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lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,750
This feels like a thread dedicated to making fun of someone which rubs me the wrong way...
Like yeah, Ken Penders has had an...unfortunate affect on the Sonic comics, but this seems oddly cruel.

With pointing and laughing at some of the artwork maybe, and im pretty sure hes likely atypically minded in some way and its always fucked up to see people using that as an insult. On the other hand his shitty and dangerous opinions still need to be called out.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
With pointing and laughing at some of the artwork maybe, and im pretty sure hes likely atypically minded in some way and its always fucked up to see people using that as an insult. On the other hand his shitty and dangerous opinions still need to be called out.

Nah, he's literally a professional, his artwork should be held to standards of the comicbook medium, what's next? Not making fun of Greg Land? Rob Liefeld?
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
by most accounts they were just rubber stamping stuff without ever looking at the content, but then saw this cover:
latest

And want "WHAT?"
This madness didn't truly hit me until I scrolled to the bottom.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,626
by most accounts they were just rubber stamping stuff without ever looking at the content, but then saw this cover:
latest

And want "WHAT?"

Why the fuck would Sonic not be allowed to cry? Is he not allowed to be vulnerable and be, well, human? :/

He's supposed to be a positive role model. You want to tell kids that they shouldn't ever cry? What is this, Sonic '06? :P
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
[Sonic cries in the corner, doomed to be a Forever Alone.]

I could see how Sega would have questions about the handling of their cartoon hedgehog mascot.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,671
by most accounts they were just rubber stamping stuff without ever looking at the content, but then saw this cover:
latest

And want "WHAT?"

I really would love to have been a fly on the wall at Sega that day.

"Hey, sir, have you seen the recent Sonic comic?"
"What....oh, right, that thing we commissioned to that company that does the Archie comics, right? What about it?"
"Have you actually read it, sir?"
"I mean, no, but I'm sure it's fine. Like, it's Sonic, we're not exactly asking for high art here. What is it doing?"
"The comic has Sonic in a depression over not marrying his love interest."
".......I'm sorry, what now?"
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,111
by most accounts they were just rubber stamping stuff without ever looking at the content, but then saw this cover:
latest

And want "WHAT?"
If nothing else, this explain why SEGA mandated that sonic can't cry, even if that was a bit of an overeaction ( "sonic was shown depressed? Let's make sure he can't show sadness ever again!")
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,929
Why the fuck would Sonic not be allowed to cry? Is he not allowed to be vulnerable and be, well, human? :/

He's supposed to be a positive role model. You want to tell kids that they shouldn't ever cry? What is this, Sonic '06? :P

"Sonic crying," isn't the problem here, it's the fact that he's crying over his girlfriend getting married to another man, and more importantly that Sonic's girlfriend getting married to another man is not only a thing that's happening, but such an important part of the story now that Sonic's depression over it is the focus of a fucking comic cover. It's emblematic of how what was initially a kids' comedy-adventure comic about a super fast hedgehog and his friends fighting a mad scientist and his army of robots had gone horribly off the rails and become this inane furry soap opera with only vague connections to it's source material. It's basically Archie Sonic's answer to Loss.jpg.
 
Last edited:

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,066
by most accounts they were just rubber stamping stuff without ever looking at the content, but then saw this cover:
latest

And want "WHAT?"

I'm only now realizing this happened around the mid-point of the main series.

This was issue 155, Penders' last issue was 160, and the series got cancelled around 280-something or 290-something.

Ian Flynn still got to write Archie Sonic for a good 130 issues.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,781
Lets not forget the time Ken Penders had Knuckles walk The Israelites The Lost Tribe to Albion with Robin Hood Rob o' the Hedge by being a mix of Moses and Jesus having faith and parting the sea walking across the water with the lost tribe.

OOT7Oew.jpg


aydnDqb.jpg


UfvzyaP.jpg
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,929
Why does he have such an interest in knuckles? Knuckles sucks, only tails is worse.

The Knuckles solo book had Penders as the sole writer and very little pre-established story to base it off of (compared to the main Sonic book, which had a larger writing staff and was built on the foundation of Sonic SatAM), so I can see why someone in that position would get a feeling of ownership over the work they did in such an environment (though Penders has taken it way too far at this point).
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,846
Lets not forget the time Ken Penders had Knuckles walk The Israelites The Lost Tribe to Albion with Robin Hood Rob o' the Hedge by being a mix of Moses and Jesus having faith and parting the sea walking across the water with the lost tribe.


aydnDqb.jpg
the 5th panel with the characters looking at Knuckles make me burst out laughing for some reason.
This is comedy alright.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,049
Why does he have such an interest in knuckles? Knuckles sucks, only tails is worse.

As mentioned, there was absolute no backstory to Knuckles so Penders had to create everything from scratch.

And by god, did he create one hell of a lore for Knuckles and his kind.

Don't worry, Tails still got his fair share of shit like Turbo and Titan Tails
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
As mentioned, there was absolute no backstory to Knuckles so Penders had to create everything from scratch.

And by god, did he create one hell of a lore for Knuckles and his kind.

Don't worry, Tails still got his fair share of shit like Turbo and Titan Tails
Makes sense I guess, have Sega kept some of his knuckles shit canon or wiped it all after they lost the lawsuit?
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,111
Hahaha yeah I thought they would've done that but didn't expect them to make him the last of his kind lol that's nuts.
If you think that's nuts, you should check the story about the edchina race in the sonic bioware rpg that was one of the key points of this whole mess when penders sued Sega and EA because of them, and also how they erased the entire race in the comics by a evil tasmanian devil.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
If you think that's nuts, you should check the story about the edchina race in the sonic bioware rpg that was one of the key points of this whole mess when penders sued Sega and EA because of them, and also how they erased the entire race in the comics by a evil tasmanian devil.
Just read up on it there, didn't know he had went after EA too. I still don't understand how he managed to copyright stuff within Sega's property. Iirc they lost because they didn't have a copy of his contract or something dumb, right?
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,092
If I wanted to actually read the Archie stuff, when would be a good point to start? I know it starts off with one-off adventure type stuff, but gradually gets more plot oriented. I don't mind the weirdness, so don't say the genesis reboot stuff
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,111
Just read up on it there, didn't know he had went after EA too. I still don't understand how he managed to copyright stuff within Sega's property. Iirc they lost because they didn't have a copy of his contract or something dumb, right?
Something like that. Sega said he signed a work for hire contract, like most comic book writers which makes it so that anything made for the comic is property of the employer, but they could not find any copy of it to prove it. Some think it was due to pure incompetence on their part that they lost something like that, which would make sense considering how little they seemed to care about the comics at the time.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
If I wanted to actually read the Archie stuff, when would be a good point to start? I know it starts off with one-off adventure type stuff, but gradually gets more plot oriented. I don't mind the weirdness, so don't say the genesis reboot stuff

I think it was right around the Sally miniseries they started to adapt more serious serialized stories inspired by the Saturday morning cartoon. Somewhere around 20 is a good start I think.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,598
Something like that. Sega said he signed a work for hire contract, like most comic book writers which makes it so that anything made for the comic is property of the employer, but they could not find any copy of it to prove it. Some think it was due to pure incompetence on their part that they lost something like that, which would make sense considering how little they seemed to care about the comics at the time.

Archie, not Sega. All of main Sonic characters created by Sega are completely locked down. It was the characters that Penders created while working on the comics that Penders claimed he owned, and Archie couldn't find the contract that said otherwise.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,929
If I wanted to actually read the Archie stuff, when would be a good point to start? I know it starts off with one-off adventure type stuff, but gradually gets more plot oriented. I don't mind the weirdness, so don't say the genesis reboot stuff

If you're OK with reading the comic in black & white, I'd say Sonic Legacy Vol. 2 would be a good place to start, as it collects around the point that muteKi metioned in their post (#17-36), and can be gotten for pretty cheap off eBay (~$10 last I checked).
 

Setsune

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
Since Sally is still Sega's property, one they could theoretically choose to bring back in the future (even though the reality is it'd be a giant pain), could they go after Penders as a former subcontractor for damaging their brand? Now a lot of people can't avoid Ken's statutory rape fantasies when bringing the character up in any context. And as a former writer heavily associated with the series, not just some random fanfic author, his word about the series carries a lot of weight. He is actively damaging an aspect of Sega's intellectual property.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
Since Sally is still Sega's property, one they could theoretically choose to bring back in the future (even though the reality is it'd be a giant pain), could they go after Penders as a former subcontractor for damaging their brand? Now a lot of people can't avoid Ken's statutory rape fantasies when bringing the character up in any context. And as a former writer heavily associated with the series, not just some random fanfic author, his word about the series carries a lot of weight. He is actively damaging an aspect of Sega's intellectual property.
I think the issue with that is , sega for the most part , likes to keep their spin off seperate. The reason the DiC sonic characters even lasted so long in the book was because of old contracts and sega not paying attention. Even when the reboot happened, Ian Flynn current sonic comic writter had to argue for it. And even still eventually they just got rid of em. So if they were confronted with this dilemma, they would easily just opt to not use those characters again because they have characters from the games that are draws and they can create new ones. Nothing worth suing over, you just won't see em again.

Though Ken has done other petty awful things with official sonic character interpretation, and that one sexual assault he wrote in the story that one time. But most people don't know about those
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,931
That's Ian Flynn's work. He's been in charge of the Sonic comics for the last 15 years or so, ever since Penders was fired. All of Flynn's work is, at its absolute worst, perfectly competent and professional. And usually it's better than that.

7873371f6e8f041d76bc0f6dc5770b33.jpg
Hell yeah that's Tyson Hesse's artwork there, he is extremely talented and his Sonic art is fuckin awesome


Amazing case study in "how being able to draw backgrounds can make you a much better comic book artist"
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Wait, what? Who wrote in this change to Charmy... Penders or Flynn? Wouldn't it have been enough for the Super Genesis Wave to change Charmy's age?
At that point in time it was under Ian Flynn. Ken Penders left after issue #159, and the brain damaged Charmy Bee was issue #177. Ian, did later apologize for it though, and there hasn't been a problem like this since, I think. The series would get a reboot with the 2013 issue "new 252" though, because 3 years prior was when Ken Penders sued the company, and that dispute lasted until the very end of 2012.
 

ChristianH94

Member
Apr 14, 2019
492
Though Ken has done other petty awful things with official sonic character interpretation, and that one sexual assault he wrote in the story that one time. But most people don't know about those

I get a feeling this was already answered somewhere in the thread but I'm gonna ask anyway: was this sexual assault story in the sonic comics themselves or was this Ken Penders' Lara Su Chronicles thing? Also if it was in the Sonic comics, where can I find it? I'm just in a state of disbelief if he did it with Sega's own characters.

-edit- looking through the thread and I can't find the pages in question but I am definitely seeing the tweets in question. At a tad bit of a loss of words here.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196


Warning: Only people over the age of 18 can look at the very first Japanese Sonic plush and his little felt booties

29b819801c73cc465fa04601021184db55ff8a02_hq.jpg


America couldn't handle something so hardcore

also funny that this is bumped today when I just watched this vid which includes a Penders bit I hadn't heard before - he straight up sabotaged one of SatAM's best writers by pretending to want to collab with him and then spreading lies to Sega:



it also has stuff about Sonic Armageddon
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
I get a feeling this was already answered somewhere in the thread but I'm gonna ask anyway: was this sexual assault story in the sonic comics themselves or was this Ken Penders' Lara Su Chronicles thing? Also if it was in the Sonic comics, where can I find it? I'm just in a state of disbelief if he did it with Sega's own characters.
To put it, Very briefly: There is a story where evil sonic from the asshole dimension comes and impersonates sonic and just starts making out and doing stuff with another character she agrees to this because she thinks he's sonic. She agreed under false pretenses and how this may have effected her is never actually addressed.

Also bonus, she is blamed for what happened, and not the creepo who went around pretending to be another person so he could get with girls.

This is on top of the misogyny that drives this story. See Kenny Boy has a very limited view of what women are often wrote them to prizes to be won, or in rouges case, someone fighting over a man completely divorced from her character. This story in particular features bunny rabbot a woman who was, at the moment happily in a committed relationship just magically changed her entire character around "because man is here I must make out with man and man is cool and bad and that's what I want as a woman " . This is a continued theme through this Evil sonic story and even continues after penders is writing the story, its really bad. It turns tails into a creepy nice guy it ain't great. It also features another women who magically changes charcters because "cool bad man exists and that's what woman want" that same woman is painted as a villian for reasonably chewing out tail's creepy nice guy ass.
 

pixelpatron

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
Seattle
I'm all like, who da fuk Ken Penders? Clicks on thread....oh, oh dang! Welp bye Ken Penders, hope you're done with your career.

Move along.....move along.