UK Political Era |OT1| Dis United Kingdom

Uzzy · May 9, 2022

Faddy said:
The problem for Starmer here is that his appeal that he is honest and has integrity by offering to resign if the police find him guilty has 2 large holes in it.

1. The Labour Party has already been caught out lying about BeerGate. They lied about who was in attendance, first Angela Rayner wasn't there then it turns out she was. They also lied about it being "spontaneous" when it was in the official diary with the plan on who was ordering the curry.

Pretty sure the 'spontaneous' part originally came from James Cleverley, not anyone at Labour. Though I can stand corrected. The Rayner thing seems to be more a misunderstanding rather than an attempt to conceal anything.

Of course the public probably think both are lies so.

dean_rcg · May 9, 2022

Precisely, the Tory/right wing rag strategy ahs already worked, partygate/beergate, they're all the same so might as well stick with Boris

IpKaiFung · May 9, 2022

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

dean_rcg said:
Precisely, the Tory/right wing rag strategy ahs already worked, partygate/beergate, they're all the same so might as well stick with Boris

I don't give a fuck if they think they are all bad as long as they think Boris was worse, they're all the same has been the mantra in this country forever. I will be miserable if the polling shifts but so far it looks stable, expenses was cross party but it broke in favour of the tories even with heated stables and duckpond housing..

Faddy · May 9, 2022

Uzzy said:
Pretty sure the 'spontaneous' part originally came from James Cleverley, not anyone at Labour. Though I can stand corrected. The Rayner thing seems to be more a misunderstanding rather than an attempt to conceal anything.

Of course the public probably think both are lies so.

Keir wasn't exactly clear about the planned nature of the meal and talked like it came about in an unforseen way.

"We're on the road. At the end of the day we're in the office preparing," he said. "Now that evening, from memory we were doing an online event for members … At some point, this was in the evening, everybody's hungry and a takeaway was ordered.

"It was then delivered to the kitchen of the offices … In Durham, all restaurants and pubs were closed, so takeaways really were the only way you could eat. So this was brought in and at various points people went through to the kitchen and had something to eat, and got on with their work."

Uzzy · May 9, 2022

Faddy said:
Keir wasn't exactly clear about the planned nature of the meal and talked like it came about in an unforseen way.

"We're on the road. At the end of the day we're in the office preparing," he said. "Now that evening, from memory we were doing an online event for members … At some point, this was in the evening, everybody's hungry and a takeaway was ordered.

"It was then delivered to the kitchen of the offices … In Durham, all restaurants and pubs were closed, so takeaways really were the only way you could eat. So this was brought in and at various points people went through to the kitchen and had something to eat, and got on with their work."

Yeah I can see that. The communication around this from Labour has been pretty dire up until today really, and certainly they've given the impression of lying about something, which is damaging regardless of if it's true or not.

IpKaiFung · May 9, 2022

Whatever the outcome, I just think it hilarious that he thought he could suck up to the press and not get rat fucked by them.

Rodelero · May 9, 2022

Faddy said:
Keir wasn't exactly clear about the planned nature of the meal and talked like it came about in an unforseen way.

"We're on the road. At the end of the day we're in the office preparing," he said. "Now that evening, from memory we were doing an online event for members … At some point, this was in the evening, everybody's hungry and a takeaway was ordered.

"It was then delivered to the kitchen of the offices … In Durham, all restaurants and pubs were closed, so takeaways really were the only way you could eat. So this was brought in and at various points people went through to the kitchen and had something to eat, and got on with their work."

He's talking about something entirely unmemorable that happened over a year prior, how exact do you want his recollection to be?

Cronen · May 9, 2022

Will be the first time she's missed it in 59 years.

AceStrimmer · May 9, 2022

Cronen said:
Will be the first time she's missed it in 59 years.

I sincerely don't think she'll make the jubilee....

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

You can go a fair amount of time with mobility issues in your 90s. A gold leaf mobility scooter probably takes a while to get delivered.

Brotherhood93 · May 9, 2022

Saying Starmer should resign for being investigated is just incredibly silly if it is found that he wasn't in breach of any rules. Essentially, you want him to resign for being the victim of a co-ordinated attack by the media and the Tories and if you don't see how fucked that is then that's just dumb.

Of course, as Starmer says, he should resign if it is found he broke the law but trying to make a false equivalence between Starmer and Johnson is obvious in its insincerity.

jelly · May 9, 2022

AceStrimmer said:
I sincerely don't think she'll make the jubilee....

I mean doesn't she need to have that weighty crown and robe stuff for this, her posture looks bad as it is, can't imagine with that on top, no less for the buffon who lied to her.

Dirtyshubb · May 9, 2022

jelly said:
no less for the buffon who lied to her.

Let's not play into this idea that she is some moral person who is outraged by the PM lying to her.

She is another cog in the British elite system and has actively fucked over the people for decades.

Hell, she had more of a problem with a black woman talking about the racism she experienced in the royal family than her son being a nonce, who she actively helped to protect from justice.

jelly · May 9, 2022

IpKaiFung said:
Whatever the outcome, I just think it hilarious that he thought he could suck up to the press and not get rat fucked by them.

Says something that you can't even kiss the ring anymore because it doesn't matter, they don't need you, they have the Tories and have melted enough brains in the UK.

plagiarize · May 9, 2022

The state of the press in the UK is one of the main things that has me so pessimistic about where things are going right now. Any strategy for fixing things, really needs to include a way of fixing the press... and I don't see any good options.

jelly · May 9, 2022

plagiarize said:
The state of the press in the UK is one of the main things that has me so pessimistic about where things are going right now. Any strategy for fixing things, really needs to include a way of fixing the press... and I don't see any good options.

Yeah, it's quite the joke and even if people are reading much less, they very much set the tone and agenda across tv and radio every day, mail has a big presence online as well. It's totally rot of the UK and has been for some time and low and behold things are such a mess right now because of their influence and control.

Jokerman · May 9, 2022

Would they even announce her death if she died that closely to the jubilee? I'm picturing weekend at Bernie's shenanigans. It would sum this country up though if she pegs it the day before.

Memento Mori · May 9, 2022

Depends how badly the Buckingham Palace courtiers want an extra bank holiday. Private Eye's reporter who works in the palace said she was far worse than they let on when she had covid.

jelly · May 9, 2022

Louis XIV France 72 years, 110 days

Bhumibol Adulyadej(Rama IX) Thailand - 70 years, 126 days

Elizabeth II - 70 years, 92 days

Odds on beating Louis…

Kalor · May 9, 2022

Jokerman said:
Would they even announce her death if she died that closely to the jubilee? I'm picturing weekend at Bernie's shenanigans. It would sum this country up though if she pegs it the day before.

It would probably leak out quickly enough that hiding it would be pointless. Though there's been so many fake "Queens dead" stuff that maybe the real leak would also be ignored depending on who reports it.

jelly · May 9, 2022

There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now controlling the transmission, we control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to 720p... and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next two weeks we will control all that you see and hear.

Plum · May 9, 2022

plagiarize said:
The state of the press in the UK is one of the main things that has me so pessimistic about where things are going right now. Any strategy for fixing things, really needs to include a way of fixing the press... and I don't see any good options.

Yep. It is literally impossible to win over the minds and hearts of the people if every single morning they hear '''''''unbiased centrist journalists''''''' on Good Morning Britain and see ''''''the voice of the people''''''' on the newspaper stands. Our only real hope for a paradigm shift is if, miraculously, the internet generation both becomes the majority, and does so without most of them having been shifted right anyway.

Uzzy · May 9, 2022

Well this would change things if true.

LordZap · May 9, 2022

According to that guardian article, Labour has compiled time-stamped logs of WhatsApp chats, documents and video edits that prove Starmer continued to work afterwards. Wonder if they release it publicly.

RedSparrows · May 9, 2022

I can't see Starmer resigning, unless he's hoping for a fuck you torpedo to the shit ship Johnson, knowing he will be fined. That doesn't ring true for me.

pulsemyne · May 9, 2022

If that is accurate then there's no way they can issue a fine. Seems like labour kept things and didn't delete them like a certain other party did...

Koukalaka · May 9, 2022

To this day, I'm still kind of amazed that The Sun posted a far-right "the Jews are trying to control everything" conspiracy theory as a big news story during the 2019 election, deleted it later when people noticed this, and precisely no media coverage/scrutiny resulted from this.

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

Uzzy said:
Well this would change things if true.

A dozen Corbynistas and CCHQ cried out in pain.

Why didn't they just release it when this all kicked off?
Very nice of the party to make a dossier but the story ruined the tory party election fall out.

CD_93 · May 9, 2022

RedSparrows said:
I can't see Starmer resigning, unless he's hoping for a fuck you torpedo to the shit ship Johnson, knowing he will be fined. That doesn't ring true for me.

He won't back down if fined. He has put his entire political stake on this.

They are obviously just incredibly sure that he won't be.

Yesterzine · May 9, 2022

PJV3 said:
A dozen Corbynistas and CCHQ cried out in pain.

Why would you imagine a Corbynista would give a shit if Starmer or Wes Streeting is leader of the red tories?

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

Yesterzine said:
Why would you imagine a Corbynista would give a shit if Starmer or Wes Streeting is leader of the red tories?

It was a joke and nothing more, I saw a few rubbing their hands at him struggling, I didn't have a problem with Corbyn at all. Well outside of him being too stubborn and thinking he should have passed the torch on sooner.

Gotta be honest, I was pondering how to get Burnham back in the PLP in time if he went, would be an upgrade but he uses the nationalisation word a bit too much to get nominated probably.

CD_93 · May 9, 2022

PJV3 said:
Why didn't they just release it when this all kicked off?
Very nice of the party to make a dossier but the story ruined the tory party election fall out.

The investigated was opened after the election. Even if they had this on hand, it wouldn't have stopped it being a story which every news outlet jumped on.

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

CD_93 said:
The investigated was opened after the election. Even if they had this on hand, it wouldn't have stopped it being a story.

The press started cranking up before the election, he should have killed the story, it's way too flat footed and he needs to do better in a general, because they are going to throw all sorts of shit at him in the campaign.

CD_93 · May 9, 2022

PJV3 said:
he should have killed the story

Easy to say, isn't it :)

Durham Police already killed the story once.

I wouldn't be putting a bet on this one, dossier or not.

PJV3 · May 9, 2022

CD_93 said:
Easy to say, isn't it :)

Durham Police already killed the story once.

I wouldn't be putting a bet on this one, dossier or not.

Some poor bloody underlings will get fined or something.

Soap · May 10, 2022

Hmm, they seem incredibly confident… Still, if there is no fine then I can already see the Daily Mail headline about police corruption.

JonnyDBrit · May 10, 2022

That are some prime bothsides.jpg

Equivocate the problem off of their guy

IDreamOfHime · May 10, 2022

The media is a fucking joke.

'If he is innocent like he says, then him saying he'll quit is an empty gesture as he knows he's not guilty of anything and won't be quitting'

Then why the fuck have you be dragging this story on and on for over a week?
Jesus Christ, they're not happy that they've been outsmarted.

Plum · May 10, 2022

The biggest problem for Labour here is that they've likely garnered the wrath of the media. As the Johnny Depp case shows, if you ever dare to outsmart, attack or criticise them they will never forget. They'll form up into a mass of constant, never-ending smears and will not stop until your image is in shatters.

I think Labour is fucked tbh.

dean_rcg · May 10, 2022

Labour's always fucked, especially by most of the UK's media.

PJV3 · May 10, 2022

dean_rcg said:
Labour's always fucked, especially by most of the UK's media.

Just have to hope we get a 97 sort of situation, where public opinion was beyond shifting and simply had enough of the tories to the point of actually voting them out. It's always going to be a hostile media environment.

Soap · May 10, 2022

Again, and I am very insistent on this, shitting on Labour will only get you so far when the electorate are dealing with record inflation and a whole heap of other issues. When Corbyn was in power, it was mostly lower earners getting fucked but now that it is spreading into the Tory middle class they are truly in trouble. Obviously, I and many others care about lower earners, but most voters only care about themselves and that's the real difference this time.

Timmm · May 10, 2022

PJV3 said:
It was a joke and nothing more, I saw a few rubbing their hands at him struggling, I didn't have a problem with Corbyn at all. Well outside of him being too stubborn and thinking he should have passed the torch on sooner.

Gotta be honest, I was pondering how to get Burnham back in the PLP in time if he went, would be an upgrade but he uses the nationalisation word a bit too much to get nominated probably.

Most of the laughing is at the very obvious double standard that Gawge explained a couple pages back. Its very funny that Labour chose to focus on the hypocrisy of the government with covid rules (especially after seeing how they got away with it when Cummings did it too), instead of the excess deaths or clear corruption during covid, only to also be guilty of it themselves (albeit less egregiously)

There is no way Burnham keeps up the nationalisation rhetoric if he tries to be Labour leader again. He will shift to the right.

dean_rcg · May 10, 2022

Malthouse saying the PM shouldn't have to copy Starmer if he resigns...

Uzzy · May 10, 2022

Enjoying the complete meltdown of Dan Hodges over this, he's busy calling for every dinner Starmer had to be investigated.

Gawge · May 10, 2022

On the media, to be honest, maybe this will be a good thing, a bit of sink or swim for Starmer.

The press by and large have absolutely monstered the Tories for the last 6 months, which has indeed seen bad polling and bad local election results, however the result was big gains for Lib Dems and the Greens (in England). If he comes through this maybe he will appreciate winning some arguments and start trying to win votes and appeal to the type of areas that are lukewarm on Labour*.

*Obviously more likely is the (perhaps correct) assumption that the majority of those Lib Dem and Green votes go to Labour at a GE, steady as she goes.

Unclebenny · May 10, 2022

Soap said:
Again, and I am very insistent on this, shitting on Labour will only get you so far when the electorate are dealing with record inflation and a whole heap of other issues. When Corbyn was in power, it was mostly lower earners getting fucked but now that it is spreading into the Tory middle class they are truly in trouble. Obviously, I and many others care about lower earners, but most voters only care about themselves and that's the real difference this time.

This is absolutely true.

I also think there is whatever the inverse of diminishing returns on middling political scandals these days. The bar for resignation is now set incredibly high.

If the Tories had an identical scandal to what Labour is having now, i.e. one event that might have gone over some very specific laws, then no one cares.

What people care about is when it becomes obvious it was repeated, flagrant rule breaking. It took a long time for that perception to take hold but the Tories earned it.

Bung that on top of the cost of living crisis (which has also been handled abysmally) and the Tories are facing a long road back. Beergate isn't their escape plan.

PJV3 · May 10, 2022

Timmm said:
Most of the laughing is at the very obvious double standard that Gawge explained a couple pages back. Its very funny that Labour chose to focus on the hypocrisy of the government with covid rules (especially after seeing how they got away with it when Cummings did it too), instead of the excess deaths or clear corruption during covid, only to also be guilty of it themselves (albeit less egregiously)

There is no way Burnham keeps up the nationalisation rhetoric if he tries to be Labour leader again. He will shift to the right.

I'm not going to dwell on this too much as it's going around in circles, but the other stuff has been a focus too it's sometimes you go with the issue that sticks with the public, and it was mostly driven by internal leaking that absolutely dragged Johnson through the mud and showed him up in long drawn out farce.

I don't really care about Labour being a bit hypocritical or whatever, this is year 12 of these lying manipulating bastards, the party of Lynton Crosby etc. So team "red and blue" stuff isn't a problem for me, I hate the government and Johnson a million times more than a disappointing Starmer being a bit of an opportunist.

The tories decided in the election to make this a big issue and I ain't amplifying their shite, like the turd who gave those quotes to the Times.

CD_93 · May 10, 2022

Enjoy the replies with your second / third cup of coffee.

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