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Final predictions?

  • 95-99 (Same as Uncharted 2, The Last of Us)

    Votes: 639 46.6%
  • 90-94 (Same as Uncharted 4, Uncharted 3)

    Votes: 599 43.7%
  • 85-89

    Votes: 90 6.6%
  • 80-84

    Votes: 14 1.0%
  • 75-79

    Votes: 4 0.3%
  • <75

    Votes: 24 1.8%

  • Total voters
    1,370
  • Poll closed .

CenaToon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,368
I mean... you can always put in your review "7/10 ... but after the embargo we will update the review with the aspects that we can't talk now but are the reasons we give it that note"

That even could give those people more ad revenue than that twitter rants lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,247
I don't think anyone is stopping them from saying that they didn't like the story for x reasons, or deducting a point or so.

Can they really not explain it without spoiling the game?
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
wvUlUje.png


It's been posted before and honestly I don't think it's that restrictive.
Uh ... Are we ignoring the redacteds? Because we literally don't know how restrictive they are. You're just assuming it can't be that bad.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,809
Canada
This has been repeated multiple times - releasing a review significantly after embargo (especially for one of the biggest releases of this year) is monumentally detrimental to your review getting viewed at all.

Right, I addressed this in a later post though.

Sure, but then they have no right to complain if they are prioritizing their own financial gain over whatever they view as reviewing TLOUP2 with "integrity".

I've seen the spoilers for this game, I completely understand the restrictions of the embargo. It goes in directions no one unspoiled will expect, and that content forms significant portions of the mid and late game.
 

Oliver James

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,927
I for one don't want to be spoiled on a narrative heavy game. Telltale titles, Until Dawn, I managed to avoid spoilers for Heavy Rain years after it came out.

These games were reviewed hopefully without ruining the experiences for those will play it.

But I guess if almost 70% of the game's setpieces and story is something you cannot talk about, I can see how that's frustrating especially if you have a lot to say.

I guess the options are:

1. Post a review that respects the embargo early and call it at that
2. Post a review in progress and put your score on the final review
3. Post your full review when the embargo ends
4. Make it two parts, one before and one after the embargo

But I'm not sure how the way the journalists and their outlets work, so I'm going to defer on their own experience on why this and that could not be done.
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
I can see frustration/annoyance from a reviewers perspective. You want to say what you had issues with, but you're not allowed. You don't want to vaguely allude to it without explaining because that feels disingenuous. You might want to pass on reviewing it until you can go more in depth, but your boss wants clicks. But I still think that might be a niche situation for people to end up in.
 

BoJack

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
3,502
I love the fact that they restricted the reviews. Cuz I don't want to be spoiled before playing it. Update your review after release date or whenever you are able to. You can complain, but lots of people, including the creators of the game, like it this way.
 

alexbull_uk

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,924
UK
This has been repeated multiple times - releasing a review significantly after embargo (especially for one of the biggest releases of this year) is monumentally detrimental to your review getting viewed at all.

So write a review and score it however you feel is fair, with a note that you'll update it on launch to describe in detail any elements you wanted to discuss but couldn't. Hell, you'd get double the clicks so seems like a win-win to me?

Uh ... Are we ignoring the redacteds? Because we literally don't know how restrictive they are. You're just assuming it can't be that bad.

One of them is clearly just a point in time during the story and the other seems like something you can put together pretty easily, no?
 
May 17, 2018
3,454
This has been repeated multiple times - releasing a review significantly after embargo (especially for one of the biggest releases of this year) is monumentally detrimental to your review getting viewed at all.

So take the entire month you have to write the review around your constraints, in order to be ready on day one.

Seems like a lot of other critics figured it out.
 

pizzabutt

Member
Apr 28, 2020
796
I mean... you can always put in your review "7/10 ... but after the embargo we will update the review with the aspects that we can't talk now but are the reasons we give it that note"

That even could give those people more ad revenue than that twitter rants lol
That's what the gamespot reviewer did! Along with the note that the post-release date review wouldn't change the score. It seems like most reviewers are waiting for the release so they can finally talk about their reactions to the story in depth.
 

LuuKyK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,785
Brazil
Sure why not it is a review, allow the people to talk about the story.

No thank you. I would rather read about the game without having the story spoiled to me. I didn't avoid leaks and comment sections in every damn site for no reason.

Edit: if talking about the story is so important just make two versions of the review and publish the full one when the embargo ends.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,173
the Netherlands
Hopefully these type of restrictions are something Sony will continue to do for all their future games. The last thing we need is hundreds of people with review copies being free to spoil the shit out of a game a week before release.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,266
The fundamental issue I think with trying to connect player to player-character in a negative way is that people simply don't have negative intentions when they decide to play through a game. People might want to see the story unfold, they might be hunting a Platinum, or they might simply want to get their money's worth out of the game they've just spend $60 on. Even in cases where the evil shit is optional you're not doing it because you're evil, you're doing it because you want to "see the evil ending," or "role play as an evil dude," or "want to experience the dynamic cat-and-mouse chase that happens when you commit mass-murder in GTA."

I think the best games can really achieve is making some things out to be 'bad ideas' mechanically and hoping that the player sees them as bad morally. Stealth games have done this a whole bunch and games like Pathalogic take it to a rather extreme extent, but even then I doubt many people feel 'judged' for, say, going on a full-murder run in Dishonored.

Personally I think that stories which aim to challenge the player's preconceptions instead of trying to judge the player themselves will always work so much better. Take Spec Ops: The Line for instance, that game was so much more impactful when it was directly critiquing American imperialism through its gameplay instead of trying to make some grand statement about shooters.
A lot of people actually feel judged when doing murder runs in Dishonored from what I've read on Reddit and I am actually in the middle of said run right now and I kind of feel it too. Even though the chaos system isn't supposed to be a good/bad spectrum of decisions. That said, I do agree most people don't have negative intentions in games and so it's not a very useful avenue.

That said, maybe I didn't articulate well but I meant negative in a way where the player likes the character and connects with them but feels sad about the fate of the character that they can't change or the path they go down. I know I've felt that way watching a character arc unfold in a movie or a book. Like... Requiem for a Dream is a great movie! But I don't know if you could make a game that has the same sort of through line, the interactive part really throws in a wild card.

That said, I agree. It's better to challenge preconceptions over the player themselves and your assessment of Spec-Ops is totally correct. Man, I should replay that. It's been awhile...
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,356
I personally don't mind if reviewers want to talk about specific moments or parts of the game that may be spoilers for others. Just post a warning at the beginning of your review if that's the case and tada, everyone is happy. Unless people ignore the warning and get upset that they got spoiled.
 
Apr 27, 2020
3,027
I'm skimming though reviews from GOW (2018) and it's embargo dropped 9 days before release. I haven't seen anyone spoil any major plot points or characters so far....
 

Venuslulu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
686
I don't get the review restriction complaints. Some films have story embargoes all the way to release date, so reviews are held until release dates.

There's no stomp on journalistic integrity or anything.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
No thank you. I would rather read about the game without having the story spoiled to me. I didn't avoid leaks and comment sections in every damn site for no reason.

Edit: if talking about the story is so important just make two versions of the review and publish the full one when the embargo ends.
I don't get this disconnect.
"I want to talk about the story."
And you hear "I want to spoil the entire story."
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
I personally don't mind if reviewers want to talk about specific moments or parts of the game that may be spoilers for others. Just post a warning at the beginning of your review if that's the case and tada, everyone is happy. Unless people ignore the warning and get upset that they got spoiled.
They should only be allowed to do that after the game releases or everyone that reads it a week before will just start talking about it and spoiling it for others without warning. That's why I hope Sony keeps doing this. Don't want to write a review where you can't spoil major plot points? Then review it after it launches. Spoilers fucking suck.
 

Ikaruga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,055
Austria
I'm skimming though reviews from GOW (2018) and it's embargo dropped 9 days before release. I haven't seen anyone spoil any major plot points or characters so far....
Probably because GoW's story was not 'that' big of a deal in the first place and the game itself was mostly focused on gameplay alone. TLOU II is on a whole different level, especially with it's kind of direction, even/also compared to the first game.
 

Combo

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
2,437
My only thought with all the reveals and stuff has been do we really need to hear these people gargle to death?

I get that we are at an unprecedented time for dev and fidelity, but having listened to people gargle and die in real life I just have the perception that this philosophy of "bleak as fuck til the end" could have been notched down a little without actually compromising anything artistically.

With that said I'm going to play the game and see how I feel about it, but thats been my impression the whole time.
If video games contain so much violence, then what difference is there in making them 0.1% more violent?

I personally don't like the violence in these types of games. I never understood the school kids who thought MK was cool because you could cut off people's heads.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,356
They should only be allowed to do that after the game releases or everyone that reads it a week before will just start talking about it and spoiling it for others without warning. That's why I hope Sony keeps doing this. Don't want to write a review where you can't spoil major plot points? Then review it after it launches. Spoilers fucking suck.

Personally that's on other people, not the reviewers especially if they warn people about them. Spoilers of all sorts have been out for a long time now and the game is in people's hands so they're already showing up en masse and that has nothing to do with reviewers. I personally think this kind of "fear" of spoilers is going into the ridiculous end of the spectrum. I'd personally love to hear about those moments that really struck a reviewer in their time playing the game.
 

Scary_Larry

Banned
Jan 3, 2019
610
Plenty of us are still not spoiled, so Imran's exaggerating just to make a cheap point.

Exactly. Some need to chill a bit in here. I can see both sides of the argument. People have been careful to avoid any potential spoilers (like myself) and I have yet to see anything today in this thread that has links to the initial reviews that spoil anything at all. I do feel for some of the reviewers that can't voice some of the issues they had with it - as it is what they do for a living. I'd be nice to have some sort of an indication as to what they're pertaining to. After all, we're the consumer and any issues should be brought to our attention without the need for spoilers.

Sony went a really bizarre route in all of this and they are partially to blame for some of this. In all honesty, this all could've and should've have been done sometime next week.

With that said, I can't wait to dig into this one and discuss it - both the positives and negatives like any other game. It's going to be a hell of week waiting for this one to drop.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
Personally that's on other people, not the reviewers especially if they warn people about them. Spoilers of all sorts have been out for a long time now and the game is in people's hands so they're already showing up en masse and that has nothing to do with reviewers. I personally think this kind of "fear" of spoilers is going into the ridiculous end of the spectrum. I'd personally love to hear about those moments that really struck a reviewer in their time playing the game.
If you want to spoil something that badly then you're the problem. Nobody's saying you can't talk about the story, just avoid the things YOU AGREED TO NOT TALK ABOUT before the game releases. You can write a review without getting into what is obviously too big to talk about, such as character deaths (if there are any), or a particular story setting Naughty Dog wants people to be surprised by. If you wanted more freedom with your spoilers you could have waited until launch. Nobody forced you to do it a week before.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,279
This has been repeated multiple times - releasing a review significantly after embargo (especially for one of the biggest releases of this year) is monumentally detrimental to your review getting viewed at all.

It is not naughty dogs job to make sure reviewer's sites get the most clicks. It is their job to make sure fans have the best experience possible which in this case to the artists means a spoiler free experience.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,356
If you want to spoil something that badly then you're the problem. Nobody's saying you can't talk about the story, just avoid the things YOU AGREED TO NOT TALK ABOUT before the game releases. You can write a review without getting into what is obviously too big to talk about, such as character deaths, or a particular story setting Naughty Dog wants people to be surprised by.

I don't want to be spoiled, I haven't been spoiled and I'd be fine with reviewers being allowed to talk about spoilers and bringing up how others might spoil you because a reviewer talked about something isn't on the writer or the review. As I said, this fear of spoilers goes to such lengths that it can effect what a reviewer wants to say. Yes some reviewers can write a ton very well without being specific but some don't or can't and I think its a bit cheap to blame them for something out of their hands, i.e. you being spoiled, when it could very well result in a better review.
 

Combo

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
2,437
I get the impression that this game will not be liked by the fans as much as the critics. Maybe another RDR2.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Director of episodes from Top Boy, Little Woods and the upcoming re-imagined Candyman movie.

 

Scary_Larry

Banned
Jan 3, 2019
610
If you want to spoil something that badly then you're the problem. Nobody's saying you can't talk about the story, just avoid the things YOU AGREED TO NOT TALK ABOUT before the game releases. You can write a review without getting into what is obviously too big to talk about, such as character deaths (if there are any), or a particular story setting Naughty Dog wants people to be surprised by. If you wanted more freedom with your spoilers you could have waited until launch. Nobody forced you to do it a week before.

You would have a point if there were spoilers dropped today, but there hasn't been here in this thread or the reviews today that were published. People made a choice a month ago to click on places that did. Pretty confusing and rather childish on what you seem all up in arms about.
 

Lockheartilly9799

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,029
There's a little salt in me because I want Final Fantasy VII Remake to win most of the Game of the Year awards but I knew in my heart that it had no chance going up against The Last of Us Part II. Congrats to Naughty Dog on their success.
 

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,997
USA
More dissent about the embargo


I suppose I'm curious what exactly was restricted from being mentioned in the reviews, and what more it includes beyond not mentioning late game plot points.

I think writing a review for a narrative driven video game is always challenging. On one hand, you probably have to 'spoil' some aspects of a game's story (setting, basic premise, perhaps specific story moments that exemplify the quality of writing, etc). Otherwise you're writing something that's meaninglessly vague. But on the other hand, spoil too much and I think you risk robbing the reader of the experience of uncovering the game's story for themselves. I imagine this can be frustrating for a reviewer, as important plot moments that may represent the review's point of whether a narrative in a game works (or doesn't) can be seen a major spoilers, and thus they may have to tiptoe around that without being able to clearly explain their point.

To me at least, the primary purpose for me to read a video game review is answering the question of 'should I buy this video game?' (or to put it another way, is this a game that I'll be satisfied with the time and money I put into it?). Since every reviewer has different opinions on games, it becomes important to me to read a lot of reviews to get different perspectives to answer those questions. I think the challenge of writing a good review is trying to answer that question effectively (by means of the reviewer speaking from their perspective and time spent with the game) without giving too much away, at least from the standpoint of a story driven game.

Discussions of 'spoilers' and story critique is great and should always be encouraged, but I feel there are so many other avenues to do that. You can put out a 'spoilercast', spoiler discussion video, or just regular articles discussing a game's story and ending in full detail prefaced by a spoiler warning. I don't even necessarily have a problem with someone writing a 'review' of a game filled with spoilers (as long as it's clearly labeled as such), but I don't think a pre-release review is the forum to do that. I feel those discussions should come from a place where those participating and those listening have all finished the game being discussed, but that's my opinion.

I guess after I'm done playing the game, it would be interesting to know what exactly they restricted from being mentioned in these reviews. I will say as someone who wasn't 'spoiled to hell and back' about this game (perhaps one of the advantages of not being that active in social media), I personally did appreciate that reviews I read did avoid spoiling too much of the plot, and wrote about it in 'broader strokes'. I am looking forward to reading more detailed plot discussions, and I'm sure there will be plenty of that out there once I finish the game.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
You would have a point if there were spoilers dropped today, but there hasn't been here in this thread or the reviews today that were published. People made a choice a month ago to click on places that did. Pretty confusing and rather childish on what you seem all up in arms about.
Wrong. Even some people here got spoiled by accident because assholes were posting spoilers on random YouTube comment sections, random Twitter posts, etc. You think everyone that got spoiled was looking for spoilers? You couldn't be more wrong about that. Some people were looking for spoilers because they had no intention of buying the game and wanted to spoil it for others.
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
There's a little salt in me because I want Final Fantasy VII Remake to win most of the Game of the Year awards but I knew in my heart that it had no chance going up against The Last of Us Part II. Congrats to Naughty Dog on their success.

Wait...you thought even without this game FFVIIR had a shot at that?
Like for real? How?