Which are all points that should be discussed, but hijacking her RIP thread to make those points, ignoring her agency and speaking on her behalf, and accusing Dave of being complicit in her suicide?
That reeks of opportunism.
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Transgender actress, activist and comedienne Daphne Dorman, referenced in Dave Chappelle’s Netflix special, commits suicide
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
Which are all points that should be discussed, but hijacking her RIP thread to make those points, ignoring her agency and speaking on her behalf, and accusing Dave of being complicit in her suicide?
That reeks of opportunism.
So "let's not politicize this (yet another) mass shooting, thoughts and prayers"?
I get people's point that jokes normalize transphobia and I agree wholeheartedly, but I'd urge some fellow members here to not straight-up accuse someone of being responsible for Daphne's death without actual proof.
This comes from a person who can't stand Chapelle.
This comes from a person who can't stand Chapelle.
Dave is not to blame directly, obviously, but everyone has their own narrative and agendas I suppose. Daphne is one of many that take their own lives in this fashion. The takeaways here should be how can we prevent this from happening to other trans people.
Dave's bit, however, is a failure to recognize the plight of trans people all for the sake of getting a stamp of approval from an individual in the group he made a bit out of. He had a bit about Bourdain in there as well, about how looks can be deceiving, yet thinks Daphne laughing at his jokes on the surface have nothing to do with him being a mega famous dude who let her open for him.
Nothing in there tells me he formed any sort of human connection with her. I think Dave has the capacity to be funny without these jokes but he rather double down on what people are telling him he shouldn't say. It sucks, I don't expect him to comment on this either even though her death is unrelated to him.
I personally find the idea that Chappelle's jokes were the reason Dorman killed herself ludicrous.
Yeah. He was talking about how he was performing in a smallish venue and they were having a drink afterwards and she said "I wonder why the NYT would accuse you of normalising R Kelly's sexual misconduct by telling jokes about him, but not of normalising trans folk by doing the same?"
So they were his "it's ok I have a trans friend"? Everything about it seems horrible. Hopefully their loved ones can find peace.
I heard about this early and yeah, this sucks. It's always sad when one of our sisters commits suicide.
Rest in peace.
Rest in peace.
People in here are being gross. She was a fan of Chappelle's and enjoyed his show. Him discovering that led to him befriending her and then subsequently promoting her big time both in his special and by letting her open for him, which is definitely a big deal. She wasn't enjoying his set because she thought he would give her that opportunity.
Fuck everyone in here trying to twist this narrative into being against Chappelle, or trying to suggest his jokes directly caused this. She says she was happy with him and it's not anyone in here's right to try to claim they know better or twist that into an argument they want to make.
I'd more soon believe that the suicide has to do with people who DIDN'T like Chappelle's set going after her for supporting it -- because that tends to be how the Internet works. And fuck everyone who made her feel bad about it.
Of course, the suicide very possibly could have been completely unrelated to Chappelle. It's impossible to know everything that any individual is going through. There are countless stories of people seeming extremely happy and then offing themselves. It's heartbreaking.
Fuck everyone in here trying to twist this narrative into being against Chappelle, or trying to suggest his jokes directly caused this. She says she was happy with him and it's not anyone in here's right to try to claim they know better or twist that into an argument they want to make.
I'd more soon believe that the suicide has to do with people who DIDN'T like Chappelle's set going after her for supporting it -- because that tends to be how the Internet works. And fuck everyone who made her feel bad about it.
Of course, the suicide very possibly could have been completely unrelated to Chappelle. It's impossible to know everything that any individual is going through. There are countless stories of people seeming extremely happy and then offing themselves. It's heartbreaking.
If you're going to chastise people for jumping to conclusions or for trying to twist things, you shouldn't do the same thing but towards people who spoke up about transphobia in the special.
Everytime this is brung up a part of me smh.
This is a deflection to calling him out for contributing to the culture that leads to TG people killing themselves.
Yes it's stupid to accuse directly to say he doesn't add to trans hate or enable it however is another matter. Which is something I notice some in here don't really want to address despite it being the best time to do so.
I say this being TS.
I see a lot of sides saying things that aren't necessary right now.
I'm not jumping to a conclusion. I'm saying people going after for it are extremely more likely a cause than her being a part of a comedian she clearly liked's tour based on the way people on the internet can get riled up and go attack somebody. We all know this is a thing that happens. I'm not saying that is definitively what happened here, ie, not jumping to a conclusion. Whatever the cause, it's tragic. People trying to twist her own words, statements, and actions to being the opposite of what they were is gross.
One can accept the premise that she was personally okay with Chapelle's transphobic jokes (and do not dare argue that they weren't transphobic), and still lament the fact that those jokes exist, lament the fact that so many in this world find them humorous, and lament the fact that so many have rushed to defend those jokes at every possible opportunity- even on this very site. Transphobia is alive in well in every corner of our world, and people like Chapelle are doubtlessly complicit in maintaining that transphobia. That transphobia then makes the lives of transgender individuals significantly harder on a day-to-day basis, as evidenced by the many trans people who feel that suicide is their only option.
Thread title heavily implies the Chappelle stuff is linked to her suicide but it appears not...
You could also just as easily argue that Dave did more for her than anyone else in here by giving her exposure by opening for him.
This true but doesn't take away from what me and others have said about dave's joke not being helpful for trans people.
So what if gave her exposure, think that exposure offsets the hate he enables or normalizes with his jokes?
chapelle gave her exposure? yup
chapelle consistently peddles in transphobic bullshit? yup
they're separate matters
See my previous posts. I'm on the same page as you are. I''ve been saying that in addition to being offensive and hurtful Chappelle's "jokes" are harmful because they normalize transphobia, which has serious consequences on the lives of trans people. I don't think Dave's jokes specifically caused the death of this particular woman though. That is not me defending Chappelle, however, he's a heap of garbage nowadays.
You're speculating on what led to her death when you have as much to go on as anyone else in this situation. If you think that people talking about the transphobia that's all throughout society and Dave's role within that is too far, then you shouldn't be going in the other direction. Because the fact of the matter is, you can not separate transphobia and it's impact on trans people from matters like this. Whether or not Chappelle was involved in this situation in particular, he is a part of the larger impact that transphobia has.
Chappelle benefited more from that than the entire community he mocked. "Help" one by dragging down the rest? Yeah, good trade.
I was only adding to some points and contrasting with others.
You're good, sorry if I was the confusing one I tend to do that.
Kinda the angle i feel the Op was going for but leaves just enough room for deniability.
Chapelle isn't responsible, but this death highlights why certain topics shouldn't be made light of, especially when it's in regards to a group of people who have to live carrying a lot of pain.
They did. Just almost certainly not directly. Every time a transphobe repeats rhetoric that demeans our very existence as a joke or something bad, our collective depression and helplessness increases, as does our chances to be the victim of violent crime.
Chappelle's exact words likely didn't kill her. The anti-trans hatred he added to society likely did. Words really do matter.
But isn't this exactly what happened? Not saying Dave Chappelle single-handedly normalized R Kelly but a lot of people made jokes about him throughout the years until we were in a fucked up place where people just went "well, that's R Kelly for you".
Really well put.
I wish something so obvious didn't have to be said.
I hope Chappelle at least takes time to think about the ideas I'm talking about. He can still change and leave his harmful transphobia behind.
Precisely. Distributing blame in the face of suicide is frequently difficult, counterproductive, and misguided. Rarely is anyone directly responsible, rarely does any attempt to make someone directly responsible capture the tragic circumstances that might lead someone to make such a decision. In this case, there's no evidence Chappelle had any role at all, much less a role that would make him deserving of blame.
Still, it's worth bringing him up. Do the people who find it "disgusting" to see his name being thrown around here not think that some of his recent jokes have been transphobic? Do they not realize the direct result of making transphobic jokes is to make the world less equitable for trans people? Do they think that having and supporting a trans friend somehow makes his transphobia okay?
When a trans person who was best known for coming up in one of his transphobic specials commits suicide, that merely makes the need to do way better all the more real in a way that should be intuitive to anyone.
Throwing out RIPs without reflecting on the obvious isn't somehow being honorable.
That's the same shit Republican politicians do every time there's a mass shooting. It's a form of deflection.
It's her own words, people are using her suicide to push a false narrative and it's disgusting.
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No its not. Endorsing the jokes is far more explicit than "she laughed along." Otherwise every other post wouldnt be about self deprecation defense tactics. You can have your own understanding but the state of this thread speaks for itself. And quite frankly you continuing to refuse to provide a clearer picture is saying plenty as well.
Now that's just downright sad that even in death writers have to advertise a more famous person in the header title.
That jokes kill people, when in fact her death seemingly had nothing to do with Dave's jokes. If you look at her twitter she thought highly of him. It's just a sad situation all around.
Here's her support page if anyone is interested in donating.
I feel like this point is being entirely missed.
I guess it could be construed as "I have a trans friend" or whatever and I'm not going to defend Dave's views in general, but it seems like these two people had a real rapport.
Dave peddles transphobia. He normalizes transphobia. He dresses it up as jokes without punchlines, but it is still transpobia.
What do you think rampant transphobia does to people? Why do you think we don't allow naked open racism in comedy?
Dave may have been her friend, but he is a transphobia piece of shit who empowered other shitty transphobes who didn't have the cover of having a trans friend.
He didn't kill her and she wasn't hurt by him. He also stoked the fires of the transphobia that hurts all trans people.
OP
OP
Added another section from the OP article that says they became friends. I hope that is suitable for you...