How many fierces in this game have 7f of startup and a disjointed hitbox that hits as far as this does?
Chun Li's sword is like one step removed from Luke's god 2MP. Even if you can't confirm it you're still plus if you drive rush cancel it.
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Chun Li's sword is like one step removed from Luke's god 2MP. Even if you can't confirm it you're still plus if you drive rush cancel it.
Well no shit a medium would have less startup than a fierce, my point is that why would remove a key aspect of neutral-heavy character's offense entirely? Make the hitbox worse or give it more startup - whatever, but removing it entirely as an option for DRC combos is extreme.
But the option isn't removed? You can still drive rush off it, you just need to do it as a read or punish instead of just fishing for it or SA2 with no risk.
By your logic, why would you make the primary poke of a neutral heavy character worse in every aspect by making it slower or trade more instead of just hitting the problematic aspect which is risk free half screen corner carry + oki + damage off one of the best pokes in the game?
It's not risk-free, I'm not sure why you keep saying that. It has low recovery yes, but it leaves behind a sizable hurtbox that's telegraphable enough to reliably whiff punish. So much so that this MP-spamfest you imply is actually dependent on the matchup more than anything.
In a game where chars like Ken and Ryu can throw out their fierces in the neutral as a poke, I'm not seeing how her MP is any more egregious.
EDIT: But alas, none of this is confirmed, so this could all be for nothing lol
I aint judging changes in isolation. It's easy to like imagine a change only for your character and how it might feel against the unchanged cast.
I think it's impossible to actually imagine how a change turns out in complete interplay with every other change.
I think it's more interesting for speculation to spot pattern of changes that at least tells you sometimes a direction the developers are trying to achieve.
I think it's impossible to actually imagine how a change turns out in complete interplay with every other change.
I think it's more interesting for speculation to spot pattern of changes that at least tells you sometimes a direction the developers are trying to achieve.
Hopefully he can. I feel that HHS is pretty useless on season 1. By making his game plan revolve more around HHS setups and less around buttslam / headbutt in neutral, maybe they can turn Honda into a real character.
No Sim talk; they're still holding back on his no CH during float/teleport, and the return of Yoga Carpet, old Alpha frankensteiner throw super, and his sweet sweet double axehandle.
"- Headbutt: won't pass under jumping opponent = can be punished" means he's probably gonna cuz that one is rough (and after all that work of timing the teleport for this payout).
"- Headbutt: won't pass under jumping opponent = can be punished" means he's probably gonna cuz that one is rough (and after all that work of timing the teleport for this payout).
So far I see only one Manon buff listed. It's a really good one. Supposedly back heavy punch into ex renverse kick now actually combos. But this can't be all she's got… no way.
So many needed nerfs for top tiers as deserved though. Wakeup drive reversal to best throw loops will be huge.
So many needed nerfs for top tiers as deserved though. Wakeup drive reversal to best throw loops will be huge.
To be fair with regards to characters like Manon and Lily: even if nothing is changed for them specifically, the actual top tiers getting nerfed would still be a major buff for them.
I'm sure this has happened plenty of times before where a relatively untouched character suddenly climbed tiers because the meta around them changed in a way that allowed them to shine.
I'm sure this has happened plenty of times before where a relatively untouched character suddenly climbed tiers because the meta around them changed in a way that allowed them to shine.
Ohhh..that's modern controls with manual input , not classic..
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OP
They also dropped the Raging Demon name, it's just "Shun Goku Satsu" worldwide now.Looks like they changed the classic input? Doesn't show you have to hit forward anymore
Here's the original tweet with 4K images, by the way...
View: https://twitter.com/StreetFighter/status/1785731847550296481/
Chun li having a hit confirmable 7 frame button like that was absurd. Especially with her jab and the disjoint on her low forward.
I DEFIINTELY misread that...I thought it was classic mode they showed but it's modern mode with manual controls..I didn't even know you could do that
I mean it's not that good. It's another route to the optional ex ren kick to ex legs to h.legs xx level 3... But if you've already got 4hp, you can just dc into 2mp,4hp, any ren xx level 3.
It's... Not what she needs.
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All of the specials/supers can be done in Modern with classic controls and it removes the damage penalty.
I don't think people talk enough about the fact that it can be used with back or forward.
Imagine Guile if either of his command HPs was usable in both directions.
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It's specifically the color scheme from the leaked concept art.Wait, hold up!
Enhance!
Red haired Akuma in the new school style
The drive reversal buff should also help them out a bunch too.
They made the ropes black instead of brown, but it's close enough.
Looks dope as hell. Kinda glad they didn't go with the gorilla arms, ngl.
I almost never participate in tier making, but with the Big Patch upon us i wanted to take a moment to organize my own thoughts on character strength. So figure I'd share since i'm certain plenty will find it funny:
Ordered from strongest to weakest. That said, Ryu – Kimberly feel very interchangeable and close to each other and I would still think it was accurate if it was completely jumbled up. Sim I'm honestly unsure about other than I'm certain he's better than Manon. I feel like he's a character we have yet to see the ceiling for (and the same for Jamie) and could easily move up if we stayed on this patch for another year.
Anywho, feel free to roast to your hearts desire lol
Ordered from strongest to weakest. That said, Ryu – Kimberly feel very interchangeable and close to each other and I would still think it was accurate if it was completely jumbled up. Sim I'm honestly unsure about other than I'm certain he's better than Manon. I feel like he's a character we have yet to see the ceiling for (and the same for Jamie) and could easily move up if we stayed on this patch for another year.
Anywho, feel free to roast to your hearts desire lol
I have thoughts about the characters, myself. I know a couple of these will get me the side eye but it is what it is.
(This is also without taking into consideration any possible changes in S2, because we don't know how accurate any of those reports are, and doubly so we don't know how they feel as a whole)
(This is also without taking into consideration any possible changes in S2, because we don't know how accurate any of those reports are, and doubly so we don't know how they feel as a whole)
And just to clarify, I would consider Hondas potential buffs/nerfs to fall under "rework." They're realigning the character to have a different gameplan than basically Oops, All Gimmicks.
That's not what it means. Ken's S.MP s.HP target combo could be delayed as an easy frame trap. S.MP c.HP is a whole other thing.
Drive Reversal becoming a universal wake up option is pretty cool, but I checked and that shit has 20 frames of startup lol. Gonna be insanely easy to meaty with lights, mediums, and even a lot of heavies. Still better than nothing for characters without OD reversals I suppose.
I have thoughts about the characters, myself. I know a couple of these will get me the side eye but it is what it is.
(This is also without taking into consideration any possible changes in S2, because we don't know how accurate any of those reports are, and doubly so we don't know how they feel as a whole)
I think I agree with 80%: Jamie is just annoying, and not sure how he gets into the nerf category when the annoying king and queen of Blanka/Rashid are in the fine category. But those are fair reads.
I think the rework category is the real issue. Honda's right where he needs to be considering the purpose he serves (easy wins at low levels) and Gief's had better outings but he's not terrible..minor tweaks can give him a lifeline. With Manon it feels like they are cowards because of the medals which have been overblown; I think frame work and non throw/throw adjacent boost in on frame/damage would help get her in line.
But I don't know how to fix Lily: id almost strip her kit and rebuild.
So far people can't figure out if Manon has any good buffs, but AKI already rolling in some....
Friendship ended with Manon, now AKI is my temp main
Friendship ended with Manon, now AKI is my temp main
It's 100% emotional. I think his entire playstyle makes the game slightly worse just by existing. The constant "oh the move isn't over, even though the animation says it is" is just obnoxious and he's one of the few characters where you're required to learn his rekkas just to figure out when you can actually press a button. I much more enjoy fighting Blanka and Rashid.
This was the one I figured some people would highly disagree with, but I'll just say I don't think making Honda purely a noob killer is a good use of his slot, which is a really unique one that that. He's basically a wrecking ball, and I think you could do a lot with it.
I have zero idea how to fix the grapplers. I don't know how you would even approach it.
Wakeup drive reversal still gets beaten by throws so the new way it will be used is only really good to stop people looking to drive rush in with a button + throw mix or people doing throw loops by whiffing a button like jab which is the common one. I'm not great with frame data but on block it's now -6 rather than -8 so hopefully it's less punishable.
I have thoughts about the characters, myself. I know a couple of these will get me the side eye but it is what it is.
(This is also without taking into consideration any possible changes in S2, because we don't know how accurate any of those reports are, and doubly so we don't know how they feel as a whole)
There are little things that would make Manon a contender. I would gladly trade 1000 damage off the medal system to give her like...50 more points of damage on all of her normals; Turns round 1 engagements from 5 to 4, round two stays around 3 to 2. Speed up 2HP. Bigger projectile invun window for fient rev. Extend air punch hitboxes a LITTLE bit. make 2mk cancellable. Either do something with 3HK or remove it, or make it a proper slide. Give all of the ballerina kicks air properties so they can be effective against fireballs and sweeps.
None of that is unreasonable. Lily and Honda though...that's a harder assignment.
The biggest problem with Manon is that there are more than a few characters who have everything her kit offers, and more, so why are her downsides SO bad? It doesn't make sense when JP, Honda, Blanka, Aki, Sim, Cammy, Ed and Marisa can do what she does, but better.
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This translation is off. It means that Honda moves forward 2.5 times as much as before, not that the normal is 2.5 times faster.
I'm obviously biased here because I'm a Manon main but I've never agreed with the argument that she (or anyone else for that matter) needs a complete rework. Giving her a faster drive rush and at least one move safe on block would help a lot without making her broken.
In the end, people need to remember that they only have 10 minutes and they only really have access to versus mode.
There probably a bunch of stuff thats super hard to notice without training mode.
That and you obviously need the character experience.
Most players are also most likely spending most of their 10 minutes on akuma lol.
There probably a bunch of stuff thats super hard to notice without training mode.
That and you obviously need the character experience.
Most players are also most likely spending most of their 10 minutes on akuma lol.
She feels like Compromise: The Character. She has grapples but getting the grapples to be dominant and as dangerous as Giefs takes a ton of work, especially at high levels of play. She has strikes but the strikes aren't very powerful and a lot of them are big, sweeping, slow strikes you can see coming from a mile away. She's even got a split theme, being the Judo/Ballet practitioner. Which itself is a huge paradox, because Judo is 100% about economy of motion whereas Ballet is defined by grand movements.
I dunno I really think they had way too many conflicting ideas with her and it's kind of evident in how she plays.
I also agree that taking some emphasis off of her medals and giving her normals more bite (and more than the meager amount of combo routes she currently has)
I think Gief is even harder than Honda, but I'd put both Gief and Lily in the same boat. The damage of their archetypes aren't really consistent with the rest of the cast, which means balancing them could either make them complete garbage or OD as hell. Gief can be a 3 touch character with 4 actual moves. Lily looks like she was envisioned to be a "Death by 1000 paper cuts" kind of character so her moves would definitely make sense in that context, but they kinda shoehorned her into a typical damage/hit style later? I dunno, her entire thing is just weird and makes no sense. She feels like half a character.
drive reversals are throw invincible. what's the source on the wakeup version getting beaten by throws
Totally. I get the argument of, "we don't want command grapplers to be too strong" but then they made half the cast command grapplers. :🤷:
Even if they implemented every change I want, she'd still have the worst lvl 1 and lvl 2 in the game.
I definitely get the emotional Jamie response, because man I will absolutely destroy him with anyone that has a decent reaching 6 frame normal that I can abuse, but as soon as I don't, I cry and I hate him. Marisa vs Jamie drives me fucking insane. Luke vs Jamie, I'm laughing all the way to the bank.
As for how to fix the grappler characters, honestly all you have to do is work on frame data and make useless moves not useless. Like something like Gief's cr.hp.....that shit can actually hit characters trying to cross you up, but who cares since it's so slow that it's pretty much unusable. I could easily break Manon with a few changes and it would catapult her into SSS+ tier.
Honda is a different story though....
Same. Cr.MP from 7 frames to 6. Better drive rush and anything somewhat safe would go a long way.