Laughton

Member
Apr 19, 2022
1,204
its illustrative, not explicitly that pancake mix. Some people will have eaten a critical mass of infected stuff. Maybe Joel/Tommy/Sarah ate some too but the only parts we see are them managing by happenstance to avoid flour.

Not everyone got infected by flour but enough to trigger what came next.
That just goes back to the main "problem" I had with how it was done. The infection had to be both extremely fast and extremely slow. Slow because it had to spread far and wide before being detected, but fast to make so many people go berserk on the same day. Any "you had to eat X amount" stuff would have meant there should have been fewer cases popping up at the start as some of course get there real fast by going ham on cookies or whatever. The long shelf life of flour and sugar basically guarantees this would not go global because a bad batch would not have time to spread.

Of course we don't really know how things are outside North America and probably Indonesia, but even spreading across America is sketchy. The pandemic having a specific day when things went crazy basically requires a smart mushroom, and I don't think that was the intention.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,987
That just goes back to the main "problem" I had with how it was done. The infection had to be both extremely fast and extremely slow. Slow because it had to spread far and wide before being detected, but fast to make so many people go berserk on the same day. Any "you had to eat X amount" stuff would have meant there should have been fewer cases popping up at the start as some of course get there real fast by going ham on cookies or whatever. The long shelf life of flour and sugar basically guarantees this would not go global because a bad batch would not have time to spread.
I think you're underestimating how many products use flour or sugar. Especially in restaurants and fast-food places. It's not really crazy to assume that most people eat fried food (especially in the US) or saucy meals (which often use flour) + cookies, cakes and bread at home.
I also wouldn't assume that everyone turns at the same rate, which was insinuated pretty early on, when you saw the boy's arm twitching at school, the grandma being already turning when Sarah was looking for DVDs or Tommy talking about someone being crazy at the bar and the prison being a madhouse.
Also the news about Jakarta was probably days after the first infected was found. The military guy talked about the first infected being killed a few days? ago, but 14 other infected running away. They probably asked for different opinions on the matter to get a better idea of what this fungus sickness might be before it got leaked (or officially stated) to the world.
Honestly, after the whole COVID pandemic, I've learned that certain things don't make any logical sense in terms of infection rate and how people caught it. I've unknowingly hung out with people who were positive for days in small-ish rooms and didn't get it, but then caught it by talking for 2min. with someone in a park who turned out to be positive.
I wouldn't think too much about the way it spreads, because it doesn't always make sense in reality either.
 

brahim

Alt Account
Member
Oct 24, 2022
480
That just goes back to the main "problem" I had with how it was done. The infection had to be both extremely fast and extremely slow. Slow because it had to spread far and wide before being detected, but fast to make so many people go berserk on the same day. Any "you had to eat X amount" stuff would have meant there should have been fewer cases popping up at the start as some of course get there real fast by going ham on cookies or whatever. The long shelf life of flour and sugar basically guarantees this would not go global because a bad batch would not have time to spread.

Of course we don't really know how things are outside North America and probably Indonesia, but even spreading across America is sketchy. The pandemic having a specific day when things went crazy basically requires a smart mushroom, and I don't think that was the intention.

This isn't a scientific documentary about the spread of fungi. It's a zombie show, it's not meant to be analysed and disected for scientific accuracy
 

brahim

Alt Account
Member
Oct 24, 2022
480
I wish at some point, wether in the game or in the show, we get some expansion on the lore. I wanna know what goes on in the world. How many QZ's are in the US, how powerful is Fedra really, how are other countries' doing, is there any place where a functioning government and civilization is still in place?
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,784
I wish at some point, wether in the game or in the show, we get some expansion on the lore. I wanna know what goes on in the world. How many QZ's are in the US, how powerful is Fedra really, how are other countries' doing, is there any place where a functioning government and civilization is still in place?

Factions is probably the best shot at that. The story we know of TLoU right now revolves around Ellie. But Factions is going to have a new cast. So it opens things up for them to expand on the lore.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,448
That just goes back to the main "problem" I had with how it was done. The infection had to be both extremely fast and extremely slow. Slow because it had to spread far and wide before being detected, but fast to make so many people go berserk on the same day. Any "you had to eat X amount" stuff would have meant there should have been fewer cases popping up at the start as some of course get there real fast by going ham on cookies or whatever. The long shelf life of flour and sugar basically guarantees this would not go global because a bad batch would not have time to spread.

Of course we don't really know how things are outside North America and probably Indonesia, but even spreading across America is sketchy. The pandemic having a specific day when things went crazy basically requires a smart mushroom, and I don't think that was the intention.
In the games it's not just a sudden thing, people who get sick would be at the hospitals to the point they would start overflowing and people where just being left to turn as it got worst. I don't know if there's a hard timeline of events though, but it was long enough for contamination zones to be set up in the hospital, so was a slow build before it all went to complete shit, that couldn't be contained at all.

Show is probably the same and I definitely expect it to come up if/when they do the Rat King.
 

Laughton

Member
Apr 19, 2022
1,204
I think you're underestimating how many products use flour or sugar. Especially in restaurants and fast-food places. It's not really crazy to assume that most people eat fried food (especially in the US) or saucy meals (which often use flour) + cookies, cakes and bread at home.

I don't think I am. Of course flour and sugar are everywhere, but based on the admittedly limited info we have, there was a single origin for the infection. It's not like the fungus is going to independently mutate at the same time around the world. The products and countries that are going to use the sugar or flour from that one place isn't going to cover the globe. Don't think it would even cover America. Some places would be hit hard, others would probably only have isolated incidents that would be contained. Just bitey boys without spores isn't enough.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,987
I don't think I am. Of course flour and sugar are everywhere, but based on the admittedly limited info we have, there was a single origin for the infection. It's not like the fungus is going to independently mutate at the same time around the world. The products and countries that are going to use the sugar or flour from that one place isn't going to cover the globe. Don't think it would even cover America. Some places would be hit hard, others would probably only have isolated incidents that would be contained. Just bitey boys without spores isn't enough.
Jakarta is the 3rd biggest producer and provider of flour/wheat in the world. So it is definitely safe to assume that it can cover most of the world.
And as you said, there is limited information. We don't know about the infection rate in Europe or Africa. Only the US and Jakarta. The mutated cordyceps could have been in their wheat or flour for weeks before it got shipped to different places and then consumed. An interesting fact is also that wheat from Jakarta is also sent to other countries like China, because of its high quality, which are then used it to produce their own flour.
Infected then spreading the fungi more aggressively to smaller towns would do the rest.
So while we don't have enough information either way, I don't really see how the spread of infection could seem impossible or hard to believe. It took Covid 2 weeks to go everywhere and that also had one specific place of origin. And the cordyceps is definitely more aggressive than any virus we've had in real life.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,032
I continue to find Ellie in the show to be pretty off putting. Maybe I'm holding on too much to the Ellie from the game. She just feels so messed up. Most of her weird behavior was at least somehow explainable in the previous episodes, but her sheer excitement after Joel gives her the gun (after just shooting someone in the back) was just extremely weird. It wasn't a 'I can finally defend myself'-excitement or a 'Joel finally trusts me with a gun'-excitement. It was a 'I have a motherfucking gun and I feel powerful'-excitement.

I think it's mostly down due to the performance (and honestly not having too much time with Ellie so far), because I think that they way they've written her so far is probably pretty similar to the game. But it's the directing, the performance, and how it all slots into the show that make her just so... strange.
I think it was more implying how she craves a parental-figure. Joel showing her the gun is a bonding moment, and she wants to be like him, strong, confident, in control, not just a 'package' to be sent around. She wants to be accepted and not feel like an outcast.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,189
I wish they hadn't bothered to come up with an explanation for the virus. I have never cared about how it works or where it came from. It's an unimportant detail imo.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,817
I wish they hadn't bothered to come up with an explanation for the virus. I have never cared about how it works or where it came from. It's an unimportant detail imo.
Fungus, not virus. Ultimately it was the initial inspiration for the game. The creators found out about a fungus that zombifies insects and it went from there.
 
I think it was more implying how she craves a parental-figure. Joel showing her the gun is a bonding moment, and she wants to be like him, strong, confident, in control, not just a 'package' to be sent around. She wants to be accepted and not feel like an outcast.
This! The writers, at-least to me, definitely feel like they are going for the angle that Ellie sees Joel as the cool adult that is badass & she is the little kid that wants to be that way. Think of it of how alot kids in the real world sometimes worship superheroes or fictional characters and want to imitate them. Or in my case, as a wee lass, I wanted to be like my older cousin.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Fungus, not virus. Ultimately it was the initial inspiration for the game. The creators found out about a fungus that zombifies insects and it went from there.
I think the fungus is incredibly cool visually, and unique as far as zombie exposition goes, but I also think that working out the specific mechanics of how an outbreak could happen across the US (and maybe the world) in such short timeframe is not a very worthwhile endeavor. I just tell myself that the spores have some kind of incubation period and for whatever reason, they "matured" and became infectious at around the same time in pantries and cabinets across the world, and that Joel probably doesn't have all the details anyway. All that is good enough for my head canon.
 
Last edited:

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,150
I think it was more implying how she craves a parental-figure. Joel showing her the gun is a bonding moment, and she wants to be like him, strong, confident, in control, not just a 'package' to be sent around. She wants to be accepted and not feel like an outcast.
Oh, that is for sure the intent I'm guessing. I think it's probably great on paper. But I think the performance and directing don't back it up. Not to mention that the way it slots in the show we just go to strange moment with Ellie to strange mmoment with Ellie.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,817
I think the fungus is incredibly cool visually, and unique as far as zombie exposition goes, but I also think that working out the specific mechanics of how an outbreak could happen across the US (and maybe the world) in such short timeframe is not a very worthwhile endeavor. I just tell myself that the spores have some kind of incubation period and for whatever reason, they "matured" and became infectious at around the same time in pantries and cabinets across the world, and that Joel probably doesn't have all the details anyway. All that is good enough for my head canon.
Pretty much, yeah. There's plenty of suspension of disbelief already involved in any zombie fiction anyway.
 

Paganmoon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,586
I don't get the "not scary enough" comments about Kathleen, she's not supposed to be "scary" in that sense, is she?

Also, jfc at that Bryan scene, very well done to make you feel that much empathy for an aggressor or "villain". Seen those sorts of scenes before, but can't recall any executed like this.

A wise man once said: "You can never have too many knives"
Yeah well, what you lack in fingers you have to make up for with knives.
 
OP
OP
Lukar

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,740
Figure I should reshare this PSA regarding spoilers for the early episode:

HBO has announced that episode five will be premiering on HBO Max 48 hours earlier than the usual time, meaning it will be available to watch on Friday, February 10th at 9:00 PM Eastern / 6:00 PM Pacific). It's also looking like many international services will be releasing episode five early to match HBO Max. As a result, spoiler tags won't be required when live posting about the episode when it airs on Friday (or Saturday, if you're outside the US).

At the time I've written this post, in regards to services that have confirmed that they will release the episode early, I've seen Sky TV, Crave, Binge, and U-NEXT, as well as HBO Max outside of the US. However, there may be some that don't offer the episode early-- it's looking likely that regular HBO won't be airing the episode in the US until the usual time on Sunday, and I also haven't seen services such as Disney+ Hotstar or Neon confirm either way. You'll want to check with the service you watch the show on to confirm when they're releasing the episode.

tl;dr: The spoiler policy for episode five will be the same as usual (no spoiler tags needed when posting while watching, or anytime after) once it becomes available on Friday. Check with your service provider to confirm if they'll be airing it early. If they aren't, then you'll probably want to avoid this thread beginning at the time below until you watch the episode yourself.

 

psynergyadept

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,913
I probably won't be able to watch the latest until Monday so I'm going have to be dodging spoilers left and right!!!
 

Nothus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
984
Anyone in the UK struggling to find episode 5 on the TV listings? It's still showing as airing Sunday night / Monday morning even though that's not the case?
 

TrojanAg

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,581
I think this episode is going be tough to watch if it follows the game, which I imagine that it mostly will.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,032
35 minutes to not-episode for me because Canada services suck. 🥲 They're still showing episode 5 as Sunday with today being a repeat of 4.
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,480
So I rewatched Monsters Inc today, and I have decided to Joel/Ellie relationship is the same as Sulley/Boo

100% identical in every way
 
Episode 5: Endure and Survive
OP
OP
Lukar

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,740
oeHWpVP.png


The fifth episode is now live on HBO Max!

Title: Endure and Survive
Directed by: Jeremy Webb
Written by: Craig Mazin
Runtime: 61 minutes

Episode Synopsis said:
While attempting to evade the rebels, Joel and Ellie cross paths with the most wanted man in Kansas City. Kathleen continues her hunt.

As a reminder, this episode is premiering 48 hours earlier than usual on HBO Max and various other services around the world. This episode is not airing early on regular HBO; however, the spoiler policy is the same as usual for the early airing. If you are not watching this episode on a service that is airing it early, please avoid this thread until you watch the episode, as there will be unmarked spoilers for it below this post. The episode will air on regular HBO on , and episode six will air on all services on . Beginning with episode six, the series will resume airing at the usual time.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Lukar

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,740
Damn this is brutal. Kathleen is ruthless as hell
 
OP
OP
Lukar

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,740
Man, I am not ready for Sam and Henry to die (assuming they still do). I'm loving their relationship in the show.