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The first draft of The Phantom Menace was damned decent, WHAT HAPPENED?
- Thread starter El Bombastico
- Start date
I love the original version of Maul's "death". It would actually fit his real death even better since his refusal to learn would lead him to being defeated the same way twice.
Amidala/Padme having a "crush" on Obi-Wan also make a lot of sense. It's like Lucas went way out of his way to suck any and every bit of humanity from the film. Maul doesn't speak much, all of Obi-Wan's real role in the film is basically replaced by Qui-Gon (who's going to die at the end of the film anyway), Padme is basically just a walking Christmas ornament.
The original Star Wars films had personality and heart, characters felt emotions, TPM is completely devoid of that.
The original Star Wars films had personality and heart, characters felt emotions, TPM is completely devoid of that.
I'm curious how old you all are cause I was 17 when it came out and was just confused right from the beginning of tpm. That confusion quickly led to disappointment and anger and I didn't bother going back to watch it in the theater. Felt the same way when they re-released the original trilogy and Jabba shows up with Han and they are doing a comedic bit. What the fuck is this horseshit? Jabba would have vaporized Han if he stepped on his tail and disrespected like that.
They were still playing ROJ at the drive in by my house in 1987 so as a kid I loved the ewoks (and I still do) but I wonder if yalls age factored into liking tpm cause we all thought it was shit. After the incredible hype train, all the books, and the cultural phenomenon that was star wars when the tpm finally came out it was a gut punch. I thought it was going to explore the clone wars in which the clones were infiltrating society and causing mayhem and palpatine was behind it. The jedi could sense who the clones were and were being eliminated for it especially after reading Timothy zahns depiction of clones.
George Lucas forgot the face of his father. Glad that you all like it but it was such a departure from the originals and just feel flat for my friends and I. The special effects especially the droid battle at the end look so bad and jarring compared to the practical effects in empire and was a major turn off too
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Then I guess Owen was a Jedi too?
https://i./i/pix/2013/06/05/article-2336377-1A28485D000005DC-83_634x460.jpg
Its the same damn clothes. Desert apparel. Lucas just got fucking lazy and went for the "Its like poetry" bullshit rather than expand some more effort and try to add something to his universe.
I was 9. I liked it well enough in theaters but by the time it came out on VHS I found myself simply fast forwarding to the Darth Maul duel. It was a couple years before I accepted that TPM was shit.
Yeah, they were desert clothes chosen originally for Ben, they never thought they'd carry those over to the Jedi. They did at least differentiate by giving them an overtunic similar to what Owen is wearing here but in various shades of brown... and black as Anakin wore. Supposedly many people would only identify a Jedi by the hilt hanging from their hips so maybe that kind of clothing is popular throughout the galaxy? I don't know. It's stupid but it did give the Jedi a distinct look, even if the overtunic would be hilariously unwieldy in any kind of fight (as Liam Neeson discovered in Phantom Menace).
Some of the concept art I like:
Alec Guinness-style Obi-Wan:
Jar Jar with clothes:
Jar Jar with badass clothes:
Padmé looking straight out of a Moebius-designed world:
Alec Guinness-style Obi-Wan:
Jar Jar with clothes:
Jar Jar with badass clothes:
Padmé looking straight out of a Moebius-designed world:
No again, Jar Jar. Yousa goin' to the bosses, yousa in big doo-doo this time.
I recommend this:
The prequels are shit, but Maul is such a damn good design. Should have been the villain of the trilogy.
Yep. The biggest problems with the prequels aren't the scripts but the direction. All those good actors turning in what felt like the first take for each scene.
Unproduced stories are always going to seem better for bad films because you've removed the actual craft out of the equation and substituted 'what ifs.'
You are so…beautiful.
It's only because I'm so in love.
NO. No, it's because I'm so in love with YOU.
Then love has blinded you?
Well…that's not exactly what I meant.
But it's probably true.
It's only because I'm so in love.
NO. No, it's because I'm so in love with YOU.
Then love has blinded you?
Well…that's not exactly what I meant.
But it's probably true.
My mouth was empty, but I still spit my drink all over the place.
The '94 script sounds much improved. Playing "How Could It Have Been Better" with the Prequel Trilogy is always fun.
Anakin should have been older, and they should have had a better inciting force than the whole Trade Federation garbage. Padme shouldn't have been a Queen either, too limiting for her character, at least as portrayed.
Anakin should have been older, and they should have had a better inciting force than the whole Trade Federation garbage. Padme shouldn't have been a Queen either, too limiting for her character, at least as portrayed.
I was 10, brother was 17 and my dad was 40s and a big star wars fan of the OT. I still liked empire more as a kid. My brother went into the hype train of "preinterenet" theorizing about how we would get from 1 to 4 because he like it more than the others.
My dad on the other hand liked it but did not like Obi-Wan, and never really did in the PT. He always felt that Qui-gon was a lot more similar to Obi-Wan with how he didn't obey the rules, and in the OT Obi-Wan was lieing/twisting things. So he liked that his master shared qualities, but never felt like PT matched OT. So maybe he would like this version better?
As a 7 or 8 year when I first saw rotj... I always hated those stupid ewoks. I thought it was the dumbest thing that the empire couldn't handle them. My dad thought it was fine though, and symbolic.
I really wish they had made Maul the only apprentice in the prequels and had Vader replace him. His design is one of the only things I liked about the prequels, and Dooku and Grievous as villains were so...awful.
This draft sounds bad, but it sounds like a vast improvement over what we got.
This draft sounds bad, but it sounds like a vast improvement over what we got.
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They both ooze with potential.. They just never touch on it. Which makes the Era very interesting I think.. Movies are hurt by it though.
The Korn, Slipknot crossover we've all been waiting for.darth maul concept art.
I was around the same age and I went to the cinema twice to watch it. Pod racing was the coolest thing ever.
Some of the concept art I like:
Alec Guinness-style Obi-Wan:
I know this is Concept Art but the face they drew for Obi wan here looks more like the actor who plays Maul's Voice Peter Serafinowicz.
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It funny how sometimes your first attempt at something is decent enough and attempts to make it better just make things worse. I almost sympathize with Lucas because similar things happened to me when I wrote essays and research papers. Difference is I had people helping me out and when they gave advice, I listened to them.
Writing screenplays (or anything for that matter, I just specify screenplays as that's my area of work as well) is just the craziest process. What you start with very rarely ever resembles what you finish with. That all said, this evolution was a case of Lucas having "yes men" at his beck and call and once he saw the opportunity to further expand the Star Wars franchise to more demographics by making it more "cartoon-like" family fair, he went as far out to that island as he could swim and nobody ever tried to reign him back in until it was too late.
I've always considered the infamous "Jar Jar is the key to all of this..." bit to be in reference to this incarnation of the character, Jar Jar was really originally designed as a means to deliver a message of racial unity and strength amidst oppression, easily the most poignant material in the franchise if it had actually materialized. Instead though, yeah, he's a racist caricature reduced to slapstick comedy, baby talk and "comedic" relief in a story that doesn't warrant that kind of material whatsoever. Lucas saw the commercial potential in watering down everything to appeal to the lowest common denominator and, as the still insanely lucrative Star Wars merchandise line shows, he succeeded even at the expense of not only this film but the trilogy as a whole.
It's all a tragedy, really. It's not a story Lucas would tell you...
I've always considered the infamous "Jar Jar is the key to all of this..." bit to be in reference to this incarnation of the character, Jar Jar was really originally designed as a means to deliver a message of racial unity and strength amidst oppression, easily the most poignant material in the franchise if it had actually materialized. Instead though, yeah, he's a racist caricature reduced to slapstick comedy, baby talk and "comedic" relief in a story that doesn't warrant that kind of material whatsoever. Lucas saw the commercial potential in watering down everything to appeal to the lowest common denominator and, as the still insanely lucrative Star Wars merchandise line shows, he succeeded even at the expense of not only this film but the trilogy as a whole.
It's all a tragedy, really. It's not a story Lucas would tell you...
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I always felt an Older anakin with Obi-wan around Qui-Gon's age would fit the timeline and the Obi-Wan's appearance much better.
You can start off having established they were already 'good friends'. Cut out all the kid stuff.
Have Qui-Gon be Obi-Wan's FORMER master who believes Anakin is the chosen one, while Obi-wan believes Anakin to be not ready, impulsive (all the same stuff in the PT) but still considers him a great friend. The dynamic between Qui Gon/Obi-Wan would be the central focus of the 1st movie with Qui Gon dying like in TPM and Obi-Wan feeling obliged to go through with Qui Gon's wishes despite his misgivings.
This would give Obi-wan's sense of regret of losing a great friend weight in the OT, and would retcon Vader's creation as having been kickstarted by the Jedi themselves, which is sort of already inplace in the PT anyways, but handled poorly.
You can start off having established they were already 'good friends'. Cut out all the kid stuff.
Have Qui-Gon be Obi-Wan's FORMER master who believes Anakin is the chosen one, while Obi-wan believes Anakin to be not ready, impulsive (all the same stuff in the PT) but still considers him a great friend. The dynamic between Qui Gon/Obi-Wan would be the central focus of the 1st movie with Qui Gon dying like in TPM and Obi-Wan feeling obliged to go through with Qui Gon's wishes despite his misgivings.
This would give Obi-wan's sense of regret of losing a great friend weight in the OT, and would retcon Vader's creation as having been kickstarted by the Jedi themselves, which is sort of already inplace in the PT anyways, but handled poorly.
I still enjoy the prequels. They swung and missed a lot, but they are still endearing to me. I love a lot of things about it, especially the whole "there's a shit ton of Jedi" stuff. The "last jedi in space" setting from the originals worked well, but the sequel doubling down on "no last jedi in space again" didn't super work for me. Plus I liked some dumb shit like Yoda being Kingdom Hearts Mickey Mouse. It was fucking hilarious and I loved it 10/10
The prequels had issues and I'm ready to admit anytime that any of the sequels are technically better made movies than any of the prequels. Yet end of the day I have zero interest in rewatching the sequels but I'm down for rewatching Episode 3 once in a while and I couldn't even tell you why the fuck that is lol
The prequels had issues and I'm ready to admit anytime that any of the sequels are technically better made movies than any of the prequels. Yet end of the day I have zero interest in rewatching the sequels but I'm down for rewatching Episode 3 once in a while and I couldn't even tell you why the fuck that is lol
It's handled fantastically in Clone Wars. Anakin is this possessive, shor-tempered wildcard that rarely ever listens to the Council and is in turn distrusted by them. Yoda knew what Anakin needed to learn, to let go of the things he fears losing, and entrusted a padawan to him.
It even seemed to work. Ahsoka gave him focus, gave him purpose. They worked together, learned together and grew together. Kinda backfired horribly, though, because the Jedi threw her under a bus and she chose to leave the Order because of it. If they couldn't trust her, how could she trust them? So because the Jedi pushed her away, Anakin once again felt what it meant to lose someone he cares deeply about.
Qui-Gon's personality always made more sense for Obi-Wan. You could tell there was some weird shifting that happened with that.
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Lucas literally just transferred Obi-wan's personality over to Qui-gon for TPM, without even bothering to give Obi-wan a new one. Its why Obi-wan seems to barely say or do anything for most of the movie until the climax. Hell, him MEETING Anakin should've been the most important, groundbreaking scene in the whole movie.
Instead, Anakin just gives him a fucking handshake while Obi-wan looks bored as ever.
I think this is spot on! Lucas got greedy with Star Wars and pretty much wreck the franchise in an attempt to wring as much money out of it as possible. Yet, he still seems to be a bit bitter about people's opinion of the prequels, and the changes Disney made.
I think we are talking about different thing here. My point is it is hard to judge material based on first draft, because it is expected to be bad. The real result is usually seen after first or second revision
The coming out of lightspeed right before the planet's surface is exactly what Han i ms somehow capable of doing in VII. The one part of the movie I laught at every time I watch it.
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But in this case the opposite seems to have happened: Lucas had a solid foundation to built on with this first draft, but threw it out for...what? Merchendising? Dumbing down the movie for the kids?
They wanted to appeal to adult fans, kids and sell toys. Adults get the "serious" but political neutral plot (taxes and councils) while kids get the rest (insert c3po and r2d2 to make merchandising great again). A too political movie could have been unpopular to soccer moms. They wanted their cake and eat it too.
I bet they will recycle a bunch of these old designs in The Mandalorian and the Cassian and Obi-Wan TV shows.
At least the Jar Jar changes probably had a lot to do with CG animation not being advanced enough to convincingly realise a complex and subtle character. Hell it may not be advanced enough today.
Making Jar Jar a Buster Keaton type with large exaggerated slapstick movement is much less demanding on animators.
At the time ILM was quoted saying the subtle movements were by far the most difficult for them to get right.
Making Jar Jar a Buster Keaton type with large exaggerated slapstick movement is much less demanding on animators.
At the time ILM was quoted saying the subtle movements were by far the most difficult for them to get right.