UAP/UFO |OT|

coldcrush · Sep 15, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://twitter.com/realannapaulina/status/1702456378466369589

As a non American, is it significantly bad that they didn't get the select committee? (sorry I don't really know what these are)
A new hearing would be good if there are further whistleblowers ready to come forward like Grusch and a few others seem to have implied

Forerunner · Sep 15, 2023

UFO sightings: how NASA can bring science to the debate

An astrophysicist who advised the agency talks to Nature about ways to bring rigour to reports of ‘unidentified anomalous phenomena’.

www.nature.com

Nature spoke with the chair of the independent panel, astrophysicist David Spergel at the Simons Foundation in New York City, about the role scientists might play in assessing UAP reports.

What was it like to be on the panel?

It was a learning experience. I learned a lot about what data we collect in Earth science from NASA and from commercial satellites. Then I got a lot of e-mails from the public, which ranged from the curious to someone who writes regularly about the two aliens who live in her attic.

Is it worth engaging with what has often been a fringe activity?

By its nature this is going to be high-risk, high-reward. You're most likely not going to discover something. But if you do, it's very important.

Why should NASA be involved?

We have a problem in our society that people think there's conspiracies and lots of things are hidden. And when the defence department has images of events, those images end up classified, not because of what's in the image but because of how the images were taken.

To me, one of the most important recommendations in the report is that NASA develop an app for people's cellphones that they can use to collect data. It's an opportunity to engage the public in what science is about — when you see something you don't understand, you collect data on it. And they can be part of that process. We do it in an open manner.

The way to make progress is to collect more data, and NASA is good at collecting data.

How do you reconcile the frontiers of research today with fringe elements like the recent report of alien mummies in Mexico?

When someone says they've seen something strange, we don't want to immediately say, I don't believe it. Rather, say: okay, how do you test the strange idea? And let me give the Mexican mummies as an example. If this is real, send some samples to a number of labs and we'll sequence what their DNA is.

We have an obligation as scientists to sometimes spend a portion of our time checking reports of strange things. We need to not just approach things with the attitude of I believe or not, but collect data and see what we learn. It's going to give us a teachable moment to show how science advances.

zooj · Sep 15, 2023

coldcrush said:
As a non American, is it significantly bad that they didn't get the select committee? (sorry I don't really know what these are)
A new hearing would be good if there are further whistleblowers ready to come forward like Grusch and a few others seem to have implied

Meh, the fact that it's at least getting another hearing I think is good even if it is a bit more kicking the can down the road. At least there is a chance now that something said in the second hearing could further increase support and force their hand to create a subcommittee

Deleted member 156745 · Sep 15, 2023

Forerunner said:
"We have a problem in our society that people think there's conspiracies and lots of things are hidden. And when the defence department has images of events, those images end up classified, not because of what's in the image but because of how the images were taken."

Yeah thats a bullshit response by this guy, I can tell which way its going to go. How does he know it's not what's in the image? The US released a video encounter with a Russian drone days after it happened. So that encounter is cool to release, but if someone is out in the middle of nowhere and sees a UAP then suddenly it's not? They're making up an excuse for it to be classified, the same way they make up excuses when they're doing something unethical, illegal, or embarrassing.

An entire branch of the government independently established should be the ones making decisions on classified materials, not the DOD who self-polices themselves and can give whatever to allow what is said or isn't said, or what is classified or isn't.

Akira86 · Sep 15, 2023

coldcrush said:
As a non American, is it significantly bad that they didn't get the select committee? (sorry I don't really know what these are)
A new hearing would be good if there are further whistleblowers ready to come forward like Grusch and a few others seem to have implied

The senate push for the executive branch's committee of experts is the big one. The house's collection of random interested pol's were never going to get their own select committee, in my opinion. But I think the house leader sees an opportunity to use this to diffuse some other tensions within his party, plus interested constituents on the right are very vocal, (and unfortunately, probably ready to play all kinds of association games with their enemies of the day.)

More hearings, more info, more whistleblowers(???), any forward movement, exploration, investigation, is better than hearing the same old things again. It less becomes about how to convince Congress, and more how to catch these slippery weasels that we trained and equipped to be slippery weasels. How to find the red tape to cut it, how to scare these well hidden groups out of their cells with the idea of consequences, when they may think public authority has no hold over them. Or that they supersede that authority and serve a higher one. (An embedded, underground, rogue government organization is a problem, lol. Basically making them the Enclave from Fallout. )

edit:
the dual messaging that conspiracies don't exist, and the implied message that the public should not assume that lots of things are hidden(more government trust) is always interesting.

it's like government gets on paper that the public has less trust, but they are not unanimous in thinking the response should be to become more trustworthy and transparent. like in this case its literally the politicians vs the soldier-spies, lol. they just need more programs to 'combat disinformation and public paranoia', I guess....

its like while real life political intrigue happens internationally, the commercial media is domestically feeding one side Q-anon and vote steals, with the other side getting constant uh-oh Trump\world falling apart, and both sides feel like something is not right... and we're so off balance we might never figure out what. Individually we're stuck supporting our teams and what they want, assuming that it's also what we want, but wondering why we never seem to get ahead. and it seems like instead of moving forward, society is just pushing the wheel that turns the giant millstone of civilization. Make a little progress, moving forward, and realizing we've all been here before.

Here we are again, back at the issue of weird shit in the sky, and the US Gov trying to decide whether it's something they want to talk about, or avoid again for national security reasons.

Forerunner · Sep 15, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisKMellon/status/1702719886001356989

When I set out on this journey, the goal was to get our government to take the UAP issue seriously and investigate appropriately. Now, in just 5 years, we have Congress, DOD, and NASA fully engaged. This is a huge achievement, all we could reasonably ask for. When the Schumer bill passes we'll be in the end zone.

Forerunner · Sep 15, 2023

coldcrush · Sep 15, 2023

Akira86 said:
The senate push for the executive branch's committee of experts is the big one. The house's collection of random interested pol's were never going to get their own select committee, in my opinion. But I think the house leader sees an opportunity to use this to diffuse some other tensions within his party, plus interested constituents on the right are very vocal, (and unfortunately, probably ready to play all kinds of association games with their enemies of the day.)

More hearings, more info, more whistleblowers(???), any forward movement, exploration, investigation, is better than hearing the same old things again. It less becomes about how to convince Congress, and more how to catch these slippery weasels that we trained and equipped to be slippery weasels. How to find the red tape to cut it, how to scare these well hidden groups out of their cells with the idea of consequences, when they may think public authority has no hold over them. Or that they supersede that authority and serve a higher one. (An embedded, underground, rogue government organization is a problem, lol. Basically making them the Enclave from Fallout. )

edit:
the dual messaging that conspiracies don't exist, and the implied message that the public should not assume that lots of things are hidden(more government trust) is always interesting.

it's like government gets on paper that the public has less trust, but they are not unanimous in thinking the response should be to become more trustworthy and transparent. like in this case its literally the politicians vs the soldier-spies, lol. they just need more programs to 'combat disinformation and public paranoia', I guess....

its like while real life political intrigue happens internationally, the commercial media is domestically feeding one side Q-anon and vote steals, with the other side getting constant uh-oh Trump\world falling apart, and both sides feel like something is not right... and we're so off balance we might never figure out what. Individually we're stuck supporting our teams and what they want, assuming that it's also what we want, but wondering why we never seem to get ahead. and it seems like instead of moving forward, society is just pushing the wheel that turns the giant millstone of civilization. Make a little progress, moving forward, and realizing we've all been here before.

Here we are again, back at the issue of weird shit in the sky, and the US Gov trying to decide whether it's something they want to talk about, or avoid again for national security reasons.

Thankyou for the breakdown really appreciate it, I understood that select committee was inherently better, but didn't know what extra powers it had.
I completely agree with your points about finding ways to untangle the web that seems to have been spun from the Manhattan project days and prize the trap apart slowly. I hope that more whistleblower testimony is a good lever to pull. If Grushes statements in the Jesse Michaels interview about the high profile people he was talking to during his investigation are true, I hope that they make the right choice, come forward and have the right protections to testify under oath.
Hoping the SCIF with Grusch can be pushed through,,

zooj · Sep 15, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisKMellon/status/1702719886001356989

Let's keep that momentum going, I never thought we would get one hearing on UAP much less 2 and now it's sounding like there will be a 3rd. We got a ways to go but we've come a long way as far as public acceptance goes.

Panicky Duck · Sep 15, 2023

Forerunner said:

That's puzzling. So the ICIG hasn't done anything, at least not yet? At this point I would be asking if they have any plans to investigate in the future.

Edit: Or perhaps they're still in progress with an investigation, though the wording of the letter doesn't make this clear.

Forerunner · Sep 16, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1702994385674093036

The Mexican Congress was holding a hearing on the existence of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), on Wednesday, September 13, when the alleged Peruvian aliens were hand-delivered in a dramatic coffin-like box. The box contained a pair of dusty figures with elongated skulls on hose-like necks. They had three fingers instead of the usual five, and bore a faint resemblance to Spielberg's E.T.

Alas for truthers: These skeletons are not alien life forms. Instead, they are most likely a composite of pre-Columbian human remains and animal bones, all pieced together with some plaster.

But how they aren't real is a story that's frankly wilder than aliens.

In fact, these little guys appear to have been literally crowdfunded into existence in 2017 as part of an ongoing attempt to create the illusion that these hucksters are sitting on an ancient alien gold mine. And that's just the tip of the alien scam iceberg. The full picture includes a long lineup of skeevy con men dedicated to passing themselves off as pseudoscientific "experts," from media veterans to fake archaeologists and doctors with dubious degrees — all committed to insisting (even as a litany of real scientists line up to object) that their fake aliens are real.

On its website, the Alien Project credits the origin of the mummies not to Jamin, but to a man named "Luis Quispe, a.k.a. Paul R." Jamin describes Quispe only as the "holder of an incredible secret," without elaboration, but says elsewhere that he is their contact with "grave robbers," implying that Quispe is a kind of mummy-runner.

Yet in a 2017 blog post, the popular UFOlogist John Greenewald claimed to have tracked Quispe down and discovered that he was a YouTuber known for making videos of mummies that looked exactly like the Nazca mummies, in order to show viewers how such mummies could be created as a hoax. (Vox has reached out to Greenewald for verification.)

From the beginning, then, it would seem that the perpetrators of this hoax were in zero doubt about what they were doing. Jamin and his team of "experts" were from a community of UFOlogists and fraudsters with a long history of claiming fake doctorates or degrees from discredited schools and other sham credentials. Yet their alien investigation somehow raised $42,000 from over 1,000 contributors. And those contributors arguably got their money's worth: Jamin's pursuit to convince people the aliens were real evolved into an ongoing stunt that, despite the long and loud protests of actual scientists, ultimately led his creations to appear before the Mexican Congress.

Yet Jamin was undaunted — and he had help to boost his claims from a veteran media personality named Jaime Mussan. A UFO enthusiast whose YouTube conspiracy theory channel boasts nearly 1 million subscribers, Maussan has hosted a few conspiracy-theory-minded series, including The Third Millennium for Mexico's TV Azteca. But despite gaining attention as a "journalist" — he was the subject of a 2019 documentary called Maussan's UFO Files — his journalistic credentials seem scant and aren't easy to verify.

Neither are the "discoveries" he's claimed to make in the name of pseudoscience, nor the UFO frauds he's championed, which allegedly stretch back to the 1990s.

These include greatest hits like:

Presenting a strange being dubbed the "Metepec Creature," which turned out to be a skinned monkey.

Championing a hoax called the "Roswell Slides" in 2015 which purported to show a photo of an alien body but turned out to be that of a mummified 2-year-old boy. (Several of the people involved in this hoax would later attach themselves to the Nazca mummy hoax.)

Claiming to have discovered a "demon fairy" in 2016 which was revealed to be "some conglomeration of a bat, wooden sticks, unseen epoxy and other items designed to deceive" — but not until after he sold it for $10,000.

Gaining an entry on the UFO Watchdog Hall of Shame list for repeated UFO-related false claims and fraud attempts.

It's no secret that UFOs and UAPs — the fancier upgraded name for a flying saucer — have been grabbing headlines with regular frequency recently. It's barely been a month since former US intelligence official David Grusch testified before the US House of Representatives that he had spent years investigating reports of strange flying objects for shadowy government agencies. It would be the stuff of conspiracists' dreams — if any of it were true. Since all of Grusch's information was secondhand or hearsay, however, the alien smoking gun still eludes us.

What is true is that the skies are more populated than ever with everything from stealth jets to drones to those odd Chinese spy balloons. All of this means that in an era where conspiracy theories are flourishing, there's more fodder for alien conspiracies than ever before. At the same time, scientific breakthroughs in astronomy and space exploration are happening with more frequency than ever, so the possibility that we could come into contact with alien life has never seemed so near or been so exciting.

That's one reason the presence of the obviously false little bodies at the Mexico congressional hearing was so frustrating to many onlookers, from die-hard UFOlogists who wanted better "evidence" to skeptics who just want fewer things to debunk. Indeed, UNAM's astronomy institute put out a statement following the hearing that lightly shaded the entire endeavor by emphasizing the importance of scientific inquiry and quoting Carl Sagan: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Meanwhile, hoaxers like Jamin and Maussan seem entirely undaunted by all the backlash. It could be that they, as Zardulu proclaimed, are simply trying to create a version of reality that aligns with the one they want to live in — a world filled with aliens and demon fairies. But if this is to be the form that modern myth-making takes, it will arguably take more than some epoxy and a deteriorated llama skull to create the wonder we want to see in the world.

The biggest irony of all is that that world, the world we erase and obscure when we fixate on aliens, is already more marvelous than we can fully comprehend. Consider again the Nazca Lines. They include everything from a giant cat to a wide variety of fun animals to a human whose head has twirled away from its body. The fact we don't know what any of these images mean just adds to their appeal.

And the fact that they were created by whimsical, creative people thousands of years ago is all the more reason to strengthen our ties to our past, our shared cultural values, and to our shared humanity — not use pseudoscience to distort the truth that in the pantheon of incredible alien races, humans rank pretty high on the list.

Baji Boxer · Sep 16, 2023

Panicky Duck said:
That's puzzling. So the ICIG hasn't done anything, at least not yet? At this point I would be asking if they have any plans to investigate in the future.

Edit: Or perhaps they're still in progress with an investigation, though the wording of the letter doesn't make this clear.

I thought the ICIG was investigating the alleged retaliation against Grusch, not the veracity of the claims themselves.

Forerunner · Sep 17, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1703484796255830038

The NASA UFO study was flawed from the start. Any scientific study that intentionally limits the data they look at is not a scientific study at all.

They chose to dismiss classified data so they can give a false aura of "transparency", but still tried to say what UFOs weren't.

Chestbridge · Sep 17, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1703484796255830038

Am I misreading, the sentences after the highlighted sentence seems to contradict? I don't understand what they're trying to say in the rest of that paragraph.

Kneefoil · Sep 17, 2023

Chestbridge said:
Am I misreading, the sentences after the highlighted sentence seems to contradict? I don't understand what they're trying to say in the rest of that paragraph.

In more plain English, it's saying that while there's no good reason to believe that existing UAP reports have an extraterrestrial source, if we consider intelligent life to be possible somewhere in or out of our own solar system, or that there is alien technology somewhere on Earth, then it must also be acknowledged that and all of the other things could exist.

Forerunner · Sep 18, 2023

View: https://youtu.be/RKnXUlwdG6w

An independent study team appointed by NASA say that they haven't found evidence of "extraterrestrial" unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAPs, but a number of these discoveries are still a mystery.

ced · Sep 18, 2023

The Black Vault: Newly Released Documents Shed Light on "UFO Whistleblower" David Grusch's DOPSR Review

To date, although Grusch's DOPSR material was referenced in each of his news interviews, and at the UAP hearing, it has yet to be released by Grusch despite being fully cleared for "Open Publication" by DOPSR. Why he has not released it to date remains a mystery. Past attempts by The Black Vault in June of this year to contact Mr. Grusch's attorney, Charles McCullough, specifically asking about the DOPSR material have remain unanswered.

Not sure why there would be redactions in this, but either way why wouldn't Grusch release this?

ced · Sep 18, 2023

Panicky Duck said:
That's puzzling. So the ICIG hasn't done anything, at least not yet? At this point I would be asking if they have any plans to investigate in the future.

Edit: Or perhaps they're still in progress with an investigation, though the wording of the letter doesn't make this clear.

I'm reading it that they have not conducted any investigations, which would mean Coulthart, Corbell and Knapp are full of shit as usual, it is difficult to understand though.

As a matter of discretion, IC IG notes that it has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UP programs within the responsibility and authority of the DNI that would enable this office to provide a fulsome response to your questions.

Forerunner · Sep 18, 2023

The Sol Foundation

thesolfoundation.org

Sol is holding its first annual conference at Stanford University on November 17-19, 2023. Covering everything from the scientific study of UAP data to philosophical questions raised by it to related global security issues, the meeting brings together Avi Loeb, Charles McCullough, Cristopher Mellon, Garry Nolan, Jacques Vallée, and other leading academic and government voices on UAP.

Now that UAP are considered real enough by Congress to be addressed with federal legislation, we are forced to consider the broad consequences of this for the future of science, technology, economy, politics, law, religion, culture, and all other human institutions and endeavors.

The Sol Foundation is accordingly establishing itself as a premier center for UAP research. Under the direction of academic and government experts already professionally engaged in the study of UAP, the Foundation is assembling teams of noted specialists in the natural sciences, the social sciences, the humanities, and engineering, information science, and other technology-focused disciplines. Collectively, these teams will undertake rigorous, methodical, and cutting-edge inquiry into UAP and their implications as well as help set the agenda for UAP Studies.

As revelation of the reality of UAP would be world-changing in every sense of the term, the Foundation's work is not confined to purely academic research but extends to advisory and policy work as well as public education. In sum, the Sol Foundation's mission is threefold:

To help fund and set a clear direction for the initial 25 years of public research related to UAP, nonhuman intelligences, and the implications of their existence for human understandings of nature, society, technology, and politics. In this, the Foundation intends to be the leading source of the best scientific, intellectual, and policy research on the issue.

To provide reliable, cutting-edge advisory research to the United States' and other national governments as well as corporate clients. Sol will establish itself as and remain the foremost think tank on UAP: the source of the most informed and insightful policy recommendations available.

To offer insight and guidance to the public on the cosmological and political implications of UAP. As humanity grows to understand that it is not the sole intelligence in the universe, Sol will share its perspectives on how humans might creatively respond to this new reality.

As government engagements with UAP are freighted by a history of secrecy and overclassification, Sol is committed to developing a socially responsible approach to the issue—one appropriate for democratic societies. In this regard, we have three aims:

The establishment and maintenance by the United States' and other national governments of informed, democratic oversight of their UAP engagements, including by creating public transparency.

The promotion of UAP-related research that is commercially and ecologically responsible.

The fostering of a greater sense of common humanity across cultures, faiths, nations, and polities, including by supporting the development of UAP-focused initiatives at international institutions.

Forerunner · Sep 19, 2023

UFO Research Is Only Harmed by Antigovernment Rhetoric

Conspiracy theories and, relatedly, antigovernment sentiment could prove toxic to any factual and scientific discussion of unidentified anomalous phenomena

www.scientificamerican.com

Both Republicans and Democrats in Congress support efforts to make more government records related to UAPs open to the public. This is a productive step to begin looking at a whole host of terrestrial explanations for UAPs—everything from Chinese surveillance balloons to people putting guns on a drone—which is particularly welcome on a topic where research often lacks strong footing in scientific data.

However, this increased transparency—and any corresponding spotlight on UAPs—could take a dark turn if policy makers aren't careful.

In theory, this should open the door to an objective and scientific approach to UAPs. But if the information release is haphazard, with a focus on one-off reports of sightings, that could backfire. U.S. national security agencies could suffer damage to their reputation. Those who work on, or report, such phenomena could be stigmatized.

Many in the American public feel a personal connection to the topic. Recent surveys find that about one quarter of Americans report having seen some kind of UFO. Research we worked on at the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation has found clusters of UFO reports across most U.S. states over the past several decades. These constituencies—and their elected officials—can be expected to have strong feelings about UAP data and what it does or doesn't show.

But there is also an undercurrent of conspiracy theory and, relatedly, antigovernment sentiment brewing around the issue. If this grows, it could prove toxic to any factual and scientific discussion of UAPs.

If UAP information gets caught up in debates over antigovernment conspiracies, that'll put the entire area of research—and the movement to make data more transparent—at risk.

For decades, the federal government and intelligence agencies have escalated public information sharing—but this has not produced a shared understanding of facts and events ranging from the attacks on 9/11 to the origins of COVID-19. Instead, intelligence agencies have found themselves under public attack and their findings dismissed. If it happens again, it could not only diminish morale among those working on UAPs, but also decrease governmental willingness to share information.

Antigovernment rhetoric can also sow public distrust. Public confidence in major U.S. institutions is already low. Surveys find that only 8 percent of Americans have confidence in Congress and 26 percent in the White House. About 60 percent report confidence in the U.S. military.

These institutions will play key roles in improving transparency about UAPs, and ultimately destigmatizing discussion of the issue and reports of sightings. Hopefully in the future, the institutions will also be able to rely on the public to report legitimate sightings. Such reporting will increasingly matter as more people, companies and countries start flying more things in the sky.

The creation of AARO last year, NASA's Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Independent Study, and the proposed UAP Records Review Board are steps toward destigmatizing the issue. But this progress could end up derailed if the policy conversation gets mired in conspiratorial claims.

Forerunner · Sep 19, 2023

Full Committee Member Briefing on NASA’s Independent Study Report on Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon (UAPs) | Committee Repository | U.S. House of Representatives

On Thursday, September 21, 2023, at 9:00 a.m. ET, the Committee on Oversight and Accountability will hold a briefing with NASA regarding the recently released Independent Study Report on Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon (UAPs). NASA commissioned sixteen independent researchers to identify available UAP data, how best to collect future data, and how NASA can use that data to move the scientific understanding of UAPs forward. The Committee has invited NASA to conduct a bipartisan, full Committee, Member-level briefing on their findings.

zooj · Sep 19, 2023

Forerunner said:
Full Committee Member Briefing on NASA’s Independent Study Report on Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon (UAPs) | Committee Repository | U.S. House of Representatives

Is this the hearing that Burchett was talking about? Gonna be awkward lines of questioning if they want to continue down the hole that Grusch started.

Forerunner · Sep 19, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1703880133357273547

MisterSnrub · Sep 19, 2023

i can't stop reading through the /r/aliens subreddit trying to pass off the tiny little alien mummies as The Real Deal

it's so damn embarrassing and entertaining at the same time

Forerunner · Sep 19, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisKMellon/status/1704148674136473988

Although the cases of the U.S. Navy detecting underwater objects appearing to move at high speeds are not well documented in the public domain, they do occur. The oceans clearly warrant serious attention as we undertake the study of UAP. Hopefully AARO is receiving this type of data.

Why 'UFOs' should be tracked in the water as well as the skies

A much anticipated NASA report on UFOs calls for better tracking and scientific understanding of unexplained phenomena that captivate the public and have raised concerns about military security.

phys.org

coldcrush · Sep 20, 2023

Not sure if it was posted yet already but James Fox (who I enjoy listening to in general) had an interesting quote where he discusses a letter he has from an alleged first hand witness from one of the programs who is supposedly in the process of getting whistleblower protection (time stamp approx 1:56:21)

Mod Edit: Removed Video to Random YouTube Channel

ced · Sep 20, 2023

coldcrush said:
Not sure if it was posted yet already but James Fox (who I enjoy listening to in general) had an interesting quote where he discusses a letter he has from an alleged first hand witness from one of the programs who is supposedly in the process of getting whistleblower protection (time stamp approx 1:56:21)

Mod Edit: Removed Video to Random YouTube Channel

Same James Fox that went on for months that he had video of an alien autopsy, guess what he never produced.

Baji Boxer · Sep 20, 2023

MisterSnrub said:
i can't stop reading through the /r/aliens subreddit trying to pass off the tiny little alien mummies as The Real Deal

it's so damn embarrassing and entertaining at the same time

I wasted waaaay too much time in that sub following arguments, and occasionally engaging with them myself lol. I actually felt a bit of depression knowing that is time I will never get back :-(

Jordan117 · Sep 20, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisKMellon/status/1704148674136473988

The idea that UAPs emerge from the sea has always been the most spookily plausible scenario for me. We know so damn little about the deep ocean

Deleted member 156745 · Sep 20, 2023

Baji Boxer said:
I wasted waaaay too much time in that sub following arguments, and occasionally engaging with them myself lol. I actually felt a bit of depression knowing that is time I will never get back :-(

Honestly, I'm just kind of over it at this point. I'll let the cake bake but I'm really doubting anything will come out any time soon.

The combination of the below has just turned me off at this point:

- People believing in the alien mummies scammer, despite a multitude of sources and research about it being false ALA MH370 video.

- The disingenuous 'investigation' by NASA saying there's no evidence for X, Y, Z when they spent the report saying they have no access to any info outside the public domain.

- The rejection of a select subcommittee that would have the power to subpoena.

- The ICIG not being forthcoming and removing the word 'investigation' and not being transparent when it's clear what the House was asking about.

- Even the most credible investigators seem to be exaggerating or making claims that can't yet be proven on 'sources', or go on any platform whatsoever that has a high viewership and associate themselves with actual crazy conspiracies versus the UAP mystery that's been going on since the 1940s.

- The NDAA language possibly being changed and muzzled, and the only recourse for people is to call their Congress representative, as if it matters.

- Mainstream media not covering this because of being scared of pissing off someone higher up, and causing lack of access to military sources and the Pentagon for future scoops.

- The fact that first hand witnesses will never be able to bring forward leaks because these unacknowledged SAPs with bigot lists are hidden and very likely completely airgapped from any way to copy these documents to get ANY sort of verifiable information out.

- The ridicule cycle never ends with the same people making the same snide comments so they can feel above someone else, more than anything else.

So yeah, kind of a little bit done now. There's the over exuberant that believe any new viral scan, and then ultra materialists that thinks a lot of themselves to think they have it figured out because things cannot exist outside of the scientific method - which requires any phenomena to be observable and repeatable to human awareness TO exist. I'm just done with arguing about it and keeping up with it on any daily basis. Disclosure Diaries Newsletter can give me a weekly synopsis of the same stuff without all the drama.

WeAreStarStuff · Sep 20, 2023

RedT said:
Honestly, I'm just kind of over it at this point. I'll let the cake bake but I'm really doubting anything will come out any time soon.

The combination of the below has just turned me off at this point:

- People believing in the alien mummies scammer, despite a multitude of sources and research about it being false ALA MH370 video.

- The disingenuous 'investigation' by NASA saying there's no evidence for X, Y, Z when they spent the report saying they have no access to any info outside the public domain.

- The rejection of a select subcommittee that would have the power to subpoena.

- The ICIG not being forthcoming and removing the word 'investigation' and not being transparent when it's clear what the House was asking about.

- Even the most credible investigators seem to be exaggerating or making claims that can't yet be proven on 'sources', or go on any platform whatsoever that has a high viewership and associate themselves with actual crazy conspiracies versus the UAP mystery that's been going on since the 1940s.

- The NDAA language possibly being changed and muzzled, and the only recourse for people is to call their Congress representative, as if it matters.

- Mainstream media not covering this because of being scared of pissing off someone higher up, and causing lack of access to military sources and the Pentagon for future scoops.

- The fact that first hand witnesses will never be able to bring forward leaks because these unacknowledged SAPs with bigot lists are hidden and very likely completely airgapped from any way to copy these documents to get ANY sort of verifiable information out.

- The ridicule cycle never ends with the same people making the same snide comments so they can feel above someone else, more than anything else.

So yeah, kind of a little bit done now. There's the over exuberant that believe any new viral scan, and then ultra materialists that thinks a lot of themselves to think they have it figured out because things cannot exist outside of the scientific method - which requires any phenomena to be observable and repeatable to human awareness TO exist. I'm just done with arguing about it and keeping up with it on any daily basis. Disclosure Diaries Newsletter can give me a weekly synopsis of the same stuff without all the drama.

Yeah, this is pretty much me now.

Akira86 · Sep 20, 2023

yeah you said it. the drama, the chaos, the havoc? it's all unwanted and unnecessary. and it's exhausting to try to keep up with.

I feel like because ufology is where it is in society, this psuedo-exhibition, psuedo-hearing, psuedo-serious place, where you get vague acknowledgement and concern, some statements that can draw a direct line to have a reasonable interest. And then nothing, like they're waiting to receive a submission for best song title, because no one wants to touch this shit, for different reasons.

'the world can't act until we hear from the people who have seen these things', and then open the floodgates for people looking for attention and people with false information. It's not like we can't exercise some level of control and toss these things out.

the appearance of being official is also something I dislike. Political theater we have no use for. The Mexico charade was theater, according to the officials there who said the swearing in wasn't a binding oath, but a courtesy for the proceedings. And that , and from what I figure, the whole thing was a token of goodwill to the organizers and the interested citizens, to let them use official grounds for their event, letting them present it in a serious manner not often allowed.

Which is "nice", but we don't want pageantry or patronization. We want realization, and then we want official action.

the human drama of it all, people putting their reputations on the line is nice, but we don't care about your rep, dude. We want credible facts and evidence and artifacts. If all we get is something convincing (to some) and not credible, I don't know who is helped by that.

its like instead of getting taken seriously, things just get bogged down by all these useless pieces that we could actually do without. And it isn't much to wonder why nothing ever happens except these weird news events.

there is nothing at all wrong with taking a step back during chaotic moments like these. People seem like they're reacting more than they are thinking and this is weird emotional haze in those chaotic spaces that doesn't help anything. There are a lot of newcomers who are wondering why people aren't lifting this up with full on belief and running in the streets, and it's like....

bubba, we've been to this soiree before. Too many times. This time I clicked on a link, but the next time someone claims to have an alien body(how surreal is that phrase??), I won't even get out of bed... and do you see how that works?

zooj · Sep 20, 2023

RedT Hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately this cycle seems to repeat itself again and again. It's clear that unless someone goes scorched earth on this topic, we'll never know the truth. Which I'm sure this is all according to keikaku for the astroturfers at Eglin AF base

Forerunner · Sep 20, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1704498609566142853

This morning a House Oversight Committee spokesperson gave me further clarification on the committee's UAP-related plans: "The Oversight Committee has invited NASA to conduct a bipartisan, full Committee, Member-level briefing on their findings on September 21, 2023. The briefing is closed to the public and media but we anticipate having another public hearing on UAPs in the near future."

Forerunner · Sep 21, 2023

Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

View: https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1704907528923181444

While the actual context and background of the released documents and videos remain unclear, they offer a glimpse at some new cases, though much of the resolution seems to be on the low side. The Black Vault will also be seeking higher resolution versions of the videos, along with higher resolution scans of the documents.

Honome · Sep 21, 2023

Yeah, lots of interesting UAP videos released today!

Available to download from an OFFICIAL US GOVERNMENT WEBSITE. have to specify so I don't get a ban.

https://www.cbp.gov/document/foia-record/unidentified-aerial-phenomenon

I suggest the number 9 showing an object going in and out of the water and splitting(?) in 2.

ced · Sep 21, 2023

Most of these are actually 1-2 yrs old, haven't finished going though all of them but I know we've seen #9 as well.

#1, 4 and 7 are easily explainable.

#1 is a powered hang glider that actually drops something, probably drugs lol, see pics:

https://imgur.com/a/zybKPgS

#4 and 7 are the same and show a bird, probably a hawk that's closer to the camera than the A10.

I don't know how someone couldn't ID these before releasing to AARO or whomever, especially the public as r/UFOs is full of idiots going on about them.

I figured out that was a hawk just by slowing the video down, but the folks at Metabunk solved it long ago.

A-10 "Chased" by Object [Looks like a Bird]

This is a summary post of the investigation in the thread below. The discussion started with a post by @Sophons I am uncertain of the validity of the leak, but the author states the following Ok guys, here it is, the big reveal!! This is the footage that was directly leaked to me via a...

www.metabunk.org

Jraphics Horse · Sep 21, 2023

You can't prove it's not an extraterrestrial ornithopter though

Forerunner · Sep 21, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1704900474069979324

PICKUS: Last question. You have been pressing the Department of Defense for more information about UAPs, also known as UFOs, have you gotten any answers?

SENATOR GILLIBRAND: Not any answers that you would think were interesting. What I have learned is this: we have not been really patrolling the skies in a meaningful way. The FAA looks at this sky for air traffic control to make sure planes don't crash and Space Force and parts of Commerce Department, they do the work of making sure we know where satellites are and what they're doing. But nobody's been looking in between. And the spy balloon was a big wakeup call that other countries are taking advantage of this and spying on us, China being one of them. So we'd heard a lot of reporting from pilots that they keep seeing drones and other different types unidentified flying objects, unidentified aerial phenomenon, doesn't matter what you call it, it's something in the air that you don't understand. Some look like drones, some look like balloons. And they really see it as a safety issue that they're gonna crash into these objects. And they've been very distressed about it.

So I was chair of the [Senate Armed Services] Personnel Subcommittee when a lot of these reports were coming in. And so I wanted to create an office that would review all these UAPs and assess what are they? Are they spy balloons? Are they spy drones? Are they something else? We need to have domain awareness and we need to have air superiority for our national security. And so now we have an office [the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, AARO] that's been reviewing all these cases, they have about 800 cases they're reviewing. They're assessing what they are. A lot of are drones, a lot of them are balloons, a lot of them are unclear.

But we are going to add sensors, we are going to add detection devices on our aircraft, we're going to do over the horizon radars, we're going to do a lot more to have that domain awareness and air superiority. And that I think is really important and meaningful because if there is any UAP out there that's not from here, we will find that. We will be able to assess that and, and if not, then we've got a lot going on that is probably adversaries like China, Russia and Iran, that we have a huge responsibility to know what they're doing.

Forerunner · Sep 22, 2023

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nSIKYlm2eE

Customs and Border Patrol released ten videos along with 387 pages of reports including news clippings and firsthand accounts from sightings of unidentified aerial phenomena. Chris Mellon, a former Secretary of Defense for Intelligence official, said the videos will help the public better understand why this is a national security issue.

Forerunner · Sep 22, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ExpressNews/status/1705262049876414683

From the time I first saw the movie "Earth vs. the Flying Saucers" at age 5 in 1960, I've been interested in the subject of unidentified flying objects.

This isn't to say I automatically assume UFOs are piloted by small green or gray individuals from a distant galaxy. I don't know what the objects are. They could be examples of ultra-secret U.S. technology, something made by foreign powers or groups, perhaps even devices able to cross into our world from another dimension.

When I entered journalism school in 1973, I quickly learned the UFO topic was not one you were supposed to readily breach as a member of the mainstream media.

In J-school, UFO reports (along with stories of ghosts, cryptids, witchcraft, ESP, demonic possession, spontaneous human combustion — anything considered paranormal) constantly were held up as the products only of liars or the insane and belonged in supermarket tabloids.

Throughout my 45-year career, I found this mindset to be pretty much the norm among most of my colleagues and bosses, a situation I considered ridiculous in an industry that supposedly holds objectivity as one of its hallmarks.

Just one managing editor I worked for saw value in the topic of UFOs.

Because of his interest, I was able not only to cover the 50th anniversary celebration in 1997 of the reported crash of a UFO near Roswell, N.M., for the San Antonio Express-News, but to help set up an award-winning website for the paper on the then-novel medium known as "the internet."

Unfortunately, the only time I mentioned the topic to his successor, I received a glare even worse than if I'd requested a raise. The last big boss I had once asked what my favorite teams were. When I said I don't really follow any, as I was interested in UFOs, he gave me a blank look and kept talking about sports.

All this is why I've taken particular glee recently in watching much of the mainstream media's startled response to UFOs invading the headlines.

I only can imagine the consternation in the nation's newsrooms when U.S. representatives listened attentively as two ex-military fliers cited their experiences in encountering bizarre aerial devices, and a retired Air Force intelligence officer stated that not only had devices not manufactured on Earth been recovered, but that nonhuman "biologics" had been found.

As I knew all along, it really does pay for journalists to be objective about things.

Forerunner · Sep 23, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/ask_a_pol/status/1705632635316253105

In our interview this week, Rounds gives Ask a Pol a further glimpse into his thinking on UAPs.

"My concern from the Department of Defense is, I just don't simply want our ongoing programs disrupted or limited because of additional scrutiny on what we are doing and what our adversaries are doing in some very unique programs," Sen. Rounds exclusively tells Ask a Pol.

"These aren't new types of programs. They're the types of programs that have always existed, stealth is a good example," Rounds says.

While rumors are floating around Capitol Hill that House leaders are taking aim at some Senate-passed UAP measures in the NDAA, Rounds says those whispers are premature.

"I haven't heard anything. We'll get into conference, then we'll sit down and work through all that. Maybe some of the items, once they hear the logic behind it, maybe they'll come around on it," Rounds says.

For Rounds, the issue is as much retention-focused as it is transparency-focused.

"I just simply don't want to lose whatever historical data we've got out there," Rounds says. "And, you know, just by happenstance it got lost in a warehouse someplace or lost in a filing cabinet someplace or just simply misplaced. So it would be better if we directed that data on this particular item of interest be put into a single filing location."

As for whether the Senate has a strong case to make if there is pushback in the House?

"I hope so," Rounds says. "At least let's focus on this so that folks that do have a concern about it, so we can at least show them a place where they can go to get good information on some of this stuff."

coldcrush · Sep 24, 2023

So I don't get banned again I will not post it, but I was just listening to Leslie Kean (One journalists whom was part of the New York times article) speak in a recent interview,
She also just confirmed that she had conversations with further whistleblowers that are in the system and process of coming forwards who were waiting to see how David Grusch had been treated.
While this isn't really any new information, the fact that she is one of the more respected names and well connected journalists in the field, it is reassuring that people like her are directly involved and add weight to those stories. Time will tell if these people get spooked, or are denied the platform to speak publicly, But I am hopeful that there seems to be some more credible people confirming that there could be new witnesses and officials willing to share their part of this puzzle

Forerunner · Sep 26, 2023

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_Y97rJZXY&pp=ygUEVmljZQ%3D%3D

Are we alone in the universe? That tantalizing question is hard to ignore these days, as the Pentagon openly discusses unexplained flying metal orbs and people report unidentified objects in the sky. @Motherboard is exploring these mysterious events in a new four-part docuseries, ENCOUNTERS, streaming on Netflix from September 27.

ENCOUNTERS focuses on the human side of the UFO—or UAP, in modern military parlance—phenomenon by foregrounding the first-hand experience of people who claim to have observed possible extraterrestrial interference and includes scientists and military personnel. The series will take viewers on a globetrotting journey digging into UFO sightings hailing from Texas, Wales, Zimbabwe, and Japan.

The docuseries was brought to life by VICE Studios, Steven Spielberg's Amblin Television, Boardwalk Pictures, and Netflix, and is directed by Yon Motskin.

Akira86 · Sep 26, 2023

ok. so lets get....interesting...

definitely interesting to see how television portrays it. dramatic music and slow camera takes, and long slow cigarette draws.

Baji Boxer · Sep 26, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_Y97rJZXY&pp=ygUEVmljZQ%3D%3D

Looks interesting. Can't say I buy for a second that NHI's are actually visiting his bedroom, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more about that sighting from someone there personally.

JCR · Sep 26, 2023

Forerunner said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_Y97rJZXY&pp=ygUEVmljZQ%3D%3D

He perfectly described sleep paralysis, first time I've heard someone link it to NHI though.

Baji Boxer · Sep 26, 2023

JCR said:
He perfectly described sleep paralysis, first time I've heard someone link it to NHI though.

Yeah, my first thought too. I could see how his situation could lead to such sleeping problems though. Seeing things that you can't talk about because your job is classified could lead to a sleep disorder.

Normal high stress jobs can lead to sleep disorders, so when your job related stress is related to possibly witnessing NHI activity, it makes sense that your sleep disorder could manifest with an NHI twist.

Forerunner · Sep 26, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/dwpasulka/status/1706677530067947845

ROME (CNS) -- When former intelligence official David Grusch testified before Congress in July that the U.S. government had retrieved crashed UFOs and covertly attempted to reverse engineer their alien technology, some Catholics already were primed to debate the compatibility of extraterrestrial intelligence and church doctrine.

That is because debate about non-human intelligence is as old as Christianity, according to the director of the Vatican's space observatory.

Whether it is "angels in the Bible or these crazy creatures in Greek mythology," Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno told Catholic News Service in June, there's "nothing new about that."

But claims about UFOs (now often referred to as UAPs or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) and their mysterious pilots are more specific than speculation about life, microbial or otherwise, in some distant galaxy, and it is only natural that revelations like those asserted by Grusch are felt in a "religious register," said Brenda Denzler.

Author of "The Lure of the Edge," which explored the possible impact of UFOs on religious belief, Denzler said that confirmed extraterrestrial life would necessitate "a change, a shift, in some Christian theologies, a widening of perspective."

For example, "the question of Christ's atonement, was it for all sentient beings throughout the universe? Was it just for sinful humans on earth where the fall occurred?" Denzler told CNS.

"There's all kinds of theological muck that would have to be raised and have to be settled again," she said.

Paul Thigpen, author of the 2022 book, "Extraterrestrial Intelligence and the Catholic Faith," has discussed UFOs on podcasts that have registered more than 100,000 listens. He has argued that Grusch's claims are credible.

Despite denials from Pentagon officials, Thigpen told CNS, "I believe that what he reported is substantially true."

Thigpen said he wrote his book as a "preemptive move" to reassure Catholics who might be perturbed not just by a potential discovery of life on distant planets, but by UFO whistleblowers who say that highly advanced life is already visiting ours.

"I wanted to be able to put a book out there for folks who are going to be hearing, if that happens, 'This contradicts your faith; this disproves your faith,'" he said.

Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religion at the University of North Carolina Wilmington, explained that her research shifted from Marian apparitions and the ecstatic visions of saints to UFOs because she discovered striking similarities between the two phenomena.

Pasulka cited examples of nuns who would see orbs enter their cells and understand them as visiting souls from purgatory, sightings of flying houses and other aerial phenomena from church history.

"The patterns were exact," Pasulka said, "so I took a look at it."

Pasulka gained prominence in UFO circles following the publication of her book, "American Cosmic," which profiles a NASA engineer she believes is connected to the alleged reverse engineering program.

"Tyler," as he is called in the book, joined her in Rome to investigate apparition accounts in the Vatican Archives, and became a Catholic in the process.

"Tyler had as much data as he had about the actual parts of the craft," Pasulka said, "and then he went to the Vatican and was exposed to what's there; now, he converted to Catholicism."

"He changed his view of what this phenomenon is," she said. "That says more than anything right there."

On Sept. 25, the news website Public reported that since Grusch's congressional testimony in July, an additional 30-50 "government employees or contractors" have given testimony to the All-Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), the Department of Defense's office that handles UFO-related claims.

Such claims, when they come from dozens of otherwise respected scientists and intelligence officials, have left many Catholics perplexed.

Catholics' interest in UFOs aligns with Ambrosius' broader observations about their openness to space exploration.

After analyzing Pew Center data, "I did find that Catholics seem to be the most open to the possibility of extraterrestrial life when compared with other Christian traditions," he said, a finding he attributed to the church having learned not to combat scientific findings following the Galileo affair in the 17th century.

But some Catholics are convinced that UFO beliefs clash with Catholic teaching.

Capuchin Father Thomas Weinandy, former member of the Vatican's International Theological Commission and one-time head of the U.S. bishops' office tasked with upholding church teaching, contended that the discovery of rational alien creatures would falsify Christianity.

"Everything was created through (Jesus), and everything will be summed up in him," Father Weinandy said. "It strikes me that there's no sense of a place for aliens within this understanding of the primacy of Jesus as a man."

If claims like Grusch's were proven, "I think in the end it would negate Christianity," Father Weinandy said. "And I don't think that's possible, obviously."

Daniel O'Connor, author of the forthcoming book "Only Man Bears His Image" and philosophy professor at Hudson Valley Community College in New York, contends that some UFO reports might be the result of psychological operations or have demonic origins.

"In every single case that I've looked at, I can't find a single one that has solid evidence of a phenomena transpiring that a demon couldn't easily replicate," he said.

O'Connor noted that various UFO-related cults, including the Solar Temple and Heaven's Gate, culminated in mass suicide incidents.

Every UFO-related belief system he has examined, he said, "leads to something blatantly dark."

While the Vatican Observatory does not study UFOs, Brother Consolmagno said he's often asked what he thinks about the phenomenon. CNS joined the queue and asked him about Grusch's claims when they first began attracting media attention in June.

Despite high-resolution cellphone cameras being ubiquitous, "we do not have any better evidence of Bigfoot, or the Loch Ness Monster, or UFOs," he said.

"I don't believe."

Forerunner · Sep 26, 2023

View: https://youtu.be/YcZvwIchSZw

Krystal and Saagar discuss new UFO whistleblowers reportedly confirming crash retrieval.

UAP/UFO |OT|

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