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Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
VR porn with haptic feedback and a limited AI to make the virtual woman seem caring and able to have a conversation with feedback will solve some of this issue, but that will also make the birth rate in Japan plummet even lower... Well it wont help the poor in India/China who wont be able to afford the equipment but could help lessen the impact in the developing middle class.
 

kayos90

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,706
Sounds like a lot of the issues in regards to this come from cultural norms and societal expectations from decades ago. Very sad that this is something that both bachelors and their families have to go through due to indoctrination.
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,892
I'd say that's fundamentally down to human biology. Polyandry makes no sense from a biological propagation standpoint. Polygyny does, and it was reinforced by certain societies.
That only works as an explanation if every human society's sole purpose is to create more and more babies.

And in this case, it's not that the men want to specifically impregnate women and nothing more. They want to have sex, companionship, and children. All three things that are possible in polyandry.

It's not really about no one being smart enough to think about it yet. It really comes down more to the nature of men and all that stuff that goes with it.
Never said it had anything to do with smarts. I'm aware of the reasons why it wouldn't be brought up as a solution.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,563
Sweden
I'm just saying the way you framed women as a solution is fucked. And I do realize that you aren't implying women would be forced to do this. Framing this as a logistical problem and women as the solution is the part find fucked.
Maybe it's fucked if you immediately assume the worst possible motivations behind my post and ignore everything I have written since then to clarify.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
That only works as an explanation if every human society's sole purpose is to create more and more babies.

And in this case, it's not that the men want to specifically impregnate women and nothing more. They want to have sex, companionship, and children. All three things that are possible in polyandry.


Never said it had anything to do with smarts. I'm aware of the reasons why it wouldn't be brought up as a solution.

Every human society's purpose is, at a fundamental level, to propagate the species. That's what we're inherently here to do, and our societies are built on those foundations, no matter how much we like to abstract ourselves from that.

"Hey if you want to have sex, companionship, and kids you'll have to share me with X other people" doesn't seem like a great deal for most people under any circumstances. Otherwise we'd see far more polygamy across the board.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Maybe it's fucked if you immediately assume the worst possible motivations behind my post and ignore everything I have written since then to clarify.

Did you even read the post you are responding to?

Ugh what a mess. Not envious of the people that have the job of trying to find solutions to it.

There will be no "solution", in the traditional sense.

The culture of men feeling entitled to women needs to change, the impending exposion of incels needs to be confronted head on by men and women from their societies.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,181
So between China and India they have around 70m more men than women? But overall isn't the global population 51% female? That would be around 70m more women than men.
 

Jacqli

Member
Nov 26, 2017
99
So between China and India they have around 70m more men than women? But overall isn't the global population 51% female? That would be around 70m more women than men.
If you are into +70 years old women, sure. The problem here is that in the range of 19 - 49 (I cannot remember exactly) there are 70 million more men than women in those countries.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,181
If you are into +70 years old women, sure. The problem here is that in the range of 19 - 49 (I cannot remember exactly) there are 70 million more men than women in those countries.

Sure, but globally there are more women than men. Why isn't there an article about how those women globally won't be getting married or having sex? The numbers are relatively low considering the populations of India and `China.
 

kayos90

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,706
Sure, but globally there are more women than men. Why isn't there an article about how those women globally won't be getting married or having sex? The numbers are relatively low considering the populations of India and `China.

Much easier to write for a smaller segment. Additionally, when making a piece like this there has to be a specific scope and thesis in mind.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,100
Arkansas, USA
How ethical would it be to enshrine into law the ability to abort male babies but not female babies? The natural 105 male births to 100 female births was evolutionary advantageous at one point, but we're past that point now. It does more harm than good.
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
But we can address the problem without bleeding over into male victimhood territory, tis all.

This doesn't make sense if the victims of a problem are men or boys, which is obviously a thing that happens all the time. Unlike race, gender isn't only a social hierarchy but instead different social roles. Both deviation from those roles and adherence to them can cause problems.

Nothing about the fact that women as women have it worse diminishes anything about that. Additionally nothing about the fact that the morons on the internet who call themselves MRAs are indeed morons does either.

The pure hatred these cultures have for women. From Shinto banning women from sumo wrestling to Indian courts nullifying marriages between Muslim men and Hindu women. To the literal slaughter of millions of unborn girls. I look at it and see a reflection of our own western culture of dickpics and constant harassment of women (and all the guys who insist on calling them "females" as if we were discussing biology.)

This is the reason a lot of gender historians and theorists have been moving away for decades now from using patriarchal as a noun. People east of the Bosporus are real people, with real cultures, and real histories, not mere reflections of the West.

There is no "the Patriarchy," there are many patriarchal cultures. Reductionism generally isn't smart or useful.

How ethical would it be to enshrine into law the ability to abort male babies but not female babies? The natural 105 male births to 100 female births was evolutionary advantageous at one point, but we're past that point now. It does more harm than good.

Eugenics got people into this mess, are you sure it's the way out? Especially when this form of Eugenics would involve denying women choice over their own body.
 
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Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
Sure, but globally there are more women than men. Why isn't there an article about how those women globally won't be getting married or having sex? The numbers are relatively low considering the populations of India and `China.
Because that fact mainly depends on women's longer livespans - the imbalance is mainly among widows.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Well they sowed the seeds of misery when they chose to follow their archaic cultural norms and now they must reap their reward. I say this as someone who had lived in India- their preference for men is especially high in rural and poorly educated places. The old belief was born out of boys being better suited to farming chores and other physically demanding work as well as carrying on the "Family" name (surname). And as for women, they were considered a financial burden mostly due to the aspect of "dowry".

It's a tale of sins of the father for which the sons now must pay.
 

Soneji

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,454
Well they sowed the seeds of misery when they chose to follow their archaic cultural norms and now they must reap their reward. I say this as someone who had lived in India- their preference for men is especially high in rural and poorly educated places. The old belief was born out of boys being better suited to farming chores and other physically demanding work as well as carrying on the "Family" name (surname). And as for women, they were considered a financial burden mostly due to the aspect of "dowry".

It's a tale of sins of the father for which the sons now must pay.
Boys being better suited for such work is more a fact than a belief. Even in the most progressive countries the vast majority of physical labor is done by men.

Calling it archaic shows a lack of understanding of history and how long society as a whole takes to make the kind of sweeping changes that would be needed for boys not to be rightfully favored in a country with a one-child law.
 

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Mar 1, 2018
1,567
I predict mass loneliness leading to mass suicide.

Dating is hard enough in a 50/50 male/female country, can't imagine what it is like when there is so much competition.
 

Tribal_Cult

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,548
I mean I guess those are extreme cases, but it's the norm basically everywhere. Even in western countries is incredibly easier to find single men than women.
Thankfully I'm beautiful and rich.

jk
 

Tribal_Cult

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,548
How ethical would it be to enshrine into law the ability to abort male babies but not female babies? The natural 105 male births to 100 female births was evolutionary advantageous at one point, but we're past that point now. It does more harm than good.

Tryna extirpate the competition aren't you.
The problem will solve itself as always.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
Wow, ticking time bomb...

3X4lOEb.png
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,872
That will just create disparities in other countries, so it's shifting the problem around.

Also, particularly in the case of rural India, these wouldn't be hot prospects for immigration anyway.
Rural Korea has been doing it for a long time, but the economics probably favor rural Koreans over rural Indians/Chinese.

Here's a sign posted down the street from me:
c0BDKXO.jpg

"International marriage
Vietnam
Mongolia
Uzbekistan
Nice/Gentle
North Korean females"
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Boys being better suited for such work is more a fact than a belief. Even in the most progressive countries the vast majority of physical labor is done by men.

Calling it archaic shows a lack of understanding of history and how long society as a whole takes to make the kind of sweeping changes that would be needed for boys not to be rightfully favored in a country with a one-child law.

Yes, boys are better because historically they're the ones who have it from the years gone by. The question is whether women are strong enough to handle farming equipment because a lot of farming that can be done by hand is co-shared between men and women. I ought to have worded it better but the it's an incontrovertible truth that the patriarchal practice of passing down men's surname and the economically burdensome (and in my opinion, abhorrent) practice of dowry lends a great deal towards creating the preference for a male heir. Furthermore, I was only talking about India because they (afaik) have never had a "one child" policy unlike China.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
In my mind human trafficking is the most salient danger in all of this. A shortage of women meaning that women will be found because the monetary demand will be there.

In the long term you'll see a public health issue due to the health problems associated with chronic bachelorhood.
 

Soneji

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,454
That's what you get for going full on patriarchy. Will be interested on the fallback of this issue years down the road.
You should go yell at the poor, rural parents for choosing the gender that is a boon not a burden(in terms of helping with manual labor/providing for their parents in old age).

The problem is the law and the elements that led to it. Those living under the law had valid reasons for making their choice.
 

TuturuJones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
186
Did you even read the post you are responding to?



There will be no "solution", in the traditional sense.

The culture of men feeling entitled to women needs to change, the impending exposion of incels needs to be confronted head on by men and women from their societies.

Yeah, this could end up very, very badly with women becoming a "product" you need to import.
 

Deleted member 15948

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
There will be no "solution", in the traditional sense.

The culture of men feeling entitled to women needs to change, the impending exposion of incels needs to be confronted head on by men and women from their societies.

This.

Also can't believe we still have people in this very thread above me looking at it as a supply/demand problem where women should just be moved around for men's needs. Disgusting.
 

Deleted member 22354

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
250
The real solution is to distribute various animes to those men. Statistically at least some of them will stop being interested in 3d women after that
 

J2C

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,405
That's just a crime their country committed against them. Pretty terrible
 
OP
OP
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I'm sorry, are you in fact implying that women's only real purpose is to make babies for men? Would you like to clarify your position?
Systemically aborting female fetuses on a mass scale, as was happening in these countries, will lead to a decline in their fertility rate. In India this isn't as big a deal because of the higher fertility rate, but in China, the one-child policy is leaving them with massive issues in its wake, to the point where they're now starting to explicitly encourage people to shack up and have kids.

If men could carry children, this wouldn't be a problem needing to be discus, but unfortunately we can't all be Arnold Schwarzenegger.
 

Deleted member 15948

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
Systemically aborting female fetuses on a mass scale, as was happening in these countries, will lead to a decline in their fertility rate. In India this isn't as big a deal because of the higher fertility rate, but in China, the one-child policy is leaving them with massive issues in its wake, to the point where they're now starting to explicitly encourage people to shack up and have kids.

Sure. But, perhaps, women can use their own minds to decide if they want to move to where these eligible bachelors are, or stay where they are, instead of discussing 'them' as an impersonal resource that should be moved around so that men can obtain them for the good of society (lol). If it's a 'concern', then perhaps the men from that society should engage in some self reflection on how they got there and treat their fellow human beings with some respect.

Women are human beings who have their own wants and needs beyond being child incubators. I can't believe I have to state this explicitly but here we are. Men are not entitled to sex, or babies.
 
OP
OP
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Sure. But, perhaps, women can use their own minds to decide if they want to move to where these eligible bachelors are, or stay where they are, instead of discussing 'them' as an impersonal resource that should be moved around so that men can obtain them for the good of society (lol). If it's a 'concern', then perhaps the men from that society should engage in some self reflection on how they got there and treat their fellow human beings with some respect.

Women are human beings who have their own wants and needs beyond being child incubators. I can't believe I have to state this explicitly but here we are. Men are not entitled to sex, or babies.
That doesn't change the fact that potential population decline is a huge societal issue w/ massive repercussions. People are a resource, and if you end up in a situation where births are falling below the replacement rate, you are going to be faced with declining tax revenues, workers, infrastructure, etc. None of which are pleasant, if you look at how cities in the US Midwest have gone through population loss.

Yes, they are human beings capable of making their own decisions, but government policy and incentives are going to change in reaction to these events. It was pointed out by someone on twitter a few weeks back (couldn't find the tweet) that China is doing a messaging about-face in response to the looming issues. Whereas previously in the '80s/'90s one child era they went full-tilt feminist, now they're emphasizing a much more traditional view of relationships.

This is not about male entitlement, this is about looming danger in the form of structural damage to their societies.