You see that's diffferent...because...um
Let me redirect you to that jar jar video :p
The "controversial" version of Luke in TLJ originated from George Lucas himself.
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You see that's diffferent...because...um
Let me redirect you to that jar jar video :p
Well reading the article it seems like Luke would get back to his old self and train new Jedi during the trilogy, meaning he lasts more than one movie which I will take any day over force holograms and dying.
Not to say Luke's final act in the movie wasn't great for the story, I just don't really see why he had to go. Selfishly I want more Luke.
Wonderful, I can blame Lucas for this too then!
Kidding, as other have said and I completely agree with, it was the poor execution that was the problem, not the idea.
Kidding, as other have said and I completely agree with, it was the poor execution that was the problem, not the idea.
It depends on which interview tidbit you go by, some go back all the way 1983.
There was interview a few years back where either Hamill or Lucas made a one sentence mention that implied the original cast was supposed to be a bit more present and interact together at the beginning, and then pass the torch.
But I'm not sure if that was in the later "Luke trains a younger Kira in Episode 7" treatment or something years and years before.
George wasn't even planning to do Episode VII for the longest time. He was planning to do it (who even knows how far it would go) but then sold the company to Disney instead. Whatever plans he may had were meaningless.
OP
OP
He had to go because he takes focus away from Rey. Rey needs to go at it alone. It's Reys series.
It would be like if Luke had Obi-Wan to go along with him in ROTJ. Rey needs to face the final act of this 3 part story alone, since this entire trilogy her story.
Yeah, I guess my vision for it would be to merge Lucas's vision with what we have (which isn't ALL bad).
I entirely blame the writing. The scripts for the prequels were awful. The prequels tell a great story worth experiencing, but goddamn that writing....when one of your most memorable dialogue exchanges from a serious character is "I HATE SAND" you have a problem.
seriously what was lucas thinking with that sand shit
not only is the dialog stupid, but it doesn't do anything for the movie, does it bring anakin down to earth or something, make him seem like a normal person just shooting the breeze?
i guess it expands darth vader's character to include not liking sand, but i dont think that would have been missed
Lol, yet another strike against the film.
Pretty much. The fanboys aren't going to acknowledge that though.
He hates his origins. That's what the line is implying. He despises his homeworld. It's just that the plebeian acting and how it's framed is dumb.
It's the PT in a nutshell. The idea is good, the execution is bad.
yea wow, that is actually pretty good when you put it that way
There's also the fact Padme is waxing lyrical about how much she loves sand, while he's trying to explain his life of sand-filled torment as a child slave who would later lose his mother to SAND-people. Honestly, I have deeply mixed feelings about Star Wars as series overall, but some of the stuff with the prequels boils down to "Why is this character awkward and unlikeable? Why isn't Anakin cool?"
Yes, but you have to agree it just isn't the best dialogue. He could have just said "i dont like sand, it reminds me of tattoine" instead of "its harsh and irritating" (or whatever he says) it just sounds kinda dumb.
What's sad is a simple edit changes that scene too and dare I say makes it better as this fan edit shows (can't find a non commentary version)
But then he couldn't romantically tell Padme how she's the exact opposite of sand which is coarse and irritating. At which we're getting 4th dimensional. Was George writing bad dialogue or writing amazing dialogue featuring terrible romantic lines? WE'LL NEVER KNOW.
Completely on purpose.
Lucas states in his interviews numerous times that Anakin and Darth Vader are pathetic. And he calls Vader a goon, a flunky and a sad monster. And Anakin is a whiny and sullen teen and possessive.
So when Darth Vader takes off the mask at the end of ROTJ, that's Lucas going "look at the real Anakin, he's just a pathetic and soft old white man".
AOTC and ROTS Anakin is just a continuance of that. Anakin/Darth Vader is not cool. He's just a loser that was born special. Fascists aren't cool.
I'm glad that they continued that theme with Ben Solo.
It is now my belief that the Lucas outline for the sequel trilogy wasn't actually scrapped. It was delayed.
JJ was tasked with doing a pseudo-remake of ANH in order to reassure the general audience that these weren't more prequels. With that mission accomplished, Rian was tasked with merging that with the Lucas outline.
To me, this explains the difference in Lucas's reported response to 7 and 8. He sees what they are doing now.
JJ was tasked with doing a pseudo-remake of ANH in order to reassure the general audience that these weren't more prequels. With that mission accomplished, Rian was tasked with merging that with the Lucas outline.
To me, this explains the difference in Lucas's reported response to 7 and 8. He sees what they are doing now.
Pretty much. Luke secluding himself in and of itself isn't the problem.
I think it is kind of interesting how The Last Jedi actually brings back some of those themes that the prequels tried to explore, where it's not... swashbuckling. Given the vocal, although possibly minority outrage over TLJ, it is worth pondering that even if the Prequels were flawlessly written and acted without a single bit of bad CG to be seen, people would still have complained because the "true" Darth Vader in the mind of his creator, or co-creator depending on how you look at it, was completely different to the version they had in their heads.
Pretty much
You really can't please everyone
If you can find the fan edit without commentary I recommend you give it a watch as I can say with confidence that AOTC is watchable with the edits
TLJ does gravitas well.
And nothing wrong with mixing comedy and drama, especially in the Star Wars franchise that has always had comedy thrown in between more serious/dramatic moments.
Did Lucas write
Green Milk Scene?
Steam Iron of the First Order?
Leaking Finn scene?
Slowdown at Canto Bight?
Phasmas Short Appearance again & what happens?
Snoke Short appearance and what happens?
Rey's Parentage?
The Mirror Sequence?
The Humor in the Wrong Places?
Super Leia?
Pointless Crystal Foxes?
Force Teleconference where they can actually reach out & touch each other? (Actually that wasn't too bad)
Hologram Force Powers (Snoke)
Unusual Ending? (Again wasnt that bad but just not Star Wars-y?)
Not much of a Role for Storm Troopers?
I had more complaints in the cinema but I'm slowly forgetting them.
Not Rians best work whatsoever
Green Milk Scene?
Steam Iron of the First Order?
Leaking Finn scene?
Slowdown at Canto Bight?
Phasmas Short Appearance again & what happens?
Snoke Short appearance and what happens?
Rey's Parentage?
The Mirror Sequence?
The Humor in the Wrong Places?
Super Leia?
Pointless Crystal Foxes?
Force Teleconference where they can actually reach out & touch each other? (Actually that wasn't too bad)
Hologram Force Powers (Snoke)
Unusual Ending? (Again wasnt that bad but just not Star Wars-y?)
Not much of a Role for Storm Troopers?
I had more complaints in the cinema but I'm slowly forgetting them.
Not Rians best work whatsoever
In fairness to Rian and the whole "a Jedi doesn't give up" ... JJ already kinda cast that dye by having Luke MIA for The Force Awakens, which leads to Han dying, and before that basically lets The First Order run wild.
So I mean in a way that's really on JJ Abrams. Rian Johnson just took the setup and went with it. That's the whole thing that comes with putting Luke on an island like that ... it's hard to rationalize why the character would just go away and leave his friends and the galaxy to suffer at the hands of a new Empire.
The whole idea is against the character of Luke to begin with, but I don't know you can pin that all on Rian Johnson. In that respect I think he was more or less just working from what he was given.
So I mean in a way that's really on JJ Abrams. Rian Johnson just took the setup and went with it. That's the whole thing that comes with putting Luke on an island like that ... it's hard to rationalize why the character would just go away and leave his friends and the galaxy to suffer at the hands of a new Empire.
The whole idea is against the character of Luke to begin with, but I don't know you can pin that all on Rian Johnson. In that respect I think he was more or less just working from what he was given.
Concept versus execution.
Luke could have been revealed to be a Sith Lord for all I care.
I just want writing and execution to support the concept.
Luke could have been revealed to be a Sith Lord for all I care.
I just want writing and execution to support the concept.
Lucas said recently that his plans for the sequels involved Leia exploring the force
I mean, George's Luke almost killed his dad on an impulsive rage after Daddy suggested that maybe he'd just go and get his twin sister to turn to the Dark Side if he didn't. What we see in The Last Jedi perfectly aligns with that- Luke's reaction was one of impulse and one that he immediately discarded and felt ashamed of himself for ever having in the first place. His impulse to kill in both instances came from a place of wanting to protect his loved ones.
The whole "Luke was so out of character" argument is ridiculous to me- just as much as anyone that claims you can't possibly like TLJ if you consider yourself a true Star Wars fan. I've been watching the Original Trilogy since I was two years old. I remember a time before the prequels existed. I've watched all three of the original trilogy films more times than I can count. I adore Star Wars and I adore Luke. The Last Jedi absolutely treats him with respect and portrays him in a way that, while surprising and rather bold, does fit with the character I grew up idolizing as a child.
I can respect the idea that not everyone liked the direction Rian went with, but the arguments being made against Luke here are rather off-point imo.
This has already been hashed out in the spoiler thread, but I'll say it here as well - it may not treat Luke 'disrespectfully' insofar as it gives him a 'sound' logic to base his fears on (albeit one that's shown in flashes and never with any real substance), but if he never learned anything after saying 'no, I'm not going to give in (ever again), I'm a Jedi now' with that scene with Vader in the second death star, I'd argue that it doesn't fit with the character's growth and final 'direction' at Rotj.
At the end of the day, it admittedly boils (somewhat) down to headcanon vs sequel-direction, but IMO there's a hangup between RotJ Luke --> TFA/TLJ Luke that the new trilogy doesn't address to any significant degree (except for apparently one or two of the new canon novels)
From "The Last Jedi liberates Star Wars from its past! Nevermind the upcoming Han Solo and Obi-Wan throwbacks!" to "The Last Jedi is flawless, but if you maybe didn't like an aspect of it, that was George Lucas's idea anyway!" Oof. Hope cheebo is getting paid for this shit, otherwise it's kind of weird!
Darth Vader does it too in Episode V. Well, not a hologram, but through a video feed, but it's the same.
The rest of the things you mentioned, I actually liked about the film... most of them, at least.
Why?
How?
Hu?
Why are these things problems? And no, most fans loved or liked the movie.
The only legit one might be the last one (which I don't agree either, duh).
Throwing something over the shoulder is Earth specific now or too much?
Fishing is too much?
JFC.
I keep seeing this movie with both hardcore fans, casual fans and not fans at all. One non-fan friend liked the spiritual aspects of TLJ but said "why are some fans having problems with this? It's just like any Star Wars movie".
Obviously not meaningless because here we are in this thread.
And George always told everyone back in the 70s and 80s he wanted to do 12 films. He shortened the second and third trilogy to just one (Luke wasn't going to face the Emperor until Episode VII, and Leia was going to be the real hero) and kept the prequels.
And yet, he still held out hope that he would be able to do a third trilogy after 30 years. He told Mark Hamill and others this all the time.
The only thing that bothered me was the lightsaber toss. The only part I dislike about Luke is the last act. All I could think about was his Just for Men job, and as soon as the Lightsaber popped of course I knew there were 0 stakes.
Luke was easily one of the best parts of the film if you ask me. If anything, I wish we spent more time with him.
Did people forget what made Yoda so great? It was precisely that dynamic.
Theres a long tradition of ascetics going out into the wilderness in order to become closer to divinity and themselves, forsaking social order to better understand be natural and spiritual order.
While its ironic that Luke tries to cut himself off, it would make sense that an old Jedi master would want to be alone with the Force in old age.
I don't take issue with him being mopey and depressed or "in a dark place." I take issue with his character contemplating and being on the verge of murdering his nephew. (Who hadn't yet done anything.) Especially in light of Yoda teaching him the future was always in motion and nothing was set in stone. (A lesson he supposedly learned after Cloud City.) I guess not.
Further that the more obvious solution to Snoke corrupting Ben was maybe to... I don't know... GO STOP SNOKE. But apparently even the characters in this film understand Snoke is just a lazy plot device primarily used to further contrived plot lines and is best just to be ignored.
Additionally, everyone seems to forget that Luke just decides to look the other way and ignore the fact that his sister is about to be killed and the First Order is going to take over the galaxy. And he just shrugs it off. No wonder Rey got tired of his shit and just took off.
Further that the more obvious solution to Snoke corrupting Ben was maybe to... I don't know... GO STOP SNOKE. But apparently even the characters in this film understand Snoke is just a lazy plot device primarily used to further contrived plot lines and is best just to be ignored.
Additionally, everyone seems to forget that Luke just decides to look the other way and ignore the fact that his sister is about to be killed and the First Order is going to take over the galaxy. And he just shrugs it off. No wonder Rey got tired of his shit and just took off.
You wanted someone to cut down a Star Destroyer with just a lightsaber?
Because that was concept being thrown around in the early art
For the love of God, could someone elaborate on the steam iron joke? I can't recall it at all :/
The scene in the ship where the officers were getting their clothes ironed.