Reading this thread made me miss the Gunbuster era, people got used to shitty anime in the last 10 year.
Welcome to ResetERA.
Welcome to ResetERA.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
The Anti-Anime "Left" is Garbage and Here's Why (Don't Let the Alt-right Claim Anime +Stuff About Orientalism)
- Thread starter Iloelemen
- Start date
It's just so weird because once you start to see how prevalent it is, you REALLY get to see it. One of the most egregious examples is "Charging Magic With a Smile" where the literal premise is that a dude gets isekai'd and sent to another world and he gets a girl from an actual race of slaves. In all actuality they're just elves, but no, for some reason the author decided that their race is the slave race.
He has magical power in his weapon that is tied directly to his slaves. How does he get this? Making his slaves smile, that's literally it. The more slaves he gets, the more power he has because he can just make them smile in some way that allows him to gain more magical power. The slaves don't object to any of his orders and in fact wish to be bossed around. It's so damn stupid
Not to mention the fact that he was teleported with another guy who does nothing but beat his slave to get his magic power. Of course this is portrayed as a negative, but at no point does this dude nor the main character really question if they should have slaves at all. They just go with the flow. The main character even gets referred to as the "Slave King"
Now with Shield Hero. Since it's still airing I'll just spoiler tag this for those who haven't read the novel.
Naofumi eventually gets many more slaves. He uses the slave system for two reasons in the end.
1. He can't fully trust others unless they have a slave seal. He's betrayed and hated so much from the false accusations, the lack of people trusting him, and etc, that he just has a mental block. Think of that what you will, but that is the most direct way to put it.
2. The slave seal system is used in a way to reset their levels and strengthen them all starting from level 1. He basically makes an army of slaves that can't rebel against him to help fight the waves. He is given an area to start a village by the Queen later on so that he may do so.
I could go on, but I don't want to spoil too much of the story. And yes, the show itself is quite good, despite what some posters here might say. I do agree however that it does have issues that are worth discussing, especially events that have yet to transpire. Especially to the most hated character of the series.
1. He can't fully trust others unless they have a slave seal. He's betrayed and hated so much from the false accusations, the lack of people trusting him, and etc, that he just has a mental block. Think of that what you will, but that is the most direct way to put it.
2. The slave seal system is used in a way to reset their levels and strengthen them all starting from level 1. He basically makes an army of slaves that can't rebel against him to help fight the waves. He is given an area to start a village by the Queen later on so that he may do so.
I could go on, but I don't want to spoil too much of the story. And yes, the show itself is quite good, despite what some posters here might say. I do agree however that it does have issues that are worth discussing, especially events that have yet to transpire. Especially to the most hated character of the series.
Then there's the trash last season that was The Master of Ragnarock & Blesser of Einherjar.
Now i try to be fair for shows and give them plenty of chances. Usually 3 episodes, but this one I dropped like a rock after 2. Now according to one of my best friends who kept watching. There is a loli character who is enslaved with her mom. The MC of course saves them from getting sold. How you ask? He buys them himself despite being able to just end the slave trade as the leader of the town he's in. Not only that, the mother is eventually nowhere to be found later on because the show just has the loli slave join his damn harem of underage girls who love him simply because he's the main character. Idiocy.
There are many more out there, but it's just an issue that can be pointed out. It's done way to much.
Last edited:
Cinemax actually doesn't anymore, but Showtime actually shows some edited hardcore. I woke up to one once that was way more problematic ("Leave me alone", "I know you want it", "Oh okay") than anything in Shield Hero.
Lmao this reminds me of the time I casually implied loli shit should be outright banned on gaf & I got so many any dudes replying to defend loli trash.
And you think the way to foster change and growth is to recognize the media is harmful, and then demonize those harmed by it?
Seems like a terrible approach to me.
Being mealy mouthed about how bad this shit is and tolerating of people who enjoy it seems like a much worse approach-- basically ineffective. If people have the capacity to learn, they'll educate themselves. It's not my job to do it for them. I can't give them that desire as much as I'd want to, and maybe being firm on this issue will help more than being easily dismissable.
I'm a massive weeb but this is getting a bit excessive. People can choose the things they watch. I try to avoid works depicting what I think are problematic worldviews (which is like, 95% of the media being produced), and when I do view one, it simply means my appreciation of it lowers.
But even then, it most oftentimes is an enriching viewing experience because I keep what the creators wanted to convey as a point of reference for my perception of the world, society and myself.
This is why critical consumption of media needs to be learned and applied so that people do not become defined by what they consume.
However, I have to say that very problematic anime like Goblin Slayer being immensely popular is quite concerning. Some genres need to grow. (Dark) Fantasy needs to stop associating itself with the abuse of women and toxic masculinity.
But even then, it most oftentimes is an enriching viewing experience because I keep what the creators wanted to convey as a point of reference for my perception of the world, society and myself.
This is why critical consumption of media needs to be learned and applied so that people do not become defined by what they consume.
However, I have to say that very problematic anime like Goblin Slayer being immensely popular is quite concerning. Some genres need to grow. (Dark) Fantasy needs to stop associating itself with the abuse of women and toxic masculinity.
I do agree with you. Shield Hero does repeatedly try to beat it into you that everyone else is an idiot other than Naofumi and his entourage. It does get a bit better later on, but boy does it take a bit. The plot point in and of itself i don't find an issue with.
Plus your point about Goblin Slayer is fair as well. I don't mind that it happened, but the attention that it was given was a bit excessive. Shock value after all.
Considering I was abused in anime and furry communities as a teenager, and that the shame and guilt from that kept me from seeking help for years? Yeah, 100% serious.
Yup. Didnt realize Cinemax no longer showed that kind of thing, they did when I was a teen.
There are a LOT of people who are willing to ignore the weird creepy streak that anime has running through it because we'll get one season where not half the shows are all overhyped wank material (Like literal wank material, like some "I get my power by sucking your breasts" shit).
I find this to be a respectable viewpoint. Sometimes people will bend over backwards to defend things they really shouldn't. (While convincing themselves (or attempting to convince others) that they're not actually defending those things.)
Honestly I think non Alt right anime fans should fight first to not have insulting sexist crap like Goblin Slayer topping the charts. It's bad to generalize all anime fans but the own genre feeds a lot of toxic views with it's works and too many people just excuse it or looks elsewhere.
I've been watching anime for a very long time and one thing I've noticed in recent years is the rise of talented women working in anime.
I think this is in part due to the, albeit very slow, changes in the gender gap.
It pains me to know that for each one of them there are hundreds of women as talented working positions for which they are overqualified.
However shows like Houseki no kuni, works by Naoko Yamada, and series inspired by the Ikuhara school of anime I think are super important in the discussion because they basically show the kind of quality we can expect if anime (especially mainstream ones such as the ones mentionned itt like Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer) detaches itself from the male otaku gaze.
One thing that will forever bother me is the presence of gender essentialism in virtually ALL anime series.
Honestly I think changes are coming soon now that anime is way more mainstream. Same for video games. Nerds are no longer only boys.
For example, in the idol world, the most popular groups are now the ones who cater to both sexes, sometimes even aggressively targeting a female market.
I think this is in part due to the, albeit very slow, changes in the gender gap.
It pains me to know that for each one of them there are hundreds of women as talented working positions for which they are overqualified.
However shows like Houseki no kuni, works by Naoko Yamada, and series inspired by the Ikuhara school of anime I think are super important in the discussion because they basically show the kind of quality we can expect if anime (especially mainstream ones such as the ones mentionned itt like Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer) detaches itself from the male otaku gaze.
One thing that will forever bother me is the presence of gender essentialism in virtually ALL anime series.
Honestly I think changes are coming soon now that anime is way more mainstream. Same for video games. Nerds are no longer only boys.
For example, in the idol world, the most popular groups are now the ones who cater to both sexes, sometimes even aggressively targeting a female market.
Again. People keep ignoring what I'm saying. Look. At. The. Top. Anime. Of. The. Year. Thread. That. Was. Linked. There are so many fucking shows there that feature no bad fanservice, no oversexualization, no shitty slavery justification or other isekai overdone tropes.
Yeah, we get it, a lot of anime is a mess. A lot also isn't. Simply because you're not looking and instead listening to randos online who have such poor taste they think shite like Goblin Slayer is a masterpiece doesn't make anime all trash.
Yes. There are problems. Yes, for a while there it even was the norm- a lot of it linked to the fact anime gets paid for by merchandising sales, and whaddya know, lonely but affluent otaku like buying stuff plastered with their waifu. So it's very much an ouroboros. However... thanks to things like Crunchyroll trying to fund shows outside that norm and otaku no longer having so much income, it's no longer the majority, and we're seeing more and more good largely unproblematic shit by the year, even stuff that positively represents LGBT and people on the autism spectrum, along with dealing with issues high schoolers face in a healthy manner, for instance.
As an aside, allowing myself to critique the anime industry for a bit here... Someone earlier also brought up "this is why I only watch Shonen", which is funny because next to outright ecchi shit like harems or isekai, it's next worst. I mean look at stuff like Mineta or Roshi, or younger characters like Momo being in unfortunate outfits. Some shows like Mob Psycho are outliers to this, but the ratio of shows with fanservice for horny pubescent boys thrown in haphazardly vs those that don't in Shonen has stayed pretty much the same since, like, the late 80s at least.
Like I'll defend anime as a whole as improving but uh... Shonen definitely isn't. And I don't know how we fix that in particular, as it's made first and foremost with Japanese boys 12-18 in mind, so naturally adults won't be listened to on the subject. Nor is it something that I can see really see waning and forcing them to actually provide good stories that don't rely on cheap fanservice or sex gags.
Part of that I guess is it's less of a genre issue, more a demographics issue.
Of course, feel free to prove me wrong on that, as I'd quite like to be.
Yeah, we get it, a lot of anime is a mess. A lot also isn't. Simply because you're not looking and instead listening to randos online who have such poor taste they think shite like Goblin Slayer is a masterpiece doesn't make anime all trash.
Yes. There are problems. Yes, for a while there it even was the norm- a lot of it linked to the fact anime gets paid for by merchandising sales, and whaddya know, lonely but affluent otaku like buying stuff plastered with their waifu. So it's very much an ouroboros. However... thanks to things like Crunchyroll trying to fund shows outside that norm and otaku no longer having so much income, it's no longer the majority, and we're seeing more and more good largely unproblematic shit by the year, even stuff that positively represents LGBT and people on the autism spectrum, along with dealing with issues high schoolers face in a healthy manner, for instance.
As an aside, allowing myself to critique the anime industry for a bit here... Someone earlier also brought up "this is why I only watch Shonen", which is funny because next to outright ecchi shit like harems or isekai, it's next worst. I mean look at stuff like Mineta or Roshi, or younger characters like Momo being in unfortunate outfits. Some shows like Mob Psycho are outliers to this, but the ratio of shows with fanservice for horny pubescent boys thrown in haphazardly vs those that don't in Shonen has stayed pretty much the same since, like, the late 80s at least.
Like I'll defend anime as a whole as improving but uh... Shonen definitely isn't. And I don't know how we fix that in particular, as it's made first and foremost with Japanese boys 12-18 in mind, so naturally adults won't be listened to on the subject. Nor is it something that I can see really see waning and forcing them to actually provide good stories that don't rely on cheap fanservice or sex gags.
Part of that I guess is it's less of a genre issue, more a demographics issue.
Of course, feel free to prove me wrong on that, as I'd quite like to be.
Being firm on the harmfulness of the media, especially for young people, is important. Demonizing people is not helpful at all, especially when most of the people who consume this media were exposed to it at a young age.
I've fallen out of love with annie unless it's high quality stuff but I want to say a lot of anime hate, regardless of its content, are often extremely mean spirited and generalizes and dehumanizes people as lesser humans.
Regardless of the intent, the attacks are often vicious and I cannot support them because no one would support such criticism it you replace anime with something else. It is a blind spot because I assume it's a niche hobby and the mean spirited critiques often happen as generalizations directed at alt righters with anime avatars e
Regardless of the intent, the attacks are often vicious and I cannot support them because no one would support such criticism it you replace anime with something else. It is a blind spot because I assume it's a niche hobby and the mean spirited critiques often happen as generalizations directed at alt righters with anime avatars e
Again: It's not my job to educate people. I can't teach somebody who doesn't already have the desire to learn. I can't force someone to do something they don't already want to do. I would much rather take a hardline stance.
Since that's the third time I've had to make that point in the thread, I'm going to demonstrate by example. Here's how I know I can't force people to do something they don't already want to do.
Here's a link to my soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/starlightmasquerade
Here's a link to my webcomic: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/tyran-awakening/list?title_no=84401
Why am I linking these? Is it self promotion? Yes. But it's also a heartbreaking self own, illustrating my point, so it's fair game. :)
I don't think this is an effective strategy, either. Going around saying "x is trash media for trash people" doesn't do anything. No one reads that and thinks "why does this person think I'm trash for watching a show? I should go out of my way to understand a stranger on the internet's views on this flavor of the month anime." You don't have to be "mealy mouthed" to condemn problematic aspects of a work and not cast judgment on people who watch it.
See here's the thing. I'm casting judgement on people who enjoy a work that is a manifesto. I'm not casting judgement on people enjoying work that's simply problematic.
Who said anything about educating people? I never claimed it was your job to do anything. I just don't see the value in demonizing people because they don't realize that a lot of anime has problems, or they don't realize the extent of the harm that can be caused by some of the worst examples of the medium.
Sorry if this is getting heated, but this is a very personal subject for me. Part of the reason it took me over a decade to seek therapy was because I was so ashamed of my loved ones thinking I was disgusting that I hid the fact I was being abused from them...and thus never got help until I was an adult. You are contributing to that debilitating fear that keeps people from seeking help when you make broad, sweeping judgments like that.
On the other hand, Gunbuster was credited for being the first anime to put a large amount of effort on breast jiggle, so maybe it's to blame for all of this!
(Probably not, but Gainax had always been a decidedly otaku studio, so it occupies a similar territory. Like how Princess Maker insists on having some creepy characters or options in there even if it wouldn't take much for the game to have been 100% wholesome.)
You're extrapolating my hardline stance about Shield Hero into a hardline stance about people who enjoy problematic things. Shield Hero is a very special case where the work is very much a manifesto in my eyes. It's not merely "Problematic".
I usually take the anime avatar quip as a joke unless that poster has a history of being a dick. But yeah I agree the general 'progressive's stance against the medium for assumed blanket sexualization without actually delving into said subject gives way for supremacists to co-opt it in much the same reductionist surface-level way.
I'm gonna read the manga. Forgive me if I have a hard time buying the idea that some trite isekai bullshit is some kind of incel manifesto. That's a very tall claim.
The 13 year old kid who thinks Shield Hero is cool because of the fight scenes doesn't see or know it's a manifesto. To the average anime fan, it's not going to stick out to them as worse than most because they are so normalized to seeing similar things in anime. That's precisely WHY it's so harmful.
The 13 year old kid who thinks Shield Hero is cool shouldn't be on the internet or watching shield hero
Yeah, but they are. And most of the twenty something anime fans today watching Shield Hero were that age or younger when they were first exposed to problematic shit in anime.
If they're on the internet and watching shield hero I'm perfectly fine being a person who is visibly judging their taste in media and taking hardline stances because what's left when you don't is normalization. You keep saying how exploitative this shit is but you also seem to be against calling people out for enjoying it. I don't see how those stances harmonize
You were not criticizing their taste, you said that anyone who likes the show is a bad person. That's a judgment about their character, their being, and is very different from saying "the show you like is bad". The focus should be calling out the media, and getting people help if they need it.
Unironically calling Shield Hero an incel fantasy. Have you even watched several episodes or read very many chapters?
No. If someone called me a bad person for liking something or doing something and they had a credible argument I'd take stock. I'm fine with judging the character of a person who likes Shield Hero. If they want help they can get it elsewhere. I'm not in the business of that. That's why I keep saying it's not my job to educate people. I see it as more useful to call out the majority of fans for enabling and defending this shit. As we keep seeing in this thread. That's far more damaging and harming to people who are in this shit "innocently", and far more widespread.
Uncool person is discarded because deemed worthless. Gets slave mages. Gets super strong. Is charged with rape. Gets even stronger. Defeats the evil beautiful princess. OK with her receiving sexual assault as punishment. Is now a hero. Does more hero things.
Sounds like an incel just transposed to a fantasy isekai character.
Well don't be surprised if you don't get much if any positive reactions when you call people bad for liking a show.
What the fuck did you even just describe? That's not Shield Hero's chronology at all.
I'm not sure how many people have got through either the article or the video because both of them are pretty long. I've read the entire blog post linked in the OP, but I have not watched the video.
The authors argument is often hard to follow and some paragraphs are basically incomprehensible. Still, the author's heart is in the right place.
Here's what I understand the author to be saying (I welcome correction if someone feels I am misconstruing their argument):
The authors argument is often hard to follow and some paragraphs are basically incomprehensible. Still, the author's heart is in the right place.
Here's what I understand the author to be saying (I welcome correction if someone feels I am misconstruing their argument):
- The "Left" attacks anime because they perceive it to be either culturally backwards or weird vs western media
- This means that the only cultural space claiming anime is the Right, which is bad
- Anime is good actually
- Westerners on the "Left" develop these views of anime/Japan because they view the world through an Orientalist/Wacky Orientalist lens
- However, anime and by extension Japan, isn't homogeneous and therefore it shouldn't all be painted with the same brush
- The attacks by the "Left" are actually wrong - e.g. look at all the manga focused on queer people and LGBT issues
- The attacks by the "Left" actually strengthen the position of the Right in Japan/West by perpetuating certain harmful stereotypes (e.g. that there aren't LGBT movements in Japan, or people fighting for women's rights etc)
- We shouldn't be trying to change anime, as this implies that the West has ownership of anime, when actually it's something 'owned' by Japan
- The anime-left should organise and mobilize to help change the anime community, because leftist organizing is important at every level of society - although on the ground organizing is even better.
- I am unconvinced that the only people attacking anime are the left, it seems to come from numerous sources. These attacks have never struck me as having a particular political bent.
- The author makes no attempt to explain why anime is good, they simply state it as a fact.
- When they do cite positive examples of important themes being covered by Japanese media (in a manner superior to even Western media), they reference manga that deals with LGBT/gender identity topics. The author suggest that "anime is sure to follow" these manga, but I can't seen any evidence of this.
- The author doesn't really touch on 'problematic anime' at all - to defend or critique them. Actual discussion of specific anime is completely missing from their argument. The argument says that we shouldn't even critique anime at all, because that would be "succumbing to Orientalist traps".
This, frankly, is utter rubbish because it makes anime immune from criticism. Ridiculous. Anime can be critiqued with the same analytical tools that we use to discuss any other media - all without "succumbing to Orientalism". There a decent amount of anime that's somewhat-to-extremely problematic (some of which is airing right now) and it should be called on its bullshit. This critique is often extremely reasonable and well founded. We have to open our eyes to the problems that exist in the mediums we love in order to help them get better.
I don't care about the bad reactions I get from people who are liking an incel slavery revenge fantasy manifesto. Their opinions are basically worthless to me.
Shit. She's not a mage. Sorry. All these isekai follow the same male power fantasy model so I mixed it up with another. Shield Hero has a tanuki? partner.
Rest is correct. Did you read the manga?
Then what point are you making? All I see is you constantly proclaiming how awful people who like a show are.
Are you trying to change minds or just rant about a thing you dislike?
You don't get positive reactions if you complain mildly about misognistic media either. You get at best referred to as "too sensitive" and they insinuate you are shrill and hysterical. Noone seems to care about my fee fees when this happens, but anytime a man's actions might be considered "bad" or something they have to actually look at, then it's being too mean!!! Someone calling you bad for liking a TV show is not going to cause actual discrimination against you in real life, having women's issues constantly sidelined and not considered that important has real life affects. Like c'mon. And being nice doesn't change minds wither, it just keeps moving the line of what's acceptable til we are to the point were we are considering if it's bad to say judge a person for liking a show which seems to glorify female slavery and rape as a punishment. Wtf???
Why would any person want to like it? What value do you see in the show? Does that value make all the troublesome parts OK?
Clearly I'm not going to convince you otherwise. I've tried to explain to you how mindsets like yours were really harmful to me as kid mired deep into the darkest parts of these communities, but you either don't see the validity in my experience or simply don't agree.
Have you bothered trying to talk to people wearing a red MAGA hat? It doesn't end well.
He isn't tying to persuade Shield Hero stans because they are beyond help. Hopefully the people on the fence will see it for what it is.
I'm not aware of any isekai stuff that isn't written by an author that, based on the passages, knows anything about sex
Now I want an anime Dune parody where all the patriarchal violent dudes say "the glop must flow"
Yup, I'm sure they'll be a great influence on the industry through their co-productions. In fact, let's look at a show they're co-producing currently for an example! Oh, it's...
Shield Hero. Hmm.
So I'm not hopeful.
I think you're doing a disservice to that specific blogger by dragging them into this as a defense, when in one of the Twitter conversations (of Twitter user LossThief) regarding the gross stuff in Shield Hero that was posted in the past few pages, they're present being very critical of it and the way people defend it.
I wouldn't equate that to just "acknowledging problematic elements" when they seem much more aware of and willing to criticize the actual issues at hand than that. Which is to say I do think it is safe to judge those that just shrug off those aspects while acknowledging they're bad, instead of actually thinking about them even if you somehow enjoy some other part of the work.
Christ its a show with problematic elements and yall are starting to turn it into Mein Kampf and those who may enjoy it as Trump supporters.
I thought it was ok to like something with problematic elements.
I don't even like this show and I think everyone needs to chill.