UK and EU negotiators have agreed on a Brexit deal

[Deleted member 862]

But this would fail hard in the U.K., given that the leave campaign was fought almost entirely on immigration and this would require freedom of movement unless I'm mistaken.

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you're not mistaken but it didn't say that on the ballot, it just said leave. That's the problem it was just so poorly thought out now everyone is trying to decide what "leave" actually means.

we could "leave" and just be in an EEA type deal. That's leave. We could also leave and trade under WTO rules.

This is the problem nobody actually knows what to do so when we say leave it doesn't mean the same thing to people which is why Labour/SNP etc and Rees-Mogg/Boris/ERG currently find themselves on the same side of the argument against it but for very different reasons.

 

[Garfield]

That is why I think Labour/SNP/LD will do a Norway model, it solves the 'still leaving' criticism, of course they will still get criticised by ukip/erg but it is the way out to say, we respected the vote to leave

 

[ManixMiner]

Yep it's a shit sandwich. Now watch Parliament vote it through and we'll be eating it.

The next few months leading upto the expiry of Article 50 are going to be incredibly fought.

 

[Amnesty]

Hope you, and the posters who think like you, will be okay when the far right says the same thing to make decisions against the democratic consensus.

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No, because they would be wrong.

 

[OMEGALUL]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

 

[newline]

The reason I can't see this being voted through parliament is because the hardcore Brexiters that peddled the whole 'close our borders' rhetoric actually don't care about closing our borders at all. I imagine they just peddled that to the UKIP voters in the hopes that we'd crash out of the EU and being open to a bunch of Neo liberal free trade deals with the rest of the world (Singapore style).

I can't wait to see how they try to reconcile with their UKIP little englander voter base why they voted down a deal that ends free movement.

 

[Deleted member 426]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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I don't want Brexit, but how is making 60 million people 'pay dearly' good for anyone? Leaving the EU isn't a moral wrong that's been executed, it's stupidity. Why should Brits be punished for Brexit? If it was the wrong decision then the results will speak for themselves.

 

[Zojirushi]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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That's a super immature attitude.

 

[nekkid]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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Imagine having this attitude.

 

[Armaros]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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Just leaving normally is going to fuck up the UK.

Going out of their way to hit the UK will turn around and damage EU members too.

 

[PJV3]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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i get we don't as a country deserve special treatment, the fuck each other up as much as possible stuff is something to be left in the last century.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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Thanks. Fuck us folks who never wanted to leave, who voted remain and are being forced out against our will to give up our European membership.

 

[ManixMiner]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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If the EU did that, they would lose all public support in the UK for rejoining/staying in.

 

[Thunder]

im not sure why the British people isn't out on the streets trying to stop this?

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48% to 52% ..

We had a vote. It would be political suicide to put another vote through , May will get a no confidence vote and Boris Johnson will most likely take over the role as PM and it will be a hard Brexit. That's the reality of the situation. Labour are not even remotely fit to hold No 10 and most of their constituents voted out as well.

 

[PJV3]

Labour are not even remotely fit to hold No 10

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I mean, have you looked at what the "responsible" party has done to the country?
Corbyn doesn't have the power even within his own party to turn the country into a socialist republic, that's even if he managed a majority in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

48% to 52% ..

We had a vote. It would be political suicide to put another vote through , May will get a no confidence vote and Boris Johnson will most likely take over the role as PM and it will be a hard Brexit. That's the reality of the situation. Labour are not even remotely fit to hold No 10 and most of their constituents voted out as well.

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Load of shite. Majority of Labour voters voted remain.

 

[Thunder]

Load of shite. Majority of Labour voters voted remain.

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60% of them voted leave , wtf are you talking about .

 

[PJV3]

60% of them voted leave , wtf are you talking about .

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I think it was 65% 2 or 3 percent behind the libdem's.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

60% of them voted leave , wtf are you talking about .

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I think it was 65% 2 or 3 percent behind the libdem's.

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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

Tories voted 60% to Leave, which incidentally lines up pretty much perfectly with the 50-64 demographic. Funny that

Edit: Oh, wait, Constituencies. Yeah that's more in line with things:
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-maj...bour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/

This is part of the frustrating problem - political power is in regional basis, rather than population.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

60% of them voted leave , wtf are you talking about .

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It was 65 remain.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Were 5% of UKIP voters drunk?

 

[Thunder]

It was 65 remain.

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64% of Labour constituencies voted to leave . It's a fact have you not seen the vote map.

 

[Deleted member 33082]

48% to 52% ..

We had a vote. It would be political suicide to put another vote through , May will get a no confidence vote and Boris Johnson will most likely take over the role as PM and it will be a hard Brexit. That's the reality of the situation. Labour are not even remotely fit to hold No 10 and most of their constituents voted out as well.

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And what majority would Boris Johnson command in parliament exactly, other than his ERG friends? If his intention is to lead the country towards no deal, dozens of Tories would defect. Including his own brother.

And that's assuming he will even want to deal with utter disaster that no deal will be. He won't.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

64% of Labour constituencies voted to leave . It's a fact have you not seen the vote map.

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I'm talking about individual voters, not constituencies. As were you when you stated 'most of their constituents voted out.' Not really what the data says in a party breakdown.

 

[tuxfool]

64% of Labour constituencies voted to leave . It's a fact have you not seen the vote map.

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He said voters, not constiencies.

 

[ManixMiner]

So December 10/11 is apparently when Parliament will get its vote.

I feel like pippin in LOTR:ROK when he was waiting for the war and couldn't escape it.

 

[Mivey]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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You seem strangely vindictive about this.
In some sense, even this WA will have negative consequences for the UK. Yes, it's no Scorched Earth, burn all bridges thing, but the EU wants to do some minimal trade with the UK too, and minimizing the fallout of Brexit (as far as possible) is also in the natural self interest of the EU. You look at this thing far too emotionally.

 

[Aureon]

If there ever was a time for political grandstanding..
Corbyn chickened out. Call a general election and make brexit the sticking point.
The deal's dead in parliament anyway.

 

[Deleted member 862]

If there ever was a time for political grandstanding..
Corbyn chickened out. Call a general election and make brexit the sticking point.
The deal's dead in parliament anyway.

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just gotta let this play out now. There's no point making any promises until the deal is voted down..

 

[Stop It]

im not sure why the British people isn't out on the streets trying to stop this?

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There was the biggest demonstration since the Iraq war but "The Will of the people" only applies if the people do what she wants.

Hence the call for people in Brexit areas to pressure their MP.

She knows the majority of people oppose her deal. She has a flimsy mandate that she personally destroyed the foundations of in 2017 yet she acts like she commands the majority of people despite this.

To be fair, it's kinda either this, or resigning in disgrace. She's starting down the barrell of an impossible mission and she's going to go down with the ship.

If it wasn't so damaging to the country, I'd admire her stubborn determination but frankly she's doing more harm thsn good. The problem is that the Tories on the hard right want to replace her with someone who will do worse.

 

[Stop It]

I'm disappointed with the EU, they should have been more tough on the UK, kick them out and make them pay dearly for it. fuck this.

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Go read the treaty of Versailles and get back to us with how "punishment" works in European geopolitics.

 

[DBT85]

I have to say I still can't believe she wanted the job. It was only ever a poison chalice and after seeing Gove and Boris fuck off into the sunset alarm bells should surely have been ringing.

 

[newline]

64% of Labour constituencies voted to leave . It's a fact have you not seen the vote map.

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Why are you talking about constituencies when referring to a referendum result? The 2016 Brexit referendum was based on popular vote. 65% of labour voters voted to remain, that's the pertinent fact.

 

[Protome]

Why are you talking about constituencies when referring to a referendum result? The 2016 Brexit referendum was based on popular vote. 65% of labour voters voted to remain, that's the pertinent fact.

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It would be if popular vote won elections, but it's not.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I have to say I still can't believe she wanted the job. It was only ever a poison chalice and after seeing Gove and Boris fuck off into the sunset alarm bells should surely have been ringing.

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Going by the rush to get more Tory seats through election (which backfired), I'd say she wanted it just for power trip reasons, nothing more.

 

[newline]

It would be if popular vote won elections, but it's not.

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That's true however I don't see how it can be political suicide to back a second ref for labour when the majority of their voters already backed remain. At this point there must be even more labour voters that'd vote remain.

 

[Stop It]

Why are you talking about constituencies when referring to a referendum result? The 2016 Brexit referendum was based on popular vote. 65% of labour voters voted to remain, that's the pertinent fact.

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Because that's May's tactics here.

The Remain vote was concentrated in London, the North West, Scotland etc especiallly.

The Labour areas in the North East overwhelmingly voted Brexit. There's many constituencies who voted Brexit who have Labour MPs.

The tactic is that Labour voters would punish their MPs if they didn't carry out "The Will of the People" by voting May's deal through.

Let's ignore that many of these MPs opposed Brexit anyway and got their seats back in 2017 eh May? Polling has shown that many Labour voters have become more pragmatic since the election and would back Corbyn over May to negotiate a different deal anyway.

 

[tiddles]

It would be if popular vote won elections, but it's not.

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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

 

[Protome]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

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Cool, you should quote that to the people making claims about Labour constituencies instead.

 

[Stop It]

Cool, you should quote that to the people making claims about Labour constituencies instead.

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I'm thinking they were trying to back you up!

 

[Protome]

I'm thinking they were trying to back you up!

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You might be right. I might be too grumpy to internet tonight

 

[Tyaren]

A sad day today. :(
Now I am curious to see if the UK parliament will accept the deal or not. I've heard there could be a majority against it. But if they indeed vote against it the UK will crash out of the EU without any deal. I'm sure most don't want to see that happen even less, so they'll probably vote for the deal in the end after all?

 

[jelly]

I wonder how many Lords, Sir's and Dame's will come out of this vote.

 

[LewieP]

A sad day today. :(
Now I am curious to see if the UK parliament will accept the deal or not. I've heard there could be a majority against it. But if they indeed vote against it the UK will crash out of the EU without any deal. I'm sure most don't want to see that happen even less, so they'll probably vote for the deal in the end after all?

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There's still potentially scope for extending the article 50 period.

 

[Tyaren]

There's still potentially scope for extending the article 50 period.

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You mean for more time to renegotiate with the EU? I don't think that is going to happen. The EU already stated there will be no renegotiations. The current deal is the best they will offer May. It would be extremely unwise of them to make more concessions afterwards.

 

[PJV3]

You mean for more time to renegotiate with the EU? I don't think that is going to happen. The EU already stated there will be no renegotiations. The current deal is the best they will offer May. It would be extremely unwise of them to make more concessions afterwards.

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If the UK moves back then they will make time, the DUP making noises today that they are open to a Norway style deal for example

 

[Uzzy]

I wonder how many Lords, Sir's and Dame's will come out of this vote.

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Sir John Hayes, a rather prominent backbench Brexiteer who hadn't come out against the deal and was just this week knighted, today confirmed he would be voting against the deal.

So there's that at least.

 

[Deleted member 33082]

If the UK moves back then they will make time, the DUP making noises today that they are open to a Norway style deal for example

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None of that matters, the future relationship hasn't even started being negotiated yet - whatever type of relationship the UK wants in the future, it will ahve to withdraw from the EU first. And this is the withdrawal agreement, there is nothing else.
Either this agreement and then negotiate on the future relationship, stay in or crash out.

The EU probably will probably make time in case a new referendum or a new GE are announced though. (because the former might lead to remain, and the latter to a new parliament that might approve the withdrawal deal)

 

[LewieP]

You mean for more time to renegotiate with the EU? I don't think that is going to happen. The EU already stated there will be no renegotiations. The current deal is the best they will offer May. It would be extremely unwise of them to make more concessions afterwards.

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If the deal is voted down in parliament, the UK remaining in the EU becomes far more feasible. The EU might be willing to extend the period for negotiation (and probably charge £10b for the privalidge) especially if a new referendum is on the cards.

 

[PJV3]

None of that matters, the future relationship hasn't even started being negotiated yet - whatever type of relationship the UK wants in the future, it will ahve to withdraw from the EU first. And this is the withdrawal agreement, there is nothing else.
Either this agreement and then negotiate on the future relationship, stay in or crash out.

The EU probably will probably make time in case a new referendum or a new GE are announced though. (because the former might lead to remain, and the latter to a new parliament that might approve the withdrawal deal)

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I might be wrong but I think they would extend article 50 for a smoother less damaging move to an EEA type arrangement.