Not really the best comparison, DQIII sold more than the original DQ did (by like twice as much in Japan), while the original Zelda was a bigger seller than A Link to the Past.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 2 | Challengers Approaching!
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I was merely giving an anecdote for the west. I know DQ is a juggernaut in Japan.
Yeah that's kind of my point. Both characters would be huge to have in Smash and would make alot of people happy even if they're kind of at opposite ends with either one appealing more to certain territories and audiences.
I'm probably the biggest proponent there is for Dragon Quest content in Smash, and while the Dragon Quest franchise is obviously a much bigger deal than the Banjo-Kazooie franchise (you'd have to be crazy to argue otherwise), that doesn't necessarily mean Erdrick is a bigger deal than Banjo, especially in the context of Smash Bros. where Banjo has been a consistently popular request since before Melee. The sales of their flagship games aren't too far off from each other either; Dragon Quest III and Banjo-Kazooie have both sold just under four million copies, and very few of those DQIII sales came from outside of Japan.
Given the character's standing within the Smash community and the historically turbulent relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft, Banjo would undoubtedly be perceived as the big "holy shit" character of this DLC cycle. Erdrick is a, "hmm, yes, well-deserved" nodding-while-golf-clapping inclusion, whereas Banjo is a streamer-breaks-his-desk-and-screams-into-a-pillow kind of pick.
Given the character's standing within the Smash community and the historically turbulent relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft, Banjo would undoubtedly be perceived as the big "holy shit" character of this DLC cycle. Erdrick is a, "hmm, yes, well-deserved" nodding-while-golf-clapping inclusion, whereas Banjo is a streamer-breaks-his-desk-and-screams-into-a-pillow kind of pick.
Banjo would also be amazing for the music alone, while Dragon Quest would likely just bring two outdated versions of tracks that directly benefit a war crime denier.
Okay after seeing this video on him I'm actually cool with Erdrick making it in to Smash. It's kind of charming how much in high regard Japan treats Dragon Quest and it got me interested in checking out these games. Of course if I had an option for a Square character it would be Sora or 2B by a country mile
Also I fucked up the Font. What's the default font for Era again?
Also I fucked up the Font. What's the default font for Era again?
Before he went off the deep end, Etika would have done that for literally any pick announced.
"Fantasy wish fulfillment" in the sense that you're exploring a mysterious fantasy world where you ROLE PLAY a hero, which FFVII was about tearing down, both with the story of Cloud Strife and his wannabe heroics and the whole specifically non-fantastical and heavily industrialized city of Midgar.
Or do you know nothing of RPGs just in general?
Nobody can deliver a compendium of IP and character diversity in a Smash-like game than Nintendo, moreso now than ever that third party reps are included. "Smash-like" is inherently part of the problem. Even ignoring the IP representation, Smash has defined and owned the formula that at this point any similar game is going to draw unfavourable comparisons. I can imagine the risk of similarity and thus lack of original passion driving development, alongside competing with a portfolio of almost 35 years worth of characters, is not the greatest incentive.
Sure, you're basically who I'm talking about. You love Dragon Quest, but you can't really pinpoint a main hero to play as in Smash the way Cloud Strife did.
But do you love Erdrick? What does Erdrick mean to you? Who is Erdrick?
Do you love Dragon Quest III because of Erdrick, or because of the world around him?
Final Fantasy VII wasn't a deconstruction of wish-fulfillment. It's not even the first time that the series has dealt with muddled or lost memories in a protagonist or a heavily industrialized, antagonistic imperial nation. Final Fantasy VII was all about doing what the series had done before, but with the power of CD-ROMs and polygons.
Y'know what when Erdrick makes it in I really hope they change his color scheme. He actually looks really cool with a more muted color scheme compared to the more garish bright yellow, purple, and blue alot of depictions have him as. Probably might be why I warmed up to him
Erdrick brings up a strong moral dilemma.
Do we accept the two tracks so that Sugiyama gets as little as possible, or do we want more tracks because Dragon Quest has good music and (if not for the composer) should have more.
Dragon Quest III, like a lot of DQ games, seem more like a series of vignettes, not all of which have a happy ending. Particularly for Erdrick, who for all their actions, are rewarded with a, at best, bittersweet ending.
Congrats on saving the world. Now you have to live in this other world for the rest of your days, separated from your mother and everyone else you ever knew. And you won't be around to protect this world from the future threats that you know are coming. Hopefully your descendants are up to the task.
Erdrick is a part of my nostalgia for the days of playing RPGs as a child. I was one of those kids that got the first game through a Nintendo Power subscription and the subsequent games always fascinated me. Dragon Quest III, with its polish, job system, giant world for its era, and the story that loops back to become a prequel to the original game is a lovely thing. Erdrick may not be my favorite RPG hero ever, but the character represents a series, and an era of RPGs, that means a lot to me.
I think the next big "Smash-like" crossover should be "Powerstone-like" instead. It's an excellent, 3D alternative that would be less likely to invite unfavorable comparisons to Smash.
It's up for Chrono Trigger to fill in the gaps.
Now we're talking. Honestly, I would much rather have Crono as our "Square Enix JRPG swordfighter designed by Akira Toriyama" (because I actually kinda have a nostalgic connection to Chrono Trigger), but I get why Erdrick is in.
Can't really agree with that, but the rest be spoilers so ach.
Cloud is a wannabe loser who sucks so much he role plays as Zack to make up for his crippling self esteem issues, failure to talk to girls, and the fact that he will never ever ever be good enough to be in SOLDIER. He breaks over the course of the story when his charade falls through until he eventually finds the strength to live as himself. He's a shy dork who's better than he thinks is when he puts actual effort into being himself and not the stoic badass he thinks he has to be.
On the surface Cloud is just another JRPG about Pursuing Thy True Self. In practice and within surrounding context FFVII is a lambasting of the notion of role playing itself.
On the surface Cloud is just another JRPG about Pursuing Thy True Self. In practice and within surrounding context FFVII is a lambasting of the notion of role playing itself.
Just to be clear I'm not shitting on Dragon Quest in Smash, I'm saying that Erdrick himself is a cipher through which you explore the world. Erdrick doesn't matter any more than any other RPG avatar does, what matters is the world he explores.
Erdrick is important for what he represents, not who he is. Which is fine. That doesn't make him any less deserving to be in Smash.
Take what Hailinel said but apply it to the N64 generation and its love affair with 3D platformers and you've got a clear enough answer as to why Banjo's supporters are so fervent.
Where the hell have you been on the internet especially in regards to Microsoft? Every year before E3 people take any small thing related to Banjo and think it's a hint that there might be something new for him at E3, and is a constant question for Microsoft's output. Not to mention is one of the most talked about 3D Platformers ever you might as well say that Mario 64 is one of the most obscure Mario games
No, no, I get that it's nostalgic for people, and that's why Banjo has so much support in Smash discussions, but it didn't define the 3D platformer. Mario 64 is right there, you know, and it's a more important and influential game.
That's the game I hear about a lot.
You can't talk about the N64 without mentioning Rare; they helped define a generation of Nintendo consoles.
I'm not in Xbox discussions because I don't have an Xbox One. I've got a PS4 and a Switch.
Maybe that's my problem.
I don't even tune into Xbox discussions either but Banjo has still been talked alot in Nintendo circles too. Hell Rare Replay is one of the most requested games from the Nintendo and Microsoft collaboration in part due to Banjo
Are we gonna talk about Goldeneye now? (If non-game characters were allowed, would we be talking about James Bond?)
It didn't define the 3D platformer because Mario got there first. Otherwise Banjo-Kazooie is one of the faces of the 64 and the generation that grew up with one.
Rare Replay didn't do too well on the Xbox One, right?
That's kinda my point. And also why I think DQ vs. Banjo isn't a fair match. DQ, and III in particular, defined a lot about turn based RPGs. Banjo did not do the same for 3D platformers because Mario got there first.
Saying Banjo doesn't matter because it isn't as big as Mario 64 is asinine.
That's like saying there's no other important RPGS other than Final Fantasy or Pokemon. No worthy FPS other than Call of Duty.
Banjo Kazooie is one of the most popular 3D platformers that still has an enduring legacy. Honestly it's a little annoying how much Banjo's popularity has been downplayed in recent discussion for like no reason.
That's like saying there's no other important RPGS other than Final Fantasy or Pokemon. No worthy FPS other than Call of Duty.
Banjo Kazooie is one of the most popular 3D platformers that still has an enduring legacy. Honestly it's a little annoying how much Banjo's popularity has been downplayed in recent discussion for like no reason.
You know, Goldeneye isn't the only Rare game in the Top 10 best-selling N64 games (DK64 is 7th, Diddy Kong Racing is 8th and Banjo-Kazooie is 10th). Even if non-video game characters were allowed, we still wouldn't get James Bond because of the actor's likeness. Sakurai put it best:
"Showing realistic guns = no good! Character uses an actor's likeness = no good! Since the original game is based on a movie, getting those rights = no good! He's Rare's property = no good! Blocked on all fronts."
Stuff like realistic guns and being Rare property doesn't matter anymore, but the others still stand.
If DQIII didn't do it someone else would have. They cribbed their ideas from Wizardry and Ultima anyway.
I'm not Marvel. I don't ask "What If?".
(I'm very proud I made this incredibly nerdy joke.)
*clap*
But more seriously, Dragon Quest was inspired by other games like Wizardry and Ultima, and arguably wouldn't exist without them.
Anyway this discussion has run its course and Ryce put it best. Regardless of Banjo leaving his mark or whatever, he's still a popular and beloved request for Smash, and at the end of the day that's all that really matters.
I want to see Erdrick because of his moveset potential and alt potential. If it was literally just default Erdrick and a generic sword moveset (both unlikely), then I wouldn't be interested at all.
As for Banjo, I'm not for or against the pair, but I have no attachment to them.
As for Banjo, I'm not for or against the pair, but I have no attachment to them.
Hey, Super Mario 64 is one of my favourite games of all time and it is definitely the far more influential and revolutionary game in comparison to Banjo-Kazooie.
But I also still want Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, because I enjoyed the original game by it's own merits and view the characters as a defining part of the N64 era (which is only represented by Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64 and Animal Crossing on the current roster; and Wolf was supposed to be a SNES character originally too).
But I also still want Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, because I enjoyed the original game by it's own merits and view the characters as a defining part of the N64 era (which is only represented by Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64 and Animal Crossing on the current roster; and Wolf was supposed to be a SNES character originally too).
It's going to be this version
This is the official remix used for all Dragon Quest spinoffs
let's just hope the stage isn't spiral mountain. give me grunty's lair or treasure trove cove plz
Yisss Treasure Trove Cove
I would also accept Click Clock Woods.
I have no attachment to Banjo-Kazooie but I recognize that it played a big part in defining an era and that if it weren't for the Rare buyout B&K would have been guaranteed for Melee. They're also one of the last white whales following Ridley and K. Rool.
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