The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Thread
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Yes because Joel killed everyone he meet in the first game right? Ridiculous.
Oh and your second paragraph is tales from your ass.
Look if Ellie straight up said that she wanted to sacrifice herself for humanity and Joel took that decision away from her, then I would have a different opinion about it, but that wasn't the case. I'm talking about facts unlike you.
Gameplay will be your cookie cutter ND gameplay with solid enough story and minmaxed graphics.
Game will review great I bet.
ugh the soundtrack is so fucking good. The way that scene introduced itself reminded me a lot of the way they introduced the fall chapter after Henry and Sam died.
I do wonder why they're trying to find the fireflies though.
I feel bad for Neil reading some of the reactions in here. Mostly because I think this is exactly what he wanted, but he wanted people to experience it together, and experience it in the full context, not get the most important pieces chopped out and thrown out into the wild.
It's also interesting seeing people talk about what these characters should or shouldn't be doing or shouldn't or should be subjected to, as if there's a right or wrong way to tell a story here. If the theme that they're touching on is the cycle of revenge, the hollowness of violence, these leaks seem to be completely justified.
It's weird people are throwing out an entire game that they haven't played because they don't like what the creative minds did with what they have claimed to be like their characters or their plot or something.
I always wonder, do people get to the end of Peter Pan and then complain that Captain Hook should've had a different ending? Is anybody pissed at JM Berrie and never wanting to buy or read any of his works again because they don't like the direction he took? It's a weird response.
I think you can criticize a story told poorly, but we can't make that claim as of now. You can say that you don't like the direction of something and that's fine, but dismissing it outright as a work because it isn't what you want is such a strange thing to do. And I do it too, so I'm not immune from it, and I'm not trying to ride a high horse, it's just an interesting thing to observe with this in particular.
If a creator does the same thing, but does it well it can still get criticized as derivative. But if they try something new and explore some thing that's bound to be upsetting and challenging of a safe perspective or a safe direction to take, then it gets prematurely judged as a complete disaster or a misfire or a bad idea.
It's also interesting seeing people talk about what these characters should or shouldn't be doing or shouldn't or should be subjected to, as if there's a right or wrong way to tell a story here. If the theme that they're touching on is the cycle of revenge, the hollowness of violence, these leaks seem to be completely justified.
It's weird people are throwing out an entire game that they haven't played because they don't like what the creative minds did with what they have claimed to be like their characters or their plot or something.
I always wonder, do people get to the end of Peter Pan and then complain that Captain Hook should've had a different ending? Is anybody pissed at JM Berrie and never wanting to buy or read any of his works again because they don't like the direction he took? It's a weird response.
I think you can criticize a story told poorly, but we can't make that claim as of now. You can say that you don't like the direction of something and that's fine, but dismissing it outright as a work because it isn't what you want is such a strange thing to do. And I do it too, so I'm not immune from it, and I'm not trying to ride a high horse, it's just an interesting thing to observe with this in particular.
If a creator does the same thing, but does it well it can still get criticized as derivative. But if they try something new and explore some thing that's bound to be upsetting and challenging of a safe perspective or a safe direction to take, then it gets prematurely judged as a complete disaster or a misfire or a bad idea.
The entire game is her risking her life to get to the hospital!
She already had to cope with the idea of death once. The game has her directly confront Joel for the truth because she knows he is withholding the truth.
What reason does Joel have to withhold the truth? It's because he knows Ellie would do it.
The only reason he didn't kill Henry was because of the kid, which clued him in on the fact that this wasn't necessarily the usual "hostile."
Honestly, for all we know, Abby killing Joel isn't an act of revenge but rather one of self defense while he and Tommy tried to treat them like a usual gig when it comes to strangers. Coincidentally running into Abby.
If I hazard a guess, they get captured by the cult. And after escaping the cult they're looking for the fireflies.
This game addresses the fact that she knows Joel is lying btw. Joel wouldn't feel the need to lie if he didn't know exactly what Ellie is like.
How do you read this as anything other than a person that would go through with sacrificing herself. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated.
I kinda doubt this. Its like if you were looking forward to a movie but had the entire plot spoiled, and hated it. It wouldn't be that weird to decide not to go.
As another poster just said, people don't really revere TLOU for the gameplay...
Its just shitheads saying that to try to get people even more riled up about the narrative choices in the game. You can tell who they are targeting by the implication that the character being trans would be another demerit for the game. Goes along with the "ND are too woke" message that is often repeated by online right-wing gamers.
Huh risking her life to get to the hospital doesn't mean that she wanted to die.
Why didn't the Fireflies ask her? Because they didn't know if she would do it.
Sorry but those are just assumptions.
Except a movie last for 3 hours tops, whereas a game such as this one could last for 5 to 6 times that. There's much more character and story development in a game than a movie, and even more so when we're talking about a few leaked bulletploint story plots. Isn't it about the journey and not the end in the long run?
It seems to be posted by the same people that use SJW frequently and unironically, so there you go.
Another PM from a random person.
Anyone who truly is trying to avoid these is absolutely fucked
that last line sounds like it could be a basis for the multiplayer game, Ellie's friends vs Abby's friends :P
No matter if she wanted to do it or not, they did not ask her, how is that okay?
Who said that it was ok that they didn't ask her. It's a morally grey situation where every adult in the room is making irrational decisions.
Very sensitive subject
But i think that a 14 years old girl shouldn't have a say in deciding if she should be euthanised or not, even for a vacin to immune others from the virus
You're really rinsing one tiny little clip. Joel wasn't some cold blooded killer through the entirety of The Last of Us either.
I've been coming across some words that I haven't even seen for quite a while, like 'feminazi'... rofl
Risking your life means accepting the possibility you will die. The reason was good enough for her and Joel is the one who didn't think it was worth doing.
It's not a matter of the Fireflies decision. That is it's own trolley problem discussion. It had nothing to do with why Joel murdered them and took Ellie away. He simply reacted to hearing she was going to die and decided for everyone that wasn't going to happen. He knew that even if he waited to ask her she was going to do it and that is why he lied about what transpired.
If Joel truly cared about her choice and feelings he would have told her the truth.
I was being facetious in that post. . And yea, Joel sorta was a cold blooded killer. After being told that his brother is traumatized he threatened his last family member, Tess explicitly states that they were shitty people, his response to Ellie asking if he's killed a lot of innocent people is silence that means yes,and it's implied that he had abused Tommy in the past. Pretty clear that behind all that stoicism Joel snapped the day his daughter died. We're able to empathize with him anyway because we're in his shoes. I just don't agree with the assumption that just because a person kills Joel, it means they must be just as bad as he was.
All I see is a loving father who doesn't wanna lose another daughter, I know many people would've done the same thing in that situation. Anyway the ending has already been discussed to death.
Because you're in his shoes. Other people, including Ellie herself, may see it differently. Grunts in TLOU aren't supposed to be treated as just everyday grunts like in other video games. You're affecting other people through the act of killing. This time it caught up to Joel.
If Ellie was your daughter, you would really let your 14 years old daughter decide?
C'mon now
I've yet to know someone who is a parent irl who wouldnt done what Joel did
Ellie is 14 years old. You dont let a 14 years old decide if she lives or die, ffs
Again, if Ellie was your daughter, you really would have done something different?
Of course I'm not putting myself in some grunt's shoes but in Joel's. Because of course other people would be happy with a vaccine, but it's not up to them to decide, nor is Ellie at her age
at that point in time we're playing Joel who sees Ellie as her Daughter. She could have been in her twenties, he would have done the same. (I would have too.)
I agree with you. His decision was understandable as someone who grew attached to Ellie as if she was his own daughter. He was ready to do everything in his power to save her, and when the big old question came from Ellie, he couldn't handle her being angry or resenting him for it for the rest of his life, so he lied. Absolutely understandable.
I guess I just dont see the point to all this in the way its going. If TLOU 1 had opened with Abby losing her mother because of a maniac escaping with his daughter, and I only saw her side and not his side, I would be on Abby's side. Now that we'll get both perspectives, I understand both perspectives, but I don't necessarily disagree with them. Like I'm not going to say that you shouldn't seek out the person who kills your family and gets away if you're able to. Ideally justice>revenge but this world hardly affords it
Yeah theres a cycle of hatred there. Its pretty natural for there to be. Where do we go from here?
So? I'm coming around to this story tbh, my willingness to be fully invested hinges on Ellie living thow, If she dies..... then I can't commit because I feel that's an insult to everything we went through in the first game. So I hope she doesn't die...
It just feels random and idk video gamey that some random surgeon's daughter goes on a revenge mission.
Ugh I see the ending hasn't leaked yet so we can't debunk Ellie dies and that 4chan leak, which is already not credible because it is directly contradicted by the actual clips of the game.
The whole "this is too grimdark edgy torture porn" based on a leak that is wrong is incredibly annoying, I'll just go back to ignoring the whole thing until there's more tangible leaks to talk about.
The whole "this is too grimdark edgy torture porn" based on a leak that is wrong is incredibly annoying, I'll just go back to ignoring the whole thing until there's more tangible leaks to talk about.
Fuck Joel. The fact that he has apparently STILL had not come clean just reinforces that for me.
I agree it's not fully like MGS2 .
In one of the clips you see Ellie and Joel talking about the events in the first game so they do have THAT conversation .
People can still get everything the want but this game was never going to be about Ellie and Joel alone like they first game.
It's Ellie games but also this new character perspective .
This is suppose to be ND longest and biggest game yet so if Ellie can get her time along with someone else.
How? It feels more video gamey that no one apparently cares that you're slaughtering people.
In the first game my immersion was broken during the last 5 minutes as I attempted to not kill the surgeon, I tried to shoot him in the leg cause he was unarmed. I don't know what else I was expecting in quite the linear game, but it just brought me out of the game. Now if Abby is that same surgeon's daughter it's going to feel so dumb to me after seeing her dad rag doll to the floor after shooting him in the foot. 😑
Great concept, don't get me wrong, but it's been ruined by my own experience from the first game.
Great concept, don't get me wrong, but it's been ruined by my own experience from the first game.
I never said Joel's decision wasn't understandable. He absolutely was wrong to murder a bunch of people over it but it makes sense that he acted irrational to stop the surgery.
Where Joel seriously crosses the line is his encounter with Marlene. She puts her guard down and tries to reason with him. She makes rational and logical points. What does Joel do? he shoots her and when she begs for mercy he kills her. This is where Joel decided his feelings are the only thing that matters. Now look at what this sequel will put Ellie through. This is what Marlene warned him about.
I can't really see any way for them to redeem Abby's character. You can definitely make the case that Joel is not a good person and there's good reason for a lot of people to want revenge against him, but I didn't get the sense that he was a psychopath or anything. In the end though, you cannot ever justify beating someone to death with a golf club. It would be abhorrent to do something like that to the worst war criminals in the world, let alone to someone like Joel. I'm really curious to see how they handle that fact and make it so the player isn't outraged at being forced to play as someone who viciously murdered Joel. I guess we'll have to see what other context we could be missing from these leaks. I read a theory that maybe Joel could have been turning into a zombie, and Ellie misinterpreted the scene. That could be a clever save, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
So I tried to get through the 12 or so additional pages that went up in this thread since I last looked yesterday. So, sorry if I missed this, but:
There hasn't been a leak of the epilogue yet, right? We still don't know for sure what happens after the final fight?
There hasn't been a leak of the epilogue yet, right? We still don't know for sure what happens after the final fight?
The world has gone to shit, I don't think it's video gamey that people are getting killed in that world.
Would you have prefered if it was one of the hundred other victims Joel leaves in his trail then? The surgeon is just a vehicle for the story to keep on rolling. I wouldn't put much thoughts into it.
Of course not, which is why it was always a brilliant ending to the game. It's objectively the "wrong choice" in the bigger picture but everyone in Joel's shoes could relate to it.
The Last of Us Part II is flipping the script by showing the terrible act that was the wrong choice and then seeing if we can empathize with it after the fact. It's such an interesting angle and it's fearless storytelling. Maybe it won't work, surely a huge amount of people won't make that leap, but I applaud them for trying it.
Only thing we know is we follow Abby and lev right after and theyre in california. That's IF thats how itll be in the final game. Other than that we havent got a clue.
Even if Ellie was a grown ass adult he would've done the same thing, it was never about Ellie's choices. That's why he still lied even though she was older. And yea, it's a hard choice to make, no one would let someone close to them die. But the entire point is looking at the scenario from the perspective of other characters. That's why the game itself switches perspectives for the epilogue. Joel sounds happier and livelier than at any other point in the game. Yet it feels off. My point is, not everyone sees eye to eye with Joel and the game questions his actions and/or frames them in very specific ways.
I was just thinking, wasn't the surgeon's daughter leak from the same dude on reddit who said that Jesse lives?
To be fair, a lot of people would probably hate that as well. I mean, just look at Life is Strange 2. Overall the game is pretty good, but I know a lot of people hate it simply because the two protagonists from the first game aren't present.
Pretty much.
What I find interesting is if the game will touch on Joel's choice before he dies. Will he regret what he did knowing that his actions harm Ellie? Will he think back to Marlenes warning that saving her now doesn't mean you can protect her for long? Would a painless death where she is asleep be better than getting brutally beaten?
I love Joel and Ellie. Seeing what they go through is going to make me cry because I'm invested in their story. It doesn't mean I ignore the consequences of boths actions.
Yeah I mean all Joel did was kill her dad and who knows how many people she might of cared about.
She should have just gotten over it really.
Joel was a model citizen who'd never do something so cruel to someone.
The 4chan summary in the op mentions ending details after the fight
I've seen a number of people posting about how to redeem Abby or make her likable. I don't think that's necessary. It's necessary to make it understandable why she's doing what she's doing but it never needs to be approved of or made justifiable. Maybe justifiable if you apply her logic, reasoning, and her background to the questions and solutions, but the consumer and character don't ever have to reach reconciliation. If it is necessary for the consumer and protagonist to always be agreeable, then it chops off a huge portion of narrative possibility in a medium.
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