Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Ultimately, the reality is this: if you believe a person deserves to be immediately fired without disciplinary process because they insulted someone on Twitter a single time then we're not going to be able to come to an agreement.

I mean back when everyone was doing this thing this was the most popular one and was quoted in agreement by these people.

Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation

This matches my views exactly.

This is where I'm at.

Also in full agreement.


This is something I've thought about for a while but never had the capability to explain in a manner as concise and eloquent as you have. Thank you for speaking out on this.



My thoughts are the same.

Point for point exactly where I am.

This, and it's so simple.

Most people disagree with the quick firing but acknowledge that it was a legitimate option for the company to take and acknowledged the reality that most companies would do the same if an employee behaved like that to a customer.

Is it, though? I thought the fact that she was rude in general was the heart of the issue. Or that she "falsely accused" him of sexism. Or that he's a Very Important customer, but if he weren't it would have been okay. The excuses always change.

(By the way, this is something I keep forgetting to ask in the thread: did Price even know who Deroir was? Like, could she tell him apart from some other random on Twitter?)

Dunno if she did or not, but there's a few tweets of her snapping at Jebro who is a husband of one of her coworkers and she definitely knows who he is so I think she would have responsed the same way to the response whether she knew who Deroir was or not.
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
Is it, though? I thought the fact that she was rude in general was the heart of the issue. Or that she "falsely accused" him of sexism. Or that he's a Very Important customer, but if he weren't it would have been okay. The excuses always change.

(By the way, this is something I keep forgetting to ask in the thread: did Price even know who Deroir was? Like, could she tell him apart from some other random on Twitter?)

This post has a lot to unpack, so I'll break it down.

1. Of course the "excuses" change? You're talking to a bunch of different people with different opinions? That you're pre emptively lumping my opinion in with all the others you've interacted with demonstrates engagement in bad faith and i dont appreciate it. I'm sorry, but i am not acting as one of a legion deigning to disagree with your posts en masse as you seem to believe.

2. If I bump into one of my business' clients as I walk out of a dunkin donuts and say "watch where youre going fuckwit" without realizing it's him, and he tells my boss and stops doing business with us, you bet your ass I'd get fired whether i recognized him or not. It costs the business money. And even in that very strained analogy, that's a less personal and more private interaction than twitter which all of the potential customers can see and is recorded in accuracy for posterity. It's a very permanent form of insult.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Arenanet is a subsidiary of NCSOFT, a South Korean company. South Korea is notorious for attacking feminists. There was that other major incident where two developers over there were fired just for liking a feminist page. (forget if that was NCSOFT or not)

It's possible the orders came from NCSOFT.
So now one person is veering into tin foil territory.


It is buried in this thread but Arenanet already had to deal with Jessica's GG stalkers when they hired her. They shutdown a reddit thread where they introduced her recently after hiring her.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
So now one person is veering into tin foil territory.


It is buried in this thread but Arenanet already had to deal with Jessica's GG stalkers when they hired her. They shutdown a reddit thread where they introduced her recently after hiring her.
Yeah. As I've said, NCSoft's relationship with Arenanet is extremely Lazzari Faire. I don't know exactly how the relationship works, but Arenanet basically has free reign to act as they please as long as they're profitable.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Oh I absolutely agree in that regard. Arenanet could have handled the termination differently, but all signs pointed to termination regardless.

I've dealt with many matters involving an employee attacking/insulting/etc the customer and it's always the same end result. Regardless of policy (especially too if it's at-will), if you do anything that can be of detriment to the company in a public manner, you're gonna get sacked.

An arbitrator would side with the employer on this almost 100%.
That says more about the fucked up corporate dystopia that is America than it does about what's right.

Unions now.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
That was a lot to digest. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think it's clear that terminating these two people caused a massive PR problem where there wasn't one.

If similar events occurred with two employees in my company they would have been merely written up and forced to retake the annual training to insure they understand how to converse with customers, partners, and the press (speaking from past experience). To me that's the no brainer solution to this kind of event. ArenaNet made a mountain out of a molehill.

We can talk about subtext and what not, but at the end of the day these two people were immensely rude and inappropriate on social media to a clearly well-meaning customer (and later others), and whether they like it or not they represent their company. Still, not deserving of termination.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,994
Splatlandia
That says more about the fucked up corporate dystopia that is America than it does about what's right.

Unions now.
Im saying this as someone involved with unions. Doesn't really fix this case and matter. She would have had a fair investigation and process sure, but the employer ultimately had Just Cause in this case to terminate her.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
If I bump into one of my clients as I walk out of a dunkin donuts and say "watch where youre going fuckwit" without realizing it's him, and he tells my boss and stops doing business with us, you bet your ass I'd get fired whether i recognized him or not

I hope you never work for a company that would either fire you for such a dumb reason or work with clients who would stop doing business with them over such a dumb decision -- which is the important part here: does anyone genuinely believe this was going to hurt Arenanet's bottom line? Like, were people going to mass boycott the company? All those hardcore GW2 players were going to suddenly stop playing the game because of this? Give me a break.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
That says more about the fucked up corporate dystopia that is America than it does about what's right.

Unions now.
Unions couldn't have necessarily shield her from disciplinary action for breaking agreed upon employee code of conduct for dealing with customers and partners. At best the would have slowed the process down which maybe would have been enough to let cooler heads prevail.

I hope you never work for a company that would either fire you for such a dumb reason or work with clients who would stop doing business with them over such a dumb decision -- which is the important part here: does anyone genuinely believe this was going to hurt Arenanet's bottom line? Like, were people going to mass boycott the company? All those hardcore GW2 players were going to suddenly stop playing the game because of this? Give me a break.

Maybe? Like I said before.

While there's absolutely been a harassment campaign generated by the unsavory parts of reddit and twitter towards Price, the fact of the matter is that this stuck a chord with the Guild Wars 2 community for a reason. You can dismiss reddit and twitter where it's free and can be easily flooded with bots, but even on GW2's official forum where there is a paywall and can't be flooded by bots the same way this is the most talked about issue of all time.

This isn't Rian Johnson smarting off towards some whiny Star Wars fan who hated the Last Jedi and is doing something stupid like demand Disney remake the film and remove Last Jedi from canon. This isn't someone shitting on twitter Nazi's or the Trump administration. At least among liberal circles and Resetera no one bats an eye at those.

The reason this blew up is because Deroir is an ideal fan. He's not a big hotshot youtuber twitch streamer like some people here suggest with hundreds of thousands of subscribers he has a couple thousand followers on twitch and twitter. He's no WoodenPotatoes. Almost no one in the GW2 community actually knew who he was compared to other people like WP, PeachyAurora, Jebro and Jawgeous. But he's the exact type of fan you want involved in anything you make. He's positive, passionate. He promotes the game as much as he can. And what criticisms he has come from a good place. He's not some angry relentlessly vicious fanboy like the kind drove World of Warcraft's Tseric into a mental breakdown years ago.

So when a Dev calls him an asshole, talks about how developers are only pretending to like the community, and blasts him for being sexist when he didn't do anything deserving of that label. It's going to freaking upset people. That's why the GW2 community and people on Resetera who don't think Price calling Deroir an asshat was a cool thing to do like Reflexive Muscle, BDS, BoukObelisk do think she stepped out of line.
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
I hope you never work for a company that would either fire you for such a dumb reason or work with clients who would stop doing business with them over such a dumb decision -- which is the important part here: does anyone genuinely believe this was going to hurt Arenanet's bottom line? Like, were people going to mass boycott the company? All those hardcore GW2 players were going to suddenly stop playing the game because of this? Give me a break.

Again, it was a beyond strained analogy. I was simply saying that if you cost the company more money than youre worth they'll have your ass.

As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry, can you clarify?

You dont think the business loses enough money to actually effect them when they turn away customers?

Or

You think customers can be insulted and still want to do business with the company?
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
You think customers can be insulted and still want to do business with the company?

In the case of Arenanet, yes. I do not believe for a second that anyone was actually going to cause financial damage to the company over this issue. Nobody was going to suddenly cancel their subscription and stop playing an addictive MMO they'd been playing for years because of this incident. I have seen nothing, posted in this thread or elsewhere, suggesting any sort of material damage to Arenanet would have occurred had they simply slapped her on the wrist and moved on.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,165
UK
I'm sure the counter would be it's fine because she didn't @ his widow. It's already been conceded that the streamer's thoughts may have been acceptable if he didn't address Price directly

They were fine regardless, social media isn't some sacred tome, you can @ whoever you want, and everyone is free to ignore, block or reply to any comments or tweets they receive

The reaching some people are doing to try and frame what the streamer did as wrong is absolutely insane

He did nothing wrong, she acted unprofessionally
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
In the case of Arenanet, yes. I do not believe for a second that anyone was actually going to cause financial damage to the company over this issue. Nobody was going to suddenly cancel their subscription and stop playing an addictive MMO they'd been playing for years because of this incident. I have seen nothing, posted in this thread or elsewhere, suggesting any sort of material damage to Arenanet would have occurred had they simply slapped her on the wrist and moved on.
GW2 doesn't have a subscription. It's free to play with a cash shop and boxed paid expansions. Player retention is actually a continual struggle with the game because the business model and the more casual design of the game itself actively encourages players to put down the game for long periods of time. Even the cash shop struggles a bit as hardcore players are capable of making in game gold which can be converted into cash shop currency fast enough to never have to bust out their credit card.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,165
UK
In the case of Arenanet, yes. I do not believe for a second that anyone was actually going to cause financial damage to the company over this issue. Nobody was going to suddenly cancel their subscription and stop playing an addictive MMO they'd been playing for years because of this incident. I have seen nothing, posted in this thread or elsewhere, suggesting any sort of material damage to Arenanet would have occurred had they simply slapped her on the wrist and moved on.

So because they're addicted to the game and won't quit anyway it's fine for them to be treated poorly because they're suckers who won't vote with their wallet anyway?

What a world
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
In the case of Arenanet, yes. I do not believe for a second that anyone was actually going to cause financial damage to the company over this issue. Nobody was going to suddenly cancel their subscription and stop playing an addictive MMO they'd been playing for years because of this incident. I have seen nothing, posted in this thread or elsewhere, suggesting any sort of material damage to Arenanet would have occurred had they simply slapped her on the wrist and moved on.
Okay, well at least I feel like I understand your position even if I disagree. I think there are very legitimate reasons to not insult the customers of your business in a public discussion space as far as retaining their business and engagement is concerned, and unlike you I don't believe ArenaNet to be an exception to them. Their customer base is not so different from any other group provided a service.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
GW2 doesn't have a subscription. It's free to play with a cash shop and boxed paid expansions. Player retention is actually a continual struggle with the game because the business model and the more casual design of the game itself actively encourages players to put down the game for long periods of time.

Apologies on the subscription mistake. But my point remains; the type of hardcore player who would even know who this woman is, view a subreddit about the game, and be outraged is probably not a casual player that's flitting in and out of the game.

So because they're addicted to the game and won't quit anyway it's fine for them to be treated poorly because they're suckers who won't vote with their wallet anyway?

What a world

I didn't say that. I said that historically gamers have done a very poor job of initiating and maintaining boycotts of games that they would have otherwise enjoyed playing (i.e. not Battlefront II, a game that was boycotted because it was so unplayable as to not be fun).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Apologies on the subscription mistake. But my point remains; the type of hardcore player who would even know who this woman is, view a subreddit about the game, and be outraged is probably not a casual player that's flitting in and out of the game.



I didn't say that. I said that historically gamers have done a very poor job of initiating and maintaining boycotts of games that they would have otherwise enjoyed playing (i.e. not Battlefront II, a game that was boycotted because it was so unplayable as to not be fun).
No biggie. I'm basically a GW2 monogamer at this point and it's so rare to see GW2 and Arenanet have this level of outside attention which is why I'm so passionate about this particular topic.

I don't know whether Price could have hurt the game's active population, all I know is that before she was fired you couldn't visit an in game city and not see people bickering with each other about her like are in this thread.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Businesses firing employees that harm their revenue does not a corporate dystopia make. That's what firing is there for. Unions wouldnt have protected her from that.
Valuing corporate capital over actual human beings is like, the actual definition of corporate dystopia.
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
Valuing corporate capital over actual human beings is like, the actual definition of corporate dystopia.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but the corporation's capital is distributed amongst human beings. When that capital is threatened, it also harms real humans.

Like, if you just want to pout and say that every form of capitalism is dystopic don't let me stop you, but I feel that's a bit hyperbolic an interjection in a conversation that's largely about a labor dispute.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Where have I done that? Because I argue for paying attention to the core issue here? That's a stretch for you to state. However, you do want to compare sexual assault to Twitch streamer getting some rude tweets @ them, so I'm not sure what to make of this.

As I've said, argue all you want about her professionalism, but regarding particular discourse, I'm out of that. It bears no meaning to the issue here.
The core issue is that there are 5 factions at play and you can only see 2.

You see gamergaters and your group as the only ones for social justice.

You are completely handwaving the Guild Wars community who raised awareness to Arenanet about Jessica's behavior.


You are failing to recognize that you fall on the liberal hypcrit side. Your group wants to push social change so far as to enable abuse from the current victims and downtrodden without repercussion.

The rest of us want social change but with even handed treatment of how an individual acts. We aren't interested in creating a new social order where a new group can mistreat others without repercussion.

The fifth faction is concerned way more about labor rights but the way everything played out makes it too easy to ignore the point they make which is valid but irrelevant.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
So no one should ever be let go from any job ever?

The point is that companies should not have absolute power over their employees where they can solely decide what to do with the lives of people based on a whim.

This firing of Price would be illegal in other countries with much better and healthier labor laws. It's only the US that's insanelt dystopic when it comes to workers rights and equality.
 
Oct 27, 2017
704
To me it's the sort of 'if it quacks like a duck' things. I do agree that her subtweeting him was a bad move, but that sort of "Interesting article! But have you ever considered..." is sort of a classic mansplaining playbook.

I feel like people get hyperfixated on like the most sensationalist forms of bigotry; death threats and doxxing and outright intimidation/assault. But in many ways its the small things, day in and day out, that undermine women's sense of identities. I'm not saying people need to be on their tippy toes all the time when dealing with women, but I understand why she would lash out at him like that.

Sorry for the late reply, I was out and about irl. Fair warning this is probably going to be very long wall of text and kind of rambly, so if you want to disregard it that's your prerogative.

I'm a heterosexual male and I understand that as such, I will never truly understand what it is like to be a women and be discriminated against because of that fact. The closest I will ever be able to reach an understanding of that kind of sexism is to listen the experiences of family members, friends, or even strangers and try to empathize with them, consider my own behavior, and try to make sure I act and encourage others to be supportive, conscientious, and push back against acts of sexual discrimination.

I am also a Japanese-American. You don't need to tell me that discrimination can be both overt and understated on the down low because I've experienced both. I've been on a plane and overheard one stewardess tell another that neither I, nor the gentleman next to me speak English, and ask me in that slow, drawn-out, patronizing voice Americans seem fond of adopting with foreigners, if I would like something to drink. I've also sat in a lecture hall in an institution of higher learning for a history class focused on Asian history, and have heard the professor tell a class of hundreds that while the internment of Japanese-Americans was a stain on American history, it probably wasn't as bad as they all make it out to be. My maternal grandparents were sent to those camps. And the teacher making those claims was an Asian-American.

I'm not bringing race into the discussion to downplay or obfuscate. I firmly believe that the only person you can know in a ironclad, concrete fashion is yourself. Your experiences and internal beliefs shape your perspective on the world and how you interact with it. If we're talking about discrimination, race-related issues are going to be my touchstone of conceptualizing other forms of it.

While I was still in college, I mistakenly used a male pronoun to describe a transgendered classmate during a group discussion. They politely called my attention to it, and told me their preferred pronoun, "they". After class finished I made sure to go over to them and apologized, told them that it was not done intentionally or with the intention to hurt, and that I would be more mindful of it going forward. They told me that it was no biggie, and that they appreciated the sentiment.

And here is where I can tie this back in with the topic regarding Price and Deroir (sorry for the long route to this point, but if anyone is still reading I warned you). I agree that the comments made by Deroir could be perceived as annoyingly naive or impracticable by Price, for reasons I've given in other posts. I personally don't think that his comments were "mansplaining" or purposefully condescending, though Price obviously viewed them that way. The part that I find unfortunate and regrettable is that she arguably had what could have been used as a teachable moment, with a person who obviously respected her and admired her work.

Price could have said something to the effect of, "Well we've tried similar strategies in the past, but discarded them because they're not feasible for us." She could have politely alerted Deroir to the fact that certain parts of his comment could be perceived as condescension or sexism, and seen what his response was. Would he have then continued pestering her, escalated further, backed off, or could even be receptive of it? We'll never know.

I also understand that it is not female game developers' duty to educate and engage with people about the sexism they face within the industry during all hours of the day or during national holidays. However, things still are relatively straightforward (albeit from my perspective). Price could have ignored him, or told him that while she was fresh off an AMA she really meant the comment to be rhetorical and wasn't really looking for or would respond to additional feedback. All of these are acceptable to me, and I would argue the public at large.

Instead she decided to mock Deroir, belittle him, and hold him up to her ten thousand followers as a toxic, mansplaining, pig and an emblem of everything wrong with the gaming community at large. Despite the fact that as far as I can tell, he has no prior history of sexist behavior, and that his crime - at worst - was a being an over-enthusiastic fan who assumed they might have known how to doing something better than a developer (and how many times have we all worn that hat in a gaming forum). I'm sorry, but that's not behavior I can personally support or condone.

It's tragic that she got fired over the whole exchange, though given the corporate climate in America, Arenanet's actions are not surprising to me, unexpected, or even unjustified. I disagree with the firing of Peter Fries and have said so repeatedly. It's also vexing and disheartening that Gamergaters will take this as a win and use this as a rallying cry for pushing their disgusting and exclusion-based agenda. If I were to sum it all up, it was a bit of a shit show all around.

That's it for me, I'm out and won't clutter up the thread further. If people would like to they can PM me.
 

Kaxi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
326
Poland
This firing of Price would be illegal in other countries with much better and healthier labor laws. It's only the US that's insanelt dystopic when it comes to workers rights and equality.

No, it's not just US, nor it is dystopic. If the company has Guidelines of Online Conduct for their employees, and most well-established gaming companies do, and the person in question has breached it, it's in the employer's right to fire them, it's a perfectly valid reason. Of course, they didn't have to fire them, but they could and they did.

Also, I find it funny that people who think the real offender was that guy who "told the dev how she should do her job" are the same people who tell the company how they should run its business.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,165
UK
This firing of Price would be illegal in other countries with much better and healthier labor laws. It's only the US that's insanelt dystopic when it comes to workers rights and equality.

In which country can you accept a post in a company, attack one of it's customers in public, and then keep your job?

I'm in the UK and I'd be fired for gross misconduct if I did that and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if I took the case to court
 
Feb 6, 2018
794
We live in a world where there's a targeted hate campaign against pretty much all women in the game's industry.
Yep, no one's disputing this.
They harass by email, social media, phone calls, doxxing, even contacting their employers.
Again, true. And it's terrible.
A woman who is outspoken on Twitter is rude to another person. She is then fired without seemingly no prior warnings and so is another coworker who defended her.
Seems like a reasonable turn of events.
I think it's appropriate to cut through all the smoke and mirrors that is her professionalism
Uh oh. Smoke and mirrors? This all seems pretty straightforward to this point.
and target the actual misogynistic core that drove this.
Nope, sorry you've gone completely off the rails here. The reaction to the firing is absolutely disgraceful and misogynistic but there is zero evidence that her firing had anything to do with her gender.
If you want to discuss her professionalism then go for it,
Well, it's the reason this whole thing happened....
but it's just detracting from the actual issue plaguing Price and many other women in industry.
How so? It would take a special breed of dipshit to deny that gamergate is a scourge on the industry, but the fact that it regrettably exists shouldn't shield women from appropriate consequences of their actions.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I do like the repeated usage of the word "attack" (including in Arenanet's statement) to describe Price's actions. She attacked him. Rawr. Dangerous. She's abusive.

She called a rando asshat a "rando asshat" on Twitter. Rude, yeah. Dismissive, sure. An attack? I wish I were so privileged as to consider someone calling me an ass to be an attack on my person. But of course, this overdramatic language is par for the course for gamers, who view themselves as the perpetually oppressed Rebel Alliance fighting the tyrannical Empire of feminists, politicians, corporations, and parents who want to take their games away.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,994
Splatlandia
I do like the repeated usage of the word "attack" (including in Arenanet's statement) to describe Price's actions. She attacked him. Rawr. Dangerous. She's abusive.

She called a rando asshat a "rando asshat" on Twitter. Rude, yeah. Dismissive, sure. An attack? I wish I were so privileged as to consider someone calling me an ass to be an attack on my person. But of course, this overdramatic language is par for the course for gamers, who view themselves as the perpetually oppressed Rebel Alliance fighting the tyrannical Empire of feminists, politicians, corporations, and parents who want to take their games away.

Definition of attack
attacked; attacking; attacks
transitive verb
1 : to set upon or work against forcefully
  • attack an enemy fortification
2 : to assail with unfriendly or bitter words
  • a politician verbally attacked by critics
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
Oh I absolutely agree in that regard. Arenanet could have handled the termination differently, but all signs pointed to termination regardless.

I've dealt with many matters involving an employee attacking/insulting/etc the customer and it's always the same end result. Regardless of policy (especially too if it's at-will), if you do anything that can be of detriment to the company in a public manner, you're gonna get sacked.

An arbitrator would side with the employer on this almost 100%.

10 year employee with no prior discipline? Possible but not likely. Certainly not almost 100%.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,165
UK
I do like the repeated usage of the word "attack" (including in Arenanet's statement) to describe Price's actions. She attacked him. Rawr. Dangerous. She's abusive.

She called a rando asshat a "rando asshat" on Twitter. Rude, yeah. Dismissive, sure. An attack? I wish I were so privileged as to consider someone calling me an ass to be an attack on my person. But of course, this overdramatic language is par for the course for gamers, who view themselves as the perpetually oppressed Rebel Alliance fighting the tyrannical Empire of feminists, politicians, corporations, and parents who want to take their games away.

If he was being an "asshat" or dismissive, or sexist, or antagonistic in anyway, she would still have her job

You have also now called him a "rando asshat" too, and the streamer has done nothing to deserve that, you can believe it if you like, but if you were referring to another Era member that would be a bannable offence

I really feel for the women who work in the industry, but women are still people, and people sometimes make mistakes, and she made a mistake and no amount of spin is going to change that

Did she deserve to lose her job? I don't think so, but it's understandable why a company would fire someone who insults their customers. It doesn't matter if you think asshat is a tame insult. No company in the world is going to tolerate an employee biting the hand that feeds
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
Do we have confirmation that this is true? Perhaps she has some prior history of being difficult to work with that we're unaware of? I know some of her Tweets from the past could have considered distasteful

There's been no reporting that she had any prior warnings or suspensions that I'm aware of. And if Arenanet did nothing about abravisive tweets in the past, that would only strengthen her case at arbitration.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
I'm not sure if you realize this, but the corporation's capital is distributed amongst human beings. When that capital is threatened, it also harms real humans.

Like, if you just want to pout and say that every form of capitalism is dystopic don't let me stop you, but I feel that's a bit hyperbolic an interjection in a conversation that's largely about a labor dispute.
Corporations are people, my friend.

Also, I find it funny that people who think the real offender was that guy who "told the dev how she should do her job" are the same people who tell the company how they should run its business.
Oh my fucking god. This really takes the cake for awful attempts at pro-corporate analogies.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
So if she didn't have a history she shouldn't have been fired.

But if she did have a history, she also shouldn't have been fired.

...

If she had a history of discipline then an arbitrator would be more likely to find there was just cause for her termination for the nth offense.

If she had been permitted to tweet in a similarly abrasive manner, and the employer knew and did nothing, then an arbitrator would be less likely to find just cause for termination, as her employer's actions suggested it condoned this type of behavior.

It's not all that difficult to understand.

...
 

Meccs

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
869
There is more to it than it seems at first. YongYea on Youtube has a good video on that topic that tries to bring light to what really happened. Especially her follow up rambling is what most people ignore. Everyone should watch this before defending her blindly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5sDwspGgUQ
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,994
Splatlandia
If she had a history of discipline then an arbitrator would be more likely to find there was just cause for her termination for the nth offense.

If she had been permitted to tweet in a similarly abrasive manner, and the employer knew and did nothing, then an arbitrator would be less likely to find just cause for termination, as her employer's actions suggested it condoned this type of behavior.

It's not all that difficult to understand.

...

That would be proper progressive discipline yes. But companies do have the right to escalate straght to termination depending on how egregious the offense was. Most companies are zero tolerance about anything customer facing. It all comes down to how much of a liability you are to the company. They would then weight down with her tenure and disciplinary history.

Just to interject further more, since this topic has fascinated me so much. I had a personal discussion with one of the labor relations I work with (for a major company) about the whole matter. In her words "Dear, we would have termed her in a heartbeat, policy or not"
 
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Bernd Lauert

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,812
This firing of Price would be illegal in other countries with much better and healthier labor laws. It's only the US that's insanelt dystopic when it comes to workers rights and equality.

That's very debatable. Being publically hostile toward customers is usually a very good reason for termination pretty much everywhere in the world.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
That would be proper progressive discipline yes. But companies do have the right to escalate straght to termination depending on how egregious the offense was. Most companies are zero tolerance about anything customer facing. It all comes down to how much of a liability you are to the company. They would then weight down with her tenure and disciplinary history.

Your reference to how an arbitrator would view this assumes for purposes of this hypothetical discussion that she would be covered by some kind of staturory or collectively bargained just cause provision (otherwise she would never get to an arbitrator in the first place). Company zero tolerance policy can't trump such a provision. Under the facts we know here, while an arbitrator might uphold termination, it would more likely be deemed excessive for conduct like this.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
There is more to it than it seems at first. YongYea on Youtube has a good video on that topic that tries to bring light to what really happened. Especially her follow up rambling is what most people ignore. Everyone should watch this before defending her blindly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5sDwspGgUQ
Most of The people voraciously defending her are not doing it blindly. They feel that the way women have been treated in the past is a valid reason to put any woman above any form of discipline.


Most of them willfully want to create a double standard. The rest are blinded by gamergate but they are a minority in jessica's supporters.