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It's not a mass market device, so don't expect mass market prices.
It's for enthusiasts.
Half measure is the whole point. There just doesn't exist a massive market for really expensive consoles. At some point approximately one out of five of every PS4 sold was a Pro after its release, so when most still decided to just get the basic PS4, I doubt a beefier Pro would up those numbers. Then of all Pro sales only 40% were upgrading from PS4, so majority were new customers.
It makes some upgrade from the base model and maybe keeps some in the ecosystem for longer by giving options, but the point is to in the end sell as many consoles as possible. For anyone thinking of getting a PS5, they might as well go with the Pro if it's only 100€ more, but make that 200€ and only the enthusiasts are interested.
Maybe there would've been more upgraders with better specs, but it hardly matters as much as those people already are in the ecosystem, and by making the gap bigger you also make development harder, because then a simple resolution increase isn't enough anymore for those who have invested in the expensive machine, and you also just need to leave room for the inevitable PS6.
It is still a mass market device even if it is aimed at enthusiasts, more of a balancing act between the two. They want mainstream buyers that are fine with buying best version to pick it up as well.
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I don't know how I forgot about this, and I'm surprised I haven't seen it posted in this thread (maybe I missed it?)...
But what about the PS5 Pro using FSR3 to help it *run* at 60fps? Frame generation.
Oliver brought it up at the end of today's DF Video.. Great watch like always.
View: https://youtu.be/YDmpaa3qmRE?si=qBVkv_PmCZKRGOsM
Just my own out of ass thoughts.
Three modes..
Quality Mode locked at 30fps
40fps Mode (some dips)
60fps FSR3 (some Frame Generation image quality sacrifices/input lag?)
?
But what about the PS5 Pro using FSR3 to help it *run* at 60fps? Frame generation.
Oliver brought it up at the end of today's DF Video.. Great watch like always.
View: https://youtu.be/YDmpaa3qmRE?si=qBVkv_PmCZKRGOsM
Just my own out of ass thoughts.
Three modes..
Quality Mode locked at 30fps
40fps Mode (some dips)
60fps FSR3 (some Frame Generation image quality sacrifices/input lag?)
?
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FG at below 60 FPS gonan cause more harm than benfits tbh. At this state even doubling stuff beyond 60 FPS can cause a lot of artifacts.
Maybe DLSS4 and FSR4 could make that happen douybling 30 FPS with less problems by 2025.
View: https://twitter.com/LeviathanGamer2/status/1734639727402237987
It seems the problem is Zen4c itself which is not compatible with 6nm and 8Cores but just the 16core layout.
I wonder if the stuff will get advanced by end of next year or a viable full 16 core non Multithreaded solution is possible but I doubt.
Sounds like Sony is aiming to keep PS5 Pro priced at $499 with a modest bump to CPU speed.
Interesting. Hopefully we get leaks in the spring like we did with PS4 Pro/NEO around April-May 2016.
I think Sony is aiming to launch PS5 Pro at $499 and not higher. And I not longer think PS5 Pro will be capable of running GTA VI at 60fps. Native 4K with RT at a locked 30fps seems more likely.
Interesting. Hopefully we get leaks in the spring like we did with PS4 Pro/NEO around April-May 2016.
I think Sony is aiming to launch PS5 Pro at $499 and not higher. And I not longer think PS5 Pro will be capable of running GTA VI at 60fps. Native 4K with RT at a locked 30fps seems more likely.
Sounds like GTAVI is the perfect time to release the next pro consoles for PS5 and XSX.
You could make any game run at these higher "fps". Just enable motion interpolation in your TV.
Game side FG should be better of course but I still wouldn't call that "60 fps" because it's not exactly 60 fps, it's the visual fluidity of 60 fps only.
In fairness that would probably be fine for certain games where the input lag is less important. A PS5 Pro version of Baldur's Gate 3 that renders the UI at a native 60 or 120fps and hits around 60 via frame gen for the graphics only would work fine. Same for anything relatively slow-paced that doesn't require precise inputs or has a lot of real-time cutscenes, like Supermassive games.
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I do think itll be on Zen 2, but Kepler said PS5 Pro will be manufactured on N4P, not 6nm, which will require rearchitecting Zen 2 for 5nm logic circuits anyway.
Lol @ thinking Sony is going to sell a $700 console.
They gonna sell it for $600, without a disc drive that is. If you want one, you can just buy the external disc drive they already sell.
Yeah. By the time it launches a lot of people buying it will have the slim plus disc drive. They'll keep the drive and sell the slim.
MLID dropped a video today (I know, I know). Also referenced this thread. Opinions are all based on the current rumors, if true.
- Says Sony wants to go for cost/value; might not cost that much more over PS5 to make on the new node (wouldn't be surprised if it went for $500 with no disc drive or even $600).
- Targeting more stable/higher framerates over resolution.
- Devs can just put in very little/no effort to take advantage of the hardware to get more stable/higher framerates
- Also mentions it would be a great opportunity to market the Pro and GTA6 together as the best place to play
- Might've missed some more details but that's the gist of what I got while multitasking.
Though most devs haven't followed Insomniac's example, 40fps would seem viable, maybe even a little higher to get in the VRR window. I think most people interested in this type of product would also have a 120hz VRR display.
Imma bet on $549 digital so they can recoup more when people inevitable buy the $80 disc drive.
Doesn't fsr3 helps with cpu bound scenario? 40fps to 80fps via FSR3 should feel very responsive. Still waiting for DF video on updated FSR3 on avatar. I hope it is not a boring straight off the shelf cut down 7800XT even though that is a decent upgrade over PS5. If anything PC is showing us, AI based image reconstruction and frame gen is the way to go without raw GPU performance. FSR2 need to have a base resolution of 1440p to achieve almost native resolution IQ unlike DLSS which can go as low as 1080p so they cant count on already available FSR2
So they are making a console which would justify launching games in broken state on the original unit? Sounds interesting /s
More games need these modes in general. I really hate how it's been ages since Sony implemented VRR on the PS5 and we first saw the standard suite of modes (40fps, 120hz, the ability to unlock framerates combined with LFC), but it's only Sony first-party games that have bothered to implement it IIRC. Even major third-party exclusives like FFXVI simply do not bother, even though they could actually use them more than others. It would also make a lot of the recent UE5 games much more bearable. Xbox doesn't seem to bother much with it either, even though it would be perfect for a game like Starfield.
The PS5 Pro's power combined with those modes would be spectacular, but I don't expect any dev to implement them that wouldn't do so on the regular PS5.
Agreed. It's high time some of those features become part of the cert process.
Based on his leaks, I sure hope Intel's Meteor Lake isn't crap...because I got money riding on $INTC 🥴 I still take with a grain of salt but...it's nice to get some idea of "insider" knowledge.
40fps with FSR3 isn't good. Over 60fps is the min and even then it has issues.
Its also what they say with DLSS3, baseline frame rate needs to be above 60fps but from experience speaking, 40 scale to 80fps is still highly playable and no noticeable increase in input lag.
He might not be right all the time, but I'm pretty sure he knows more than any of us do. Or at the very least he is in a better position to "guesstimate" what will happen.
Just check the guests on his podcast, he clearly has some contacts within the industry.
I would probably get one of these anyway, but these would absolutely get me to buy in for sure.
Hahahaha no
Accesories have a high margin for retailers. The disc drive isn't a money maker.
What makes you say the disc drive is not a higher margin device?
No way that console is below 599 whether it comes with a disc drive or not. But I can imagine that it will be released for 599€ without a disc drive to balance the costs.
Avatar having RT in both modes means PS5 Por coudl get just one 60 FPS mode and even improved settings even with its crappy hardware. It doesn't come just to HW but also to coding well and optimising. That is if they veer plan to to update the game for it but at least Star Wars is given.
It is a high margin for retailers. Accesorios have 30%-50% mark up.
My bad if you thought I was saying the opposite. I meant not a money maker for Sony.
I thought it would be high margin for manufacturer and retailer, I remember DS4s and some other PS4 accessories being roughly 30% for the retailer.
Jeff Grubb backing up PS5 Pro rumored spec sheet, says Sony has proprietary ML hardware
Jeff Grubb is backing up these specs as mostly in the range (though not everything is locked down yet?) He singles out the Sony proprietary AI upscaling solution as the real secret sauce. Also interesting that Nintendo should be releasing a console with DLSS by this point, its kind of Sony staying ahead of the game...
View: https://youtu.be/tEOGgA-JB-U?t=1462
View: https://youtu.be/tEOGgA-JB-U?t=1462
A hardware upscaling solution would be a no-brainer for the PS5 Pro. It would be a huge advantage for this console.
Shouldn't be all that surprising after having fixed hardware (IIRC) for CBR in the Pro. This is the next evolution of that space.
I personally hate the CBR look and find it distracting, but its the direction of travel and I'm all for people trying to reduce the negatives.
AMD wanting to keep FSR open to any vendors is holding it back. DLSS/XeSS show ML backed by specific hardware simply produces better results. Guess Sony internally is just not happy with FSR and it makes sense.
Interesting also is MS had their own ML TAAU in development but scraped it, i guess the obvious reason is AMD performance was lacking.
Seeing as how they try to collaborate with AMD even with their own developed hardware features, it makes sense to ensure the implementation is as seamless for game devs. Adoption for CBR was not universal like FSR, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with.
All TAAUs are basically pick and choose, they all require more or less the same input data. Providing a ML based TAAU with PS SDK isn't going to create any problems since the vast majority of developers are already using some TAAU solution - whether it's their own or FSR2 doesn't really matter.
What I do wonder though is where this would leave the base PS5 h/w. One would think that if Sony will be providing their own TAAU they would need to support both h/w tiers even though the lower one won't be able to make use of the ML component.
Maybe the base system continues to use FSR, or is it possible that Sony and AMD could integrate the ML upscaling hardware into a modified FSR? Would that even be possible?
If they gonna rely on just upscale method to bump everything from res, graphics, RT, FPS and more and keep that crappy CPU and not even increase RAM usage and more then they are so wrong. They will never reach DLSS quality and even if they will it won't be enough.
As soon as GTA6w as shown, PS5 Pro became very trending and they really gonna hit a wall if the console won't be able to run it in very much better way way than the original and especially the mob pipe dream the 60 FPS.
FSR isn't exactly Sony's product and I don't know if they even include it in the SDK right now? But sure that's possible - although this opens another can of worms in the form of whether or not this MLFSR will be available on PC and how and where will it work.
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