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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,359
But how do we get people on board if we aren't vocal about it? I'm not sure there are any good solutions that aren't radical and scary at this point.

You just do it once elected and hope people don't punish you because they actually can see the positive results


Expanding the court might be one of those ask forgiveness not permission type situations
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,316
I think there will be riots over this. I really do.

There should be

So no right to privacy either huh?



Watching the US get hijacked by these nutjobs has been depressing and I'm so depressed that I feel protests won't do anything.


Ridiculous.

The George Floyd protests were the largest our country has ever had and beyond his killer being convicted, all it led to in terms of combating systemic racism is.... doubling federal funding for police.

I'm not terribly optimistic

I think it might be slightly different in that the message/actions needed to be taken would be more streamlined in terms of either reinstating roe vs wade or actually putting it into law. Not american so not sure how it works in the supreme court if they can just put it back in as it were.
 

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
This is Republicans fault. The fact that we even discuss what Dems could have done differently is why we lose. It doesn't matter. Results matter.

But that's the point of hashing it out, the dems clearly don't know how to get results. If we aren't supposed to figure out how they could have done something differently, how can we know how they should act in the future? Should we just keep on voting for them like we've done for decades and hope they finally figure it out by luck?
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,319
Maybe stop and consider that the Democratic party has been absolutely useless. If the Democrats don't want the left to complain about their actions or inactions then the Democrats need to start appealing to them. That is politics. If you want people to vote for you do things for them. Otherwise don't start whining when you don't get those votes.
And this is why you dumb fucks are gonna let this country careen into a ditch while being self-righteous about it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,201
PIT
But that's the point of hashing it out, the dems clearly don't know how to get results. If we aren't supposed to figure out how they could have done something differently, how can we know how they should act in the future? Should we just keep on voting for them like we've done for decades and hope they finally figure it out by luck?

Half the country HAS abortion access due to Democrats.
 

darkwing

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,076
I'm guessing there is no pending lower court case to challenge same sex marriages yet for the SC to overturn too?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,359
So… the plan is to vote in 5 months and not to do anything today to protect women who need abortions tomorrow? Great messaging. Really makes me feel represented.

I vote every time. I will continue to do so. It's bad messaging that dems focus on it to the exclusion of almost ever getting a win on anything.

No the point is the Dems are at high risk of losing the House (and the Senate) in 5 months and the fix to what just happened isn't going to happen overnight

Getting mad at the woman who's branch of government is not the reason roe v wade isn't codified for trying to get people to realize that November is important is lazy and uniformed
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,753
But that's the point of hashing it out, the dems clearly don't know how to get results. If we aren't supposed to figure out how they could have done something differently, how can we know how they should act in the future? Should we just keep on voting for them like we've done for decades and hope they finally figure it out by luck?
Blame the Senate and Manchin/Sinema

The Dems had two voting right bills, a minimum wage increase, Build Back Better, which also provided an extension to childcare credits.

These are real solutions. But the GOP is working in lockstep to block any Dem bills.

I feel like people don't understand how our system works.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,394
i dont understand why it stops at state rights. why stop there and not cities, neighborhoods or... individuals. (hey, look at that!)
 

Lord Fanny

Member
Apr 25, 2020
26,084
People still in this thread mocking "vote harder" as if that not exactly what white evangelicals did to get everything they wanted.

It's easier to vote harder when you have more voting power than your opponents. People aren't 'mocking' the idea of voting. They are 'mocking' the idea that voting is a strong tool, when we've seen multiple times it's limited. Imagine screaming vote harder to someone who literally can't vote because of voter suppression laws. Imagine screaming vote harder to someone who loses all their close voting stations and doesn't have easy access to a long range transportation. Imagine screaming vote harder to someone who did vote but their vote was purged due to malice or incompetence. Imagine screaming vote harder to someone who was afraid for their life because someone threaten to kill their family if they go to the polls and they have no protection. And so one and so forth.

And of course you'll say, 'Well, I don't mean those people!' but you do lol. That's the problem with most of the posts in here about voting. Everyone is assuming equal ground. The ground is not equal, and its getting less and less equal as time goes on.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,019
America is a failed experiment. A significant portion of this country needs to be wiped out so the rest of us can start over.

A disgusting and shameful period as history repeats itself due to the hateful ideologues in power.
 

ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,486
Maybe stop and consider that the Democratic party has been absolutely useless. If the Democrats don't want the left to complain about their actions or inactions then the Democrats need to start appealing to them. That is politics. If you want people to vote for you do things for them. Otherwise don't start whining when you don't get those votes.
This is one of the worst takes I have seen.
 

Hoot

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,121
And this is why you dumb fucks are gonna let this country careen into a ditch while being self-righteous about it.
People have voted tho. The leftists you hate so much organized harder to protect rights and get progressive elected where even Democrats opposed them for more conservative picks.

But yeah go off mate., you fucking dipshit
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,679
With the rights you have as a human now becoming VERY far apart between states, though, how will that work? If someone is at risk of being jailed just for being gay and flees to a blue state, will they just go "though luck" and throw them back over the state line? Or will they go "sure, we will look for this terrible criminal.... But we are busy right now so uhm, see you in 200 years or so".

The presumption is that red states wouldn't enforce it but I have no clue. If they were to issue an arrest warrant it would show up on any background check making it hard for you to find employment or get a line of credit.
 

Proxy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
213

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
i dont understand why it stops at state rights. why stop there and not cities, neighborhoods or... individuals. (hey, look at that!)

Conservatives want rights to stop at wherever their top guys are. If that's governorships, than state rights are all that matters. If there is a republican in the white house, than what's wrong with dictators?
 

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,713
Damn. This is fucking evil

America's self inflicted destruction and deterioration is insane to see. At this point, I feel like we will see a very bad outcome overall for the nation in our lifetimes. As in potential future full collapse.

This is fucking madness
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,220
I've noticed that this sentiment comes almost exclusively from people who are not women, who will not be affected by the loss of Roe v Wade. Some of these same posters were doing their best to downplay SCOTUS concerns in 2016.

Everyone who actually gives a damn knows that we need to show up and oppose Republicans at every single election. If we were already operating with that kind of resolve six years ago, this never would have happened.

For the record, no one is saying we need to "vote harder". That's an intentionally disingenuous reframing of the situation that's meant to minimize the folks who aren't yet poisoned by toxic cynicism.
I'm seeing a ton of women in their 20s saying there's no point in voting.

That will never pass judicial review when Kavanaugh calls it out here as blatantly unconstitutional, those laws will never be implemented.
I don't care what Kavanaugh says, he's a liar. The instant people try to say they can't make it illegal the SC will say they can because "state's rights."
 

Manjaster

Member
Aug 23, 2018
163
Question: can a pregnant woman go to another state that allows abortion, do the procediment and return to your home?
 

Captain_Vyse

Member
Jun 24, 2020
6,835
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.
100% this.
 

Gr8one

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,643
This is not a good take. No one deserves this fate. We will fight for it (I'll do my part at least), but that should not be the baseline for "deserving" it.

I'm upset and you're right deserved was the wrong word. Nobody deserves this, to clarify I'm very upset and we knew this was coming for the last 6 years and I'm frustrated for everyone and this has to be the breaking point for your broken political system. It can only get worse from here.
 

myojinsoga

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,036
Crazy to think of the of amount of changing minds, and winning arguments, that made Roe v. Wade possible in the first place. All that energy, all that good work. All that love and compassion, and courage and REASON, set into legal precedent and just ... torched. There can be no peace with these fucks.
 
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darkwing

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,076
The presumption is that red states wouldn't enforce it but I have no clue. If they were to issue an arrest warrant it would show up on any background check making it hard for you to find employment or get a line of credit.

this is my understanding as well, there would be a stain on your record but not enforceable