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Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,135
Fnor phisheep whomever, so I'm a little confused here with this outcome. If Trump has to give up an account now worth $175M, what is the point of involving Knight, since presumably they are earning a % of that from Trump's pocket? Can't Trump just pay that $175M straight to the AG, and thus save a middleman fee?

Also, does this mean the account is cash equivalent, and not e.g. holding shares of X, Y or Z companies or indices that may decline in value?
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,839
The AG and the state would prefer cash or something that could be easily converted into cash. While we'd all prefer a big "For Sale" sign on Trump Tower, their concern is getting the money owed. If Trump can get them the cash, they'll take it so long as they can trust they'll actually get paid.
I get that but I'm not sure how giving Knight control guarantees they'd get the cash. Also none of this addresses anything he issues with Knight in general. But if the AG is happy, so be it I guess.
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,865
Fnor phisheep whomever, so I'm a little confused here with this outcome. If Trump has to give up an account now worth $175M, what is the point of involving Knight, since presumably they are earning a % of that from Trump's pocket? Can't Trump just pay that $175M straight to the AG, and thus save a middleman fee?

Also, does this mean the account is cash equivalent, and not e.g. holding shares of X, Y or Z companies or indices that may decline in value?

He can't pay to AG yet, because still under appeal. If federal he could pay into court instead, but I don't know if that is done in NY state.

Yes, it'll be in cash of equivalent, and not in shares and indices and suchlike.
 

Fnor

Member
Nov 7, 2023
445
A party who is posting bond must deposit the bond amount. A surety that is posting bond can retain the funds because the court believes (for various reasons, in most cases some kind of licensure and disclosures) that they're good for it and they will lose their ability to conduct that business if they're lying. He's agreeing to give the cash to Knight so Knight can make good on the promise of paying if he loses. If he didn't give it to Knight, it would have to go to the clerk. Nobody is getting paid immediately under this arrangement.

I'm not going to second-guess the AG's office here, but you are correct that this is a very weird arrangement, since Trump gets the bond back if he wins. But I don't think they're convinced they'll win and they're writing that money off. I still think this makes more sense as a way to Knight to increase Trump's existing indebtedness (and their secured positions) to Knight. Trump gets the win of not handing any money over, Knight gets a bigger piece of the pie when it all collapses.

Edit: There's a lot of ink spilled about Trump getting various special treatments from the various NY courts, most of which is people venting frustrating that he isn't being tarred and feathered. This, I think, is the first good example of special treatment. Nothing about this bond makes any sense, the company is not trustworthy, and they're still relying on that untrustworthy company (not even a bondsman) and the even less trustworthy Trump to more or less be good for it. The whole thing is completely bizarre and reeks of the AG and the courts not wanting to poke a bear or look like they're being mean to Trump.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,918
A party who is posting bond must deposit the bond amount. A surety that is posting bond can retain the funds because the court believes (for various reasons, in most cases some kind of licensure and disclosures) that they're good for it and they will lose their ability to conduct that business if they're lying. He's agreeing to give the cash to Knight so Knight can make good on the promise of paying if he loses. If he didn't give it to Knight, it would have to go to the clerk. Nobody is getting paid immediately under this arrangement.

I'm not going to second-guess the AG's office here, but you are correct that this is a very weird arrangement, since Trump gets the bond back if he wins. But I don't think they're convinced they'll win and they're writing that money off. I still think this makes more sense as a way to Knight to increase Trump's existing indebtedness (and their secured positions) to Knight. Trump gets the win of not handing any money over, Knight gets a bigger piece of the pie when it all collapses.

Edit: There's a lot of ink spilled about Trump getting various special treatments from the various NY courts, most of which is people venting frustrating that he isn't being tarred and feathered. This, I think, is the first good example of special treatment. Nothing about this bond makes any sense, the company is not trustworthy, and they're still relying on that untrustworthy company (not even a bondsman) and the even less trustworthy Trump to more or less be good for it. The whole thing is completely bizarre and reeks of the AG and the courts not wanting to poke a bear or look like they're being mean to Trump.
It's all likely due to the sheer size of the bond. Finding a company willing to put up that money would be tough for a person with a good reputation. For someone with Trump's reputation of shafting people it'd be almost impossible. As a result, they're probably willing to bend the rules a bit to ensure they get their money.
 

Fnor

Member
Nov 7, 2023
445
It's all likely due to the sheer size of the bond. Finding a company willing to put up that money would be tough for a person with a good reputation. For someone with Trump's reputation of shafting people it'd be almost impossible. As a result, they're probably willing to bend the rules a bit to ensure they get their money.
That's reasonable, yeah.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,135
IIRC, all the money ultimately ends up in the NY coffers.

Since the size of the judgment was based on calculating how much multiple institutions were defrauded by, do those institutions have any possible way of recouping any of that? Or is it not worth it due to the time and cost and reputational it would result in for them?
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,865
IIRC, all the money ultimately ends up in the NY coffers.

Since the size of the judgment was based on calculating how much multiple institutions were defrauded by, do those institutions have any possible way of recouping any of that? Or is it not worth it due to the time and cost and reputational it would result in for them?

Probably not, because of statutes of limitations on civil claims.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,808
IIRC, all the money ultimately ends up in the NY coffers.

Since the size of the judgment was based on calculating how much multiple institutions were defrauded by, do those institutions have any possible way of recouping any of that? Or is it not worth it due to the time and cost and reputational it would result in for them?
The penalty isn't to make the institutions whole, they were actually paid for their loans.

The penalty is to discourage this type of fraud by eliminating the financial incentive by making the penalties the amount of fraud instead of being fine set at say $10K per action which could and would be written off as a business expense.

The goal being to avoid a house of cards situation where the next bank or lender is left holding the bag when there is an eventual default.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,937
Earth

Trump Media CEO urges House GOP leaders to probe possible 'manipulation' of DJT stock



Trump Media CEO Devin Nunes on Tuesday urged House Republican committee leaders to investigate possible "unlawful manipulation" of the company's stock.

Nunes, himself a former House GOP chair, in a letter asked them to probe "anomalous trading" of the stock in order to gauge the extent of the alleged manipulation and "whether any laws including RICO statutes and tax evasion laws were violated."

The letter comes as the stock price of Trump Media, which created the social media app Truth Social and is majority-owned by former President Donald Trump, continues to trend down in volatile trading sessions.

Nunes told Friedman in his letter that more than 60% of DJT shares have been traded by just four market participants, including Citadel Securities.

The firm responded with a statement blasting Nunes as "the proverbial loser who tries to blame 'naked short selling' for his falling stock price."

"Nunes is exactly the type of person Donald Trump would have fired on [The] Apprentice," a spokesperson for Citadel Securities added in that statement Friday.

 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,844
They'll never do that. It would open up a whole big can of worms that would lay bare all the other stocks that are being manipulated on a daily basis. They can't pretend that they're the only one.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,493
Nunes is trying to throw out a bunch of scare quotes to keep jumpy investors from abandoning ship. Under the assumption that no one investing millions into the market wants a congressional/IRS probe looking too closely at their finances.
 

scottbeowulf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,462
United States
This entire company and stock as a gif. Just hilarious idiocy in every possible way.
carwash-infomercial.gif
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,225
Just went back over the settlement deliberations from Monday. That's all total horse shit and the money won't be there any more. Knight will do whatever trump says with the money and it'll be quadruple dipped out of the whazoo.

It's a shame they went to all that effort, taking years to prosecute frauds, only to allow him to appeal by generating fresh new frauds they won't find out about for several more years.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,171
Just went back over the settlement deliberations from Monday. That's all total horse shit and the money won't be there any more. Knight will do whatever trump says with the money and it'll be quadruple dipped out of the whazoo.

It's a shame they went to all that effort, taking years to prosecute frauds, only to allow him to appeal by generating fresh new frauds they won't find out about for several more years.

Well with the expedited appeal, I imagine we'll know in September one way or another. Though Trump will certainly try 100 ways to delay that too.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,135
The audacity of complaining that their garbage unprofitable company's stock is only worth 10x what it should be fairly valued at.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,937
Earth

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways


The accountant hired to audit former President Donald Trump's media company seemed to have a lot of trouble spelling his name, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday.
Ben F Borgers, the founder and managing partner of the accounting firm BF Borgers, spelled his name 14 different ways in regulatory filings for the Trump Media and Technology Group, the Financial Times reported, citing data it had reviewed from the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board.

Some variations, like Ben F Brogers and Ben F orgers, appeared to be minor spelling mistakes. But others, like Blake F Borgers and Ben F Vonesh, were entirely different names.
The Public Company Accounting Oversight Board said it identified multiple deficiencies in every audit it had received from Borgers' accounting firm in the past two years
In November, Borgers' firm was also removed from the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants' peer-review program.

BF Borgers, the organization said, was "so seriously deficient in its performance that education and remedial, corrective actions are not adequate."


www.businessinsider.com

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways: FT

Ben F Borgers used 14 variations of his name in regulatory filings, including Blake F Borgers and Ben F orgers.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,102
Canada

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,171
I'm willing to bet that if there's any manipulation of DJT stocks, it's on their side

It's just in full steam memestock rollercoaster gambling mode now. Due to the current low trading volume, there will be wild swings up and down until Election Day. It'll crater the moment Trump tries to sell any significant volume or if he loses the election.
 

Jeffapp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,261

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways








www.businessinsider.com

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways: FT

Ben F Borgers used 14 variations of his name in regulatory filings, including Blake F Borgers and Ben F orgers.
There's a point where I kinda envy these people and being so lazy and bad at their jobs and just not giving a shit. Picture you just go into work don't even spell your name right and go home each I think "I really knocked it out of the park today time to watch fallout"
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,225
Last edited:

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
10,305

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways








www.businessinsider.com

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways: FT

Ben F Borgers used 14 variations of his name in regulatory filings, including Blake F Borgers and Ben F orgers.
Who amongst us haven't tried pitching nicknames in an audit to see which one sticks. Personally, I like Blake. It's a fresh and modern take on Ben which only reminds me of a dead spider-man mentor or a dead Darth Vader mentor.
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,865
A few recent filings here.

24 Apr 2024 - report from the Independent Monitor, confirming that both bonds (this and Carroll I) are backed by DJT Trust brokerage accounts.
26 Apr 2024 - court ORDER that the Independent Monitor can communicate ex parte (this opens the way for AG to go after stuff about Weisselberg's perjury)
26 Apr 2024 - agreed stipulation to fix the bond - most importantly making it enforceable in NY!
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,206
A few recent filings here.

24 Apr 2024 - report from the Independent Monitor, confirming that both bonds (this and Carroll I) are backed by DJT Trust brokerage accounts.
26 Apr 2024 - court ORDER that the Independent Monitor can communicate ex parte (this opens the way for AG to go after stuff about Weisselberg's perjury)
26 Apr 2024 - agreed stipulation to fix the bond - most importantly making it enforceable in NY!
That first one seems kinda major
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,810

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,909

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways








www.businessinsider.com

The man who audited Trump's social-media company misspelled his own name 14 different ways: FT

Ben F Borgers used 14 variations of his name in regulatory filings, including Blake F Borgers and Ben F orgers.
Honestly this seems to be a criminal conspiracy that he didn't actually audit certain parts etc. nobody can mistakenly misspell their name so many times and do badly
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13,937
Earth

Rooting for Trump to fail has made his stock shorters millions


Rooting for Donald Trump to fail has rarely been this profitable.

Just ask a hardy band of mostly amateur Wall Street investors who have collectively made tens of millions of dollars over the past month by betting that the stock price of his social media business — Truth Social — will keep dropping despite massive buying by Trump loyalists and wild swings that often mirror the candidate's latest polls, court trials and outbursts on Truth Social itself.
Several of these investors interviewed by The Associated Press say their bearish gambles using "put" options and other trading tools are driven less by their personal feelings about the former president (most don't like him) than their faith in the woeful underlying financials of a company that made less money last year than the average Wendy's hamburger franchise.
"This company makes no money. ... It makes no sense," said Boise, Idaho, ad executive Elle Stange, who estimates she's made $1,300 betting against Trump Media & Technology stock. "He's not as great a businessman as he thinks. A lot of his businesses go belly up, quickly."
Many who spoke to the AP say knowing their bets have helped slash the value of Trump's 65% stake in half is an added political benefit. If some of their predictions are right, they may able to someday push it to zero, making it impossible for him to tap it to pay his hefty legal bills or finance his GOP presidential campaign.
"It's scary," says Drechsler, who likens buyers of Trump's stock to unwavering sports fans. "It is everything that you hope that the stock market is not."
If all of this seems too complicated, there is a far simpler way to make money betting against Trump.

Offshore, casino-style betting sites are taking wagers on the 2024 election, and some have even made President Joe Biden the favorite.

apnews.com

Rooting for Trump to fail has made his stock shorters millions

Several amateur Wall Street investors have made tens of millions of dollars by betting that the stock price will keep dropping.
 

gyrspike

Member
Jan 18, 2018
2,003
Did the dude outsource the audit to someone else. You sure as fuck don't misspell your own name that many different ways. Course this guy works with Trump so he's probably shady as hell.