And this is different from Yoda? He does a couple push ups and suddenly he can fight Vader on equal terms.
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The "controversial" version of Luke in TLJ originated from George Lucas himself.
- Thread starter Deleted member 5666
- Start date
Exactly. As I've posted before. The story arc of Star Wars is pretty simple and obvious.
1st Trilogy - Fall of a Republic and the Jedi, and the rise of an Empire and the Sith. Anakin begins his journey to restore balance to The Force.
2nd Trilogy - Rebellion against the Empire and the fall of the Sith Lord who destroyed the Republic, which throws both the Rebellion and the Empire into chaos.
The effect of this is that Anakin does bring balance to the Force, but the rapid shift in the balance of power causes both the Rebellion and the Empire to become unstable. (Alternatively, one could say Anakin does not bring balance to the Force, but in fact Rey does later...)
3rd Trilogy - Infighting within both the Rebellion and the Empire cause them to be equally matched, and the war between the two actually becomes more destructive than ever. Due to this in fighting, Luke has failed to revive the Jedi. Rey finds him and eventually restores the order herself. Finn acts as the Leia in this trilogy and restores the Republic. The End.
That's the story I think Lucas was trying to tell, for a myriad of reasons he (and so far Disney) have failed to tell this story. Even though the story is obvious, it's about the journey, and there's a potential for a great journey in there.
It at least gives the decision more of a sense of legitimacy. And the fact is, George Lucas is the creator or Luke Skywalker.
I don't think it was supposed to be a joke. Just Star Wars weirdness that's always been around.
It's supposed to be weird and kinda uncomfortable (look at Rey's reaction) and it's supposed to be showing you a Luke who has moved on from his former grace and dignity as a Jedi Master and the look he gives Rey is to tell you "I don't give a fuck how sad and insignificant I look to right now, you're not going to get me to change."
Sure makes me happy. Man just more reason to laugh at the haters. Best film in the franchise imo and I loved how Luke became such a failure grump before finally realizing his purpose.
Good on George for weighing in on his own characters. Paid off perfectly and beautifully.
Good on George for weighing in on his own characters. Paid off perfectly and beautifully.
Close but not cigar.
There were his plans before ROTJ:
- "The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, 'I want to see these 3 movies.'"
- The next series film would "involve Luke Skywalker in his 30s and 40s."
- Disney would probably use Lucas's outlines as the basis for the sequel trilogy. "That's in part what Disney bought."
- The focus on Luke Skywalker's journey to becoming the premier Jedi Knight.
- "Luke's sister", who was originally meant to be a new character (set to appear in Episode VIII). However by Return of the Jedi's final script, it was decided Leia would be retconned into being Luke's sister (a plot element further set in stone by Episode III: Revenge of the Sith).
- The first appearance of the Emperor and Luke's ultimate confrontation with him. Both also fully happened within Episode VI: Return of the Jedi (Lucas originally planned for both to happen in Episode IX), that specific storyline had been planned as early as pre-1980, according to A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back producer Gary Kurtz).
- Episode VII would begin roughly 20 (or perhaps 30–40) years after the end of Return of the Jedi (according to Lucas in 1980 and 1982).
- R2-D2 and C-3PO would be the only characters who might continue through all nine films (Lucas in 1980, 1981 and 1983).
- The trilogy would deal with the rebuilding of the Republic (Lucas in 1980).
- "It's like a saga, the story of a group of people, a family" (Lucas in 1980).
- Luke would have a romantic relationship with a female love interest (Lucas in 1988).
- The main theme of the trilogy would be moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned (Lucas in 1983 and 1989).
- The key actors, Hamill as Luke Skywalker, Ford as Han Solo, and Fisher as Princess Leia, would appear, in their 60s or 70s (Lucas in 1983).
- In Episode IX, Hamill would cameo, "like Obi-Wan handing the lightsaber down to the next new hope" (according to Hamill, in 2004).
- "The other one — what happens to Luke afterward — is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I'm really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke" (Lucas in 1980).
So if GL was writing the Sequel Trilogy, it would be about Luke's kids, the themes would be about distinguishing right from wrong and justice and it would have dealt with the rebuilding of the Republic.
You wouldn't have the Republic falling again. You'd deal with the consequences of the Empire's fall.
George Lucas has been very adamant that Anakin brought balance to the Force when he ended the Sith so it likely wasn't about another Chosen One.
Well, that's obviously not true, because in virtually every scene we've seen of him -- years after Luke "read" him -- he has been conflicted.
That's cool and all, but what I find is without execution and a good script ... all the good conceptual stuff in the world means squat.
On paper, the prequels should be the most compelling story, but they are by far the worst of the Star Wars movies.
Luke really isn't the issue I have with the films. I was absolutely fine with that component. So it has no bearing for me personally.
That's what I meant. Ppl mentioning it like it's a joke.
Yeah I saw so many pointing to that scene as an example of the "unnecessary humor that didn't land." Yeah the relieved look on the animals face is supposed to be funny along with Rey being unable to look at it (I happen to think it is pretty funny), but there's a deeper context there that some are missing.
What? Again he didn't try to kill Ben. For a brief moment he thought of it.
The Jedi have been reading minds and sending people's feelings forever. It's almost like you don't know anything about Star Wars.
Also I feel like using GL to justify the decision is short-sighted since most people hate what he did in the PT too
The good thing about the prequels is that they can always be remade and make them more in like TCW too
Instantly great films if they can pull it off
Re-read my post. I'm saying Snoke made Luke think there was no light in Ben not that Ben wasn't conflicted in actuality.
That's what I was trying to say- especially those main two points.
This final trilogy is about the struggle to rebuild an empire after a massive vacuum of power develops after the fall of the Emperor.
The Rebels (as they often find themselves irl after a the defeat of an dictator) aren't quite sure what to do with all the people under their wing. Elements of the rebellion become hateful and vindictive- killing innocent people tangentially related to the Empire. The moral and philosophical problems Lucas described emerge from this. Luke becomes demoralized and fails to restart the Jedi. In fact, he creates a powerful villain (Han and Leia's son). Believing he has done more harm than good, he exiles himself.
Meanwhile, Leia has failed to restore the Republic, and elements of the rebellion are defying her to strike out on their own and exact revenge against states friendly to the Empire (Rogue One touched on this a bit... this trilogy should explore it further).
Finally, the empire is similarly conflicted, and several elements are vying for power. Phasma is one leader. Han and Leia's son (forget his name) is another, and
You ever been to a dairy?
That's how you get milk. Squeezing a cow's tits.
Star Wars fans didn't want to know how Aunt Beru got her blue milk.
People STOP posting YouTube videos from Jar Jar Abrams. He makes all these kinds of videos, first to make JJ Abrams looks worse, then to attack Kathleen Kennedy, and finally to attack Rian Johnson. It's his shtick. He edits interviews and combines parts together or cuts parts out to make it look worse.
You should have seen it during the Star Wars Celebration days.
You should have seen it during the Star Wars Celebration days.
If people need to edit and doctor up a video to validate themselves maybe their criticisms really are just bad.
That's all Jar Jar Abrams does as leader of the "fuck Disney Star Wars" brigade.
I don't think you're remembering we see actual PROGRESSION even if the training was off screen. One second Luke is struggling with simple things, next we see him he's flipping around and has shown some level of improvement. Not the same at all
Oh wow LOL! You made me laugh so hard haha! I love it.
Yes this is an awesome example of what Jar Jar Abrams does lol!
I literally just finished ESB and wanted to let you know how incredibly wrong this is.
He did not fight Vader on equal terms. Vader could have killed him at any point during their fight, but that was not his intention. He wanted Luke to join him. Even despite Vader not wanting to kill his son, Luke still just barely escaped, broken both physically and emotionally.
See, that's not what GL would do. He would've gone in on rebuilding the Republic after it's already formed.
At most you would get the Republic versus an Imperial Remnant not Rebellion versus Empire again.
And it's possible another Skywalker might have fallen but GL makes it clear that it's about Luke passing down the torch to his kids.
I don't doubt that GL would've made Kira the daughter of Luke since Lucas views Star Wars through the lens of family drama.
This too. Rey hasn't left a single fight from Kylo on the losing side, except for when he originally knocked her out to capture her, if that even counts as a "fight". Vader was completely different
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That is a chopped up video to push an agenda. Mark agreed with Rians direction in the end. Period.
I don't feel like Rey had to really struggle or progress as a character that much in TLJ, especially in comparison to all the shit Luke has to face in ESB. I wish RJ focused more on that.. like.. a LOT more.
Nah. No way would a YT video be that disingenuous just for clicks.
I bet Lucas version would have devoted more time to develop old Luke as a character so that he connects a lot more organically and his motivations make more sense than in TLJ.
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One of the few details we know from the Lucas drafts is the old characters would have LESS screentime than what they got. They boosted the roles of the original 3 than what Lucas was originally intending.
So this seems very doubtful.
Thank you, been saying that to my friend.
Does anyone have a video of Mark agreeing with Rian?
That is nice, let me know if Lucas was responsible to the whole Finn and Rose waste of time (my major gripe with the movie). Luke being a bitter old fart was one of the few interesting "twists" that I liked except for the weird attempts at humor that were out of place and kinda weird.
edit: Luke's death was kinda lame and his badass moment of taking all the AT-AT fire was negated by him just being a projection hmm..
edit 2: the milk thing was kinda weird, forgot about that.
edit: Luke's death was kinda lame and his badass moment of taking all the AT-AT fire was negated by him just being a projection hmm..
edit 2: the milk thing was kinda weird, forgot about that.
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The movie definitely could have made its point about the Jedi more clearly. Too many people still running around saying "see, the Force is supposed to be Grey guys!" The point of the movie, if anything, is more a missive to the idea of non-religious spirituality: that the world needs spirituality but that the trappings and dogma of organized religion muddle the effectiveness of spirituality (or breed the very evils that the religious claim to stand against).
Weren't Lucas's new 3 protagonists going to be teenagers or older children? I remember people gagging at the thought of that.
I'm shocked Luke is an old Jedi hermit just like the other two old Jedi hermits we met in IV, V, and VI.