Tom King disappointed with DC hiring Comicsgate artist (UPDATE: Artist originally unaware of and doesn't support Comicsgate. See threadmarks)

[Deleted member 5865]

I can believe a comic artist doesn't know about comicsgate. I mean, that reflects poorly on the artist for not knowing basic stuff about the industry they work in, but sure

However if I found out I made art for alt-right nazi clowns then I would respond to a twitter callout like "Oh shit bro I didn't know about this nazi stuff, fuck those people" instead of...not...doing that...

 

[BWoog]

I can believe a comic artist doesn't know about comicsgate. I mean, that reflects poorly on the artist for not knowing basic stuff about the industry they work in, but sure

However if I found out I made art for alt-right nazi clowns then I would respond to a twitter callout like "Oh shit bro I didn't know about this nazi stuff, fuck those people" instead of...not...doing that...

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Again, I'm not going to attack Lee but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was never on social media, but he's posting this response....from his Instagram.

 

[Nawid]

Again, I'm not going to attack Lee but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was never on social media, but he's posting this response....from his Instagram.

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That doesn't mean he's on social media on the sense that other people are. Look at his content, look at his email.

 

[RocketKiss]

People can believe whatever they want about Lee, but I can't understand why these same people support a man who willfully participated in a fabricated war that killed untold numbers of innocent brown people. Blow his twitter up about that. Why the double standard?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

People can believe whatever they want about Lee, but I can't understand why these same people support a man who willfully participated in a fabricated war that killed untold numbers of innocent brown people. Blow his twitter up about that. Why the double standard?

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Cause he's white.

 

[Weiss]

I can believe a comic artist doesn't know about comicsgate. I mean, that reflects poorly on the artist for not knowing basic stuff about the industry they work in, but sure

However if I found out I made art for alt-right nazi clowns then I would respond to a twitter callout like "Oh shit bro I didn't know about this nazi stuff, fuck those people" instead of...not...doing that...

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I mean, maybe that would have happened if this didn't play out the way it did?

"I'm not part of ANY group", okay yeah that's clearly not the right answer, he should say "I am not part of comicsgate and I denounce any involvement on my part", but can we just wait for him to prove he's one of them before getting on his case for not denying he's a member of a hate group quite the right way?

 

[Watchtower]

For the record King deserves to take the brunt of the backlash for this whole episode. He decided the best way to address Lee working with Comicsgators was to put him and DC on full-blast on Twitter, just wildly painting targets on the former's back, and when he realizes he goofed his response amounts to "oops my bad". That's an extremely irresponsible way of conducting yourself when it comes to accusing someone and King should know better.

At the same time Lee does deserve to get called out for insisting on being willfully ignorant. His response boils down to "I choose not to be connected, fuck you guys for dragging me into this, let me live my life", which is also incredibly irresponsible given the current environment with nerd-centric industries like the comics industry. He may not be explicitly supporting Comicsgate but he clearly doesn't care about legitimizing Van Sciver by being willing to work with him even if just for a paycheck. This is exactly what Dynamite's been getting raked over the coals for recently. "We don't support bigotry but have no problems working with bigots for profit" doesn't fly anymore.

 

[Timeaisis]

Lol so we're just throwing around this kinda shit around now? Man, the internet is such a weird place.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

woof. a lot of people in this thread making light of a dude's work supporting and profiting from a hate movement. a lot of people grandstanding about the "correct" way to deal with a co-worker whose involvement in a hate movement could crater your reputation and career.

this isn't a misunderstanding with a friend. jae lee worked for a hate movement. A HATE MOVEMENT. and even now, after he's issued a statement, has shown no evidence of caring that he did that work or that he won't do it again. those comics are still being sold, still funding EVS who invests that money directly into harassment and spreading bigotry. that didn't stop because lee says "oh i don't check twitter." there has to be accountability here. responsibility taken.

hate movements and even tenuous support of them deserves to be taken more seriously.

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Do you understand the imbalance of power between Lee and King, a white man with a large industry and social media following?

Instead, a part of the internet I avoid like the plague came barging in. I had companies I'm working for calling me, friends reaching out to me. I'm seeing hate pouring out of strangers' mouths, accusing me of things I have no knowledge of.

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In his statement, Lee talks about the direct consequences King's tweet had. If King hadn't backtracked, what do you think the end result would have been?
Lee's covers for Cyberfrog would not have "crater[ed] his reputation". Lee posed no threat to him -- but I guess that has never stopped white people before.

That he apparently doesn't give a fuck, and worse thinks anti-extremism is the bigger enemy in this situation, only makes it worse.

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You can leap tall buildings in a single bound with that logic.

 

[bluexy]

Do you understand the imbalance of power between Lee and King, a white man with a large industry and social media following?

In his statement, Lee talks about the direct consequences King's tweet had. If King hadn't backtracked, what do you think the end result would have been?
Lee's covers for Cyberfrog would not have "crater[ed] his reputation". Lee posed no threat to him -- but I guess that has never stopped white people before.


You can leap tall buildings in a single bound with that logic.

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please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

 

[Kinthey]

please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

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Considering how easily the situation was resolved for King by just having a quick chat I'm not sure how you can argue that going through twitter was the better way.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

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lmao

Not knowing isn't a fucking crime nor is it a sign of bigotry.

Even Tom King, who hasn't even gotten any heat for his shitty accusation, said it's all good for him and Jae Lee, but here we have you trying to drag people.

 

[RocketKiss]

please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

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Please tell us why you support a literal war criminal who helped invade a country, possibly even torture (being part of 'counterterrorism'), and kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of brown people. Handwave that why won't you?

 

[Dongs Macabre]

please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

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By King's own admission, Lee does not "literally support that group". Have you heard the quote "with great power, comes great responsibility"? It's sorta the most famous fucking line in superhero comics. Whatever harassment King has faced from CG, and I'm sure he has faced a lot of it, that doesn't take away his position of power in this situation.

 

[alexiswrite]

Maybe people should just be, in general, better. Like you shouldn't work with/support bigots unknowingly and you shouldn't put someone else on blast on the internet without knowing all the details. Either way, I don't think this is the biggest deal.

 

[Pelleas]

please tell me more about how Tom King, a Jewish man targeted by frequent death threats and anti-semitism from CG, should have shut up and stayed quiet about a coworker who literally supported that group. handwave bigotry more, why don't you.

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So why the fuck would he back-pedal from his original tweet? I mean if Lee really is part of CG, why bother making a clarification at all?

Cause he's white.

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Oh come on, this is the comic book community we're talking about here. There's no way that kind of bigotry would fly around here...for the past 70 years.

 

[Sandfox]

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And this is why Lee should've denounced Comicsgate if that's how he feels.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

And this is why Lee should've denounced Comicsgate if that's how he feels.

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nah that's why you don't point fingers before getting your facts in first.

Now he's put Jae Lee in a tough spot and he's being used as ammo by CG.

 

[Weiss]

nah that's why you don't point fingers before getting your facts in first.

Now he's put Jae Lee in a tough spot and he's being used as ammo by CG.

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I think now's a good time for Lee to say "fuck these guys" though. They're trying to profit off his name and work.

 

[Nawid]

What King should've done is let Jae know in private. If Jae then didn't respond well, then putting him on blast would be appropriate. Jae has a right to mind his business now that he's put in this shitty spot.

 

[Sandfox]

nah that's why you don't point fingers before getting your facts in first.

Now he's put Jae Lee in a tough spot and he's being used as ammo by CG.

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Or Lee could publicly denounce Comicsgate, call them a hate group, and go after the supporters so that his art won't be seen as a positive. The fact that the dude provided art for them and hasn't said anything about it is a really questionable decision on his part.

Lee isn't in a tough spot unless he actually supports them or wants their money because it's easy to trash and denounce them.

Of course he could've just not given them art in the first place.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I think now's a good time for Lee to say "fuck these guys" though. They're trying to profit off his name and work.

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Yea now would be a good time since he's being tossed around by both sides.

 

[Deleted member 56306]

So now that Lee's been made privy to the bullshit, is he himself gonna like, denounce them or just keep letting ol boy use him for marketing?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Or Lee could publicly denounce Comicsgate, call them a hate group, and go after the supporters so that his art won't be seen as a positive. The fact that the dude provided art for them and hasn't said anything about it is a really questionable decision on his part.

Lee isn't in a tough spot unless he actually supports them or wants their money because it's easy to trash and denounce them.

Of course he could've just not given them art in the first place.

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It's almost you didn't read the thread.

He didn't know about CG. He only uses IG to post his art.

How the fuck is this forum giving King a free pass on this lmao

 

[Nawid]

It's almost you didn't read the thread.

He didn't know about CG. He only uses IG to post his art.

How the fuck is this forum giving King a free pass on this lmao

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Lol don't forget the people in this thread that want Lee to apologize to a group of people who wanted to throw him under the bus for something he doesn't even know about, hours after the fact.

 

[Sensei]

TK is dogshit for this tbh, he should have just asked the guy in the first place

 

[Wanderer5]

I mean, even though Tom King shouldn't had jump the gun on this, Jae Lee should really just go ahead and denounce this piece of shit group if he hasn't already, since they are marketing his work.

 

[Sandfox]

It's almost you didn't read the thread.

He didn't know about CG. He only uses IG to post his art.

How the fuck is this forum giving King a free pass on this lmao

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I know he said he didn't know, but in his statement all he said is "I'm not a part of any group". He didn't denounce the group, say anything about him provided art to them, or even mention them. You're saying that Lee is in a tough spot, but he isn't because he just needs to say something.

Maybe you should read.

 

[kmfdmpig]

It's almost you didn't read the thread.

He didn't know about CG. He only uses IG to post his art.

How the fuck is this forum giving King a free pass on this lmao

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Comicsgate is a huge issue in comics. Jae Lee is a comics professional who attends 12-15 cons every year. If he doesn't know it's either because he's the least interested person in what's going on in his field or because he chooses not to know. If it really took him by surprise it's a bit odd that in his 280 word IG post he doesn't mention that he disagrees with CG.

King said that the alternate cover was done by Lee, who had also done covers for a hate group. Whether or not Lee knew it he did, in fact, make two covers for CG, which is a hate group. King didn't say anything that's not 100% correct. You can argue that he should have given Lee the courtesy of a phone call or handled it more discreetly, but there is nothing in his tweet that is even arguably incorrect. He did not say that Lee was, as a person, affiliated with CG just that he had done covers for them, which is not in dispute.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I know he said he didn't know, but in his statement all he said is "I'm not a part of any group". He didn't denounce the group, say anything about him provided art to them, or even mention them. You're saying that Lee is in a tough spot, but he isn't because he just needs to say something.

Maybe you should read.

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This guy doesn't want to be involved at all. AT ALL.

Now he doesn't get that option. Having the preferred option taken from you is always gonna be on the tough spot.

Maybe you should focus on people who are actually vocal about supporting CG. Jae Lee will come around or he won't and put his career at risk.

 

[Watchtower]

I think now's a good time for Lee to say "fuck these guys" though. They're trying to profit off his name and work.

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That was always the plan.

Like, Jae Lee isn't some rando. He has a long and well-respected career in the industry. He and his art are pretty well-known in the industry. Van Sciver was always going to go to his Comicsgate crowd and go "Be sure to support our comic and cause by getting this variant by our boy, the illustrious Jae Lee!" He was always going to build that bridge between Jae Lee and Comicsgate, and this tweet of him capitalizing on King's callout was inevitable.

Now Van Sciver's going to try to culture war this shit to fully swing Lee over to his side. Lee isn't out of this mess. He doesn't get to be out of this mess.

 

[BWoog]

This guy doesn't want to be involved at all. AT ALL.

Now he doesn't get that option. Having the preferred option taken from you is always gonna be on the tough spot.

Maybe you should focus on people who are actually vocal about supporting CG. Jae Lee will come around or he won't and put his career at risk.

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You know how bad Comicsgate was originally right? How it had Vox Day as its lead guy before Van Sciver swallowed it. How they post really racist shit on the regular and are insanely homophobic?

I feel like folks in here are downplaying how bad Comicsgate is. Would people have this same stance if Lee had done work for a self avowed white supremacist group and said "I'm not part of any group though"?

 

[Weiss]

You know how bad Comicsgate was originally right? How it had Vox Day as its lead guy before Van Sciver swallowed it. How they post really racist shit on the regular and are insanely homophobic.

I feel like folks in here are downplaying how bad Comicsgate is. Would people have this same stance if Lee had done work for a self avowed white supremacist group and said "I'm not part of any group though."

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Unfortunately for Lee, it is his responsibility at this point to at least say something.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Comicsgate is a huge issue in comics. Jae Lee is a comics professional who attends 12-15 cons every year. If he doesn't know it's either because he's the least interested person in what's going on in his field or because he chooses not to know. If it really took him by surprise it's a bit odd that in his 280 word IG post he doesn't mention that he disagrees with CG.

King said that the alternate cover was done by Lee, who had also done covers for a hate group. Whether or not Lee knew it he did, in fact, make two covers for CG, which is a hate group. King didn't say anything that's not 100% correct. You can argue that he should have given Lee the courtesy of a phone call or handled it more discreetly, but there is nothing in his tweet that is even arguably incorrect. He did not say that Lee was, as a person, affiliated with CG just that he had done covers for them, which is not in dispute.

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Yea I'm not going to dig in or speculate on why he didn't know about CG previously. If he says he didn't know, he didn't know, and if King, the guy who accused him, says he good now, then that's enough confirmation for me or anyone to be honest.

But if he wants to still stay in the sideline, that's on him, and he'll face consequences for it later. I don't see the point on trying to drag him, and I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that people on the sideline are part of CG.

You know how bad Comicsgate was originally right? How it had Vox Day as its lead guy before Van Sciver swallowed it. How they post really racist shit on the regular and are insanely homophobic.

I feel like folks in here are downplaying how bad Comicsgate is. Would people have this same stance if Lee had done work for a self avowed white supremacist group and said "I'm not part of any group though."

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Yea I do know how bad it was and still is.

If he knew about CG and still did art for them, yea that's pretty bad even if he claims he doesn't want to be part of any group.

But that's not the case. Even his accuser cleared him.

 

[BWoog]

Yea I do know how bad it was and still is.

If he knew about CG and still did art for them, yea that's pretty bad even if he claims he doesn't want to be part of any group.

But that's not the case. Even his accuser cleared him.

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I truly have the feeling that he's going to do more work for these chuds in the future, I really do and then we can all swing back to this conversation.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I truly have the feeling that he's going to do more work for these chuds in the future, I really do and then we can all swing back to this conversation.

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You know, now that's been aware of CG, even he doesn't want to be, he's gonna have to choose a side, sooner or later. CG already propping him to be their rallying cry.

If he continues to work for them, than his career is gonna take a dip. On the plus side, if he refuses any future commissions, that's a fuck you from Lee to CG.

 

[BWoog]

FYI, one of the head artists for Comicsgate just posted this a few hours ago:

Spoiler

 

[karobit]

I play games and read a lot of comics and I still don't know what comics gate or gamergate are lol

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whose fault is your ignorance lol

 

[Nawid]

whose fault is your ignorance lol

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I think most people in either medium aren't aware. My friends and family are not.

 

[karobit]

I think most people in either medium aren't aware. My friends and family are not.

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are your friends and family on resetera? posting in a thread about comicsgate? just to say "i dont know what this is lol"?

 

[RSTEIN]

whose fault is your ignorance lol

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Mine, of course. I'm content to just read the books and play the games and not get caught up in whatever drama is happening behind the scenes/among the fans.

 

[Deleted member 56306]

Mine, of course. I'm content to just read the books and play the games and not get caught up in whatever drama is happening behind the scenes/among the fans.

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It's not just fans. Creators are being attacked too.

Edit: And it's lead by people who used to do art for the big two.

 

[vodalus]

Seems like Tom King made a perfectly rational inference.

 

[Old Man Spike]

Jae Lee issued a statement on his Instagram page.

jaeleeart

Two weeks ago, June and I took Loki to San Diego to see a specialist. He did not survive due to complications from the surgery. This past Friday was supposed to be a day of mourning. We were back in San Diego to pick up his ashes. We were going to take him to the beach and comfort each other by sharing our favorite stories about our little boy.

Instead, a part of the internet I avoid like the plague came barging in. I had companies I'm working for calling me, friends reaching out to me. I'm seeing hate pouring out of strangers' mouths, accusing me of things I have no knowledge of.

I'm seeing first hand how fast lies are spreading. Let me be clear, I'm not part of ANY group.

We never made it to the beach. We spent the entire six hour drive back home on an emotional roller coaster.

I'm writing this because I'm angry. These irresponsible tweets are not harmless. They do not just go away. They have real world consequences. They can take away your job. Your life. Your memories. June and I were robbed of a special day. So, no, we're not "all good."

This isn't the start of a conversation. This is the end. So please, don't drag me into a world I never wanted to be a part of, nor will I ever want to be a part of.

I want to honor Loki by going back to producing art made with love. For people who enjoy it for what it is. Something that hopefully brings joy into their lives.

Mommy and Daddy miss you so very much, Loki, our love.

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[caffe misto]

Why is Jae Lee so upset?! Tom says they're cool!

 

[jimtothehum]

As an aside, Jae Lee is one of the best comic book artist out there. Watching his work grow and mature over the years has been a lot of fun. Worth checking out if you are not familiar.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Why is Jae Lee so upset?! Tom says they're cool!

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He's upset cause people still trying to drag him even the accuser, Tom King, cleared him.

 

[Siggy-P]

The sheer fuckin' balls for Tom King to say "We're all good. Best possible outcome." after pulling that.

Who does he think he is? I'd be raging if someone tried that on me. Send a hate mob and then try and walk it back like it was nothing.

 

[vodalus]

The sheer fuckin' balls for Tom King to say "We're all good. Best possible outcome." after pulling that.

Who does he think he is? I'd be raging if someone tried that on me. Send a hate mob and then try and walk it back like it was nothing.

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It was completely rational to infer that this was someone who supported a hate movement. It looked for all the world like he had done work for the leader of a hate movement. It really isn't Tom King's fault that he assumed this. If I saw Shigeru Miyamato hanging out with some KKK members I think I would have some questions. Obviously Shigeru Miyamoto would never do such a thing.

It seems what happened is that not everyone is plugged into everything online, and it's easy to forget that.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

It was completely rational to infer that this was someone who supported a hate movement. It looked for all the world like he had done work for the leader of a hate movement. It really isn't Tom King's fault that he assumed this. If I saw Shigeru Miyamato hanging out with some KKK members I think I would have some questions. Obviously Shigeru Miyamoto would never do such a thing.

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Than you ask him directly instead of blasting it on twitter and inciting a mob.