Zeroth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
Oh, that's not Giovanni then.

I am definitely wrong.



Judging by the photo, I presumed it allows you to change Pokemon data while you're accessing the PC?
No, I think the fields are complementary to the emulator, not something that the game sends a request for. It's more about what information can be edited in the game live, as nowadays most information can be edited in the older games through different software.
 

Brofield

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,896
Mario FPS in Delfino Plaza, huh? Those raccoons hoarding shine sprites in their hut should probably run; Mario isn't going to be fetching them blue coins anymore.



Last time I post about this stuff, I prmomise, but I wrote up a summarised list of all the cancelled / considered games and localisations from that NOA spreadsheet, so I might as well post it somewhere.

Cancelled Games:
  • マリパボード | "Mariopa Board"
    • Memory Configuration: 64M 4kEEPROM
    • Estimated Completion Date: January - February 2006
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 4
    • Developer: Hudson Soft
    • Genre: Board Game
    • Player Count: 4
    • Localisation Workload: GC版の半分くらいのテキスト量 | "Half as much text as the GC version."
    • Game Features:
      • ボード(ペーパー)10枚同梱 | "10 (paper) boards included."
      • ボードとGBAゲームを組み合わせて遊ぶ | "Play by combining the board with GBA games."
      • ボード制作に時間を要する。DSと同サイズのパッケージ予定 | "It will take time to make the board. Package to be the same size as DS."
Cancelled Localisations:
  • Drill Dozer (PAL)
    • Estimated Release Date: May 16th 2006
    • Games Features: 欧州版ローカライズ開始 | "European localisation started."
    • Eventually released on Wii U Virtual Console in 2016.
  • Digitylish - DIALHEX (US)
    • Product Code: BVBE
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
  • Digitylish - ORBITAL (US)
    • Product Code: BVEP
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
  • Digitylish - DIGIDRIVE (US)
    • Product Code: BVHE
  • Digitylish - DOTSTREAM (US)
    • Product Code: BVCE
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
  • Digitylish - SOUNDVOYAGER (US)
    • Product Code: BVGE
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
  • Digitylish - BOUNDISH (US)
    • Product Code: BVDE
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
  • Digitylish - COLORIS (US)
    • Product Code: BVAE
    • Estimated Completion Date: November 2005
Considered Localisations:
  • Calciobit (International)
    • Localisation Workload: 多め。チーム名、選手名が多い | "A lot (of text). Many team and player names."
  • RIQ [AKA: Rhythm Tengoku] (International)
    • Localisation Workload: テキスト量は少ない | "Small amount of text."
    • Game Features:
      • 社外ミュージシャンと共同開発 | "Co-developed with outside musicians."
      • 収録曲はこのゲームのための書き下ろしとなる予定なので | "The songs will be newly written for this game."
      • 全世界共通でOK | "Worldwide OK."

Unreleased Games:
  • たるたるドンキー | "Tarutaru Donkey"
    • Estimated Completion Date: July 2006
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 4
    • Developer: Paon
    • Genre: Racing
    • Player Count: 4
    • Game Features: 2006年夏発売目標 | "Targeting a release in Summer 2006."
    • Project moved to Revolution; released in 2007 as 'Donkey Kong Barrel Blast'.
  • スーパーペーパーマリオブロス | "Super Paper Mario Bros."
    • Estimated Release Date: Q3 2006
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: Intelligent Systems
    • Genre: Action / Adventure
    • Localisation Workload: 多い。アドベンチャー部分のテキストがそれなりに多い "A lot. A good amount of text in the adventure portion."
    • Project moved to Revolution; released in 2007 as 'Super Paper Mario'.
  • ウラキャラ | "Background Character"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: skip
    • Genre: Action
    • Project moved to Revolution; released in 2008 as 'Captain Rainbow'.
  • カービィ | "Kirby"
    • Product Code: GKVJ (JP)
    • Estimated Completion Date: June 2006
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: HAL
    • Genre: Action
    • Game Features: SFCカービィスーパーDXのようなまとめ方 | "Put together like Super Famicom title 'Kirby Super Deluxe."
    • Project rebooted on Revolution; released in 2011 as 'Kirby's Return to Dream Land'.
Considered Localisations:
  • Densetsu no Quiz Ou Ketteisen (International)
    • Localisation Workload:
      • かなり多い | "Quite a lot."
      • 問題8500問のアレンジ必要 | "Need to arrange 8,500 questions."
      • 音声認識調整必要 | "Voice recognition adjustment required."

Unreleased Games:
  • ポケモンピンボール | "Pokémon Pinball"
    • Estimated Release Date: September 2006 (Worldwide)
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: Fuse Games
    • Genre: Pinball
    • Communication Functions: Wi-Fi Connection
    • Game Features:
      • 本制作内定。日・米・欧2006年9月発売目標 | Production offered. Targeting launch in September 2006 in Japan, the U.S., and Europe.
      • Wi-Fi対応予定(通信対戦) | "WI-Fi support planned (Communication Battle)."
  • Geist DS
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: n-space
    • Genre: FPS
    • Communication Functions: Wi-Fi Connection
  • Gauntlet DS
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: Backbone Entertainment
    • A complete build of the game has already leaked.
  • PLUCKER
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: NightLight Studios
    • Game Features:
      • 2006年4月末まで実験の予定 | "Plans to prototype until the end of April 2006."
      • マジックザギャザリングを作ったリチャード・ガーフィールド氏からの提案 | "Proposal from Richard Garfield, the creator of Magic the Gathering."
      • カードゲームをフィギュアに置き換えたストラテジーゲーム | "A strategy game that replaces card games with figures."
    • Video game adaptation of 'The Plucker' by Gerald Brom. WIP models have been released elsewhere in the past.
  • Digitylish DS
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: skip
    • Game Features:
      • 2作程度試作中。並行して他にも企画検討中 | "2 prototypes in progress. Considering other projects in parallel."
      • 6ヶ月実験を延長して新たなビジネスモデルを模索する | "Extend the prototype period for 6 months to explore a new business model."
    • "New business model" could potential refer to DSiWare and/or WiiWare, the form multiple bit Generations / Art Style titles were eventually released in that generation.
Considered Localisations:
  • Touch Panic (International)
    • Localisation Workload: かなり少ない | "Not much (text)."
  • Project Hacker: Kakusei (International)
    • Localisation Workload: かなり多い | "Quite a lot (of text)."
  • Contact (International)
    • Game Features:
      • マザー風の、タッチスクリーンを活かしたRPG | "Mother-like RPG played with the touch screen."
      • 海外での可能性検討予定・NOA/NOE評価予定 | "Considering overseas possibilities. NOA/NOE evaluation planned."
    • North American localisation eventually picked up by Atlus USA.
  • Tabi no Yubisashi Kaiwachou DS (International)
    • Localisation "Undecided" at the time of the document's creation.
  • Densetsu no Stafy 4 (International)
    • Localisation Workload: かなり多い | "Quite a lot (of text)."
  • Chōsōjū Mecha MG (International)
    • Localisation "Undecided" at the time of the document's creation.

Unreleased Games:
  • テニス | "Tennis"
    • Developer / Development Division: Nintendo EAD (group seeming not allocated)
    • Genre: Sports
    • Game Features: ハードローンチ近辺を予定 | "Scheduled for hardware launch."
    • Presumably folded into 'Wii Sports'.
  • テニス | "Hammer Man"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 2
    • Developer: Nintendo Software Technology
    • More well-known by the public working title 'Project H.A.M.M.E.R.'
    • Game Features:
      • 北米で売れる三国無双タイプのゲームを目指す | "Aiming to be a Dynasty Warriors type game that sells in North America."
      • ローンチの予定。| "Scheduled for launch."
  • Sphere
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: n-space
    • Game Features:
      • 12月中旬まで実験延長 | "Prototype period extended until mid-December."
      • 女スパイの潜入アクション | "Female Spy Infiltration Action."
      • 複数のリモートカメラを切り替えるメタルギア的なもの | "Metal Gear-like, switching between multiple remote cameras."
  • メトロイド | "Metroid'
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 1
    • Developer: Intelligent Systems
    • Game Features:
      • 2月末まで試作 | "Prototype until the end of February."
      • メトロイドプライムからある程度時間をおいての発売 | "Release some time after Metroid Prime."
  • プロジェクトX | "Project X"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: Retro Studios
    • Game Features:
      • 2006年2月まで実験契約 | "Experimental contract until February 2006."
      • ゼルダ時のオカリナに出てきたシークを主人公にしたアクションゲーム | "An action game featuring the Sheik from Zelda: Ocarina of Time."
  • KNIGHT Wars
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: Kuju
    • Game Features:
      • バタリオンウォーズの資産を使ったファンタジー系ストラテジー | "Fantasy-based strategy game using Battalion Wars assets."
      • 2006年3月末まで実験 | "Prototype until the end of March 2006."
  • 剣格闘テーマ | "Sword Fighting Theme"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 4
    • Developer: Y'sK
    • Genre: Fighting
    • Game Features: 2006年3月末まで実験。2007年2~3月発売?| "Prototype until the end of March 2006, to be released in February or March 2007?"
  • レボR | "RevoR"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 3
    • Developer: HAL
    • Genre: Racing
    • Game Features: ポップアート調のグラフィックを目指す | "Aim for pop art style graphics."
  • ジャンプスーパースターズ | "Jump Super Stars"
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 2
    • Developer: Gambarion? / Shueisha
  • DDR MARIO 2
    • Development Division: Nintendo SPD Production Group 2
    • Developer: Konami
    • Genre: Dance Simulation
    • Game Features: 未着手 | "Development not started yet."

TIL about Pokemon Pinball on DS (that would have been such an easy buy), but Gauntlet DS not only existed but a complete build of the game exists???
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,869
None of those are "violations" of "common C" practices. This is like when someone says "never begin a sentence with but."
...

How do I put it mildly...

No, no, no, and no. The heck?

...


Lots of interesting debate about this. As a CS major coming round to the end of my studies, it's interesting to see that a lot of things I've indeed been taught as big no nos are more like training wheels haha.

I'm currently under the gun on some Java assignments right now actually so it's been on the mind.
 

tadaima

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,849
Tokyo, Japan
Lots of interesting debate about this. As a CS major coming round to the end of my studies, it's interesting to see that a lot of things I've indeed been taught as big no nos are more like training wheels haha.

I'm currently under the gun on some Java assignments right now actually so it's been on the mind.
Some of these posts are misleading. When you are working on projects in large teams (or even by yourself), keeping those good practices will make code more maintainable and easier to work with, especially as time passes by. Corners are usually cut because of time restraints. Optimisations can come at a late stage. Keep your code organised first and foremost!
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
Lots of interesting debate about this. As a CS major coming round to the end of my studies, it's interesting to see that a lot of things I've indeed been taught as big no nos are more like training wheels haha.

I'm currently under the gun on some Java assignments right now actually so it's been on the mind.
I wouldn't really call these practices training wheels. In many fields, getting that degree of performance on modern devices simply isn't necessary. In such cases, prioritizing code maintainability is still key. The goal is often not to create the most efficient code possible, but to create the code that wastes the least programmer time - both yours and others' - in the long run.

Video games are one of the exceptions due to their tendency to consistently push the envelope of what can run in real time. Abandoning these 'best' practices in favor of performance is a shift in strategy more than leaving beginner tendencies behind.
 
Last edited:

GameDev

Member
Aug 29, 2018
564
Lots of interesting debate about this. As a CS major coming round to the end of my studies, it's interesting to see that a lot of things I've indeed been taught as big no nos are more like training wheels haha.

I'm currently under the gun on some Java assignments right now actually so it's been on the mind.

They're not so much training wheels as wishful thinking on the part of academics. In an academic's ideal world, all you have to worry about is algorithmic complexity and code maintainability and you have all the time in the world to write documentation. In the real world, code has to run on physical hardware and the way the compiler/OS/hardware likes code can be an pain for actual human beings to make and maintain. Not to mention deadlines can throw a wrench into everything.

I recommend this talk as a good intro into the differences between the world people like engine programmers and what they teach you in school: https://youtu.be/rX0ItVEVjHc
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,869
I wouldn't really call these practices training wheels. In many fields, getting that degree of performance on modern devices simply isn't necessary. In such cases, prioritizing code maintainability is still key. The goal is often not to create the most efficient code possible, but to create the code that wastes the least programmer time - both yours and others' - in the long run.

Video games are one of the exceptions due to their tendency to consistently push the envelope of what can run in real time. Abandoning these 'best' practices in favor of performance is a shift in strategy more than leaving beginner tendencies behind.
True enough. It's a little more complicated than just that. What I meant was there are indeed certainly use cases where avoiding these best practices helps.

I tend to agree with you though that overall such things should be avoided unless you're sure you need them. Like making "unsafe" code in Rust with the understanding that you're abandoning arguably the best feature (guarantee that there are no run time memory errors in any compiled program), because the benefits *can* outweigh the problems.

In general, making modular, clean and concise code is definitely better not just for your own sanity but especially for your code to be understood by others (which arguably is even more important than making it make sense to you).

Edit:
I missed these posts so adding my thoughts:
Some of these posts are misleading. When you are working on projects in large teams (or even by yourself), keeping those good practices will make code more maintainable and easier to work with, especially as time passes by. Corners are usually cut because of time restraints. Optimisations can come at a late stage. Keep your code organised first and foremost!
I tend to agree (as mentioned above). It's just interesting that there are legitimate reasons to stray, ton you're right, imo they should generally be agree most of the groundwork is done and you're optimizing without trying to add functionality afterwards (for the most part).
I recommend this talk as a good intro into the differences between the world people like engine programmers and what they teach you in school: https://youtu.be/rX0ItVEVjHc
Yup. Not surprisingly we've got a lot of differing opinions and yeah I get where you're coming from. Thank you for sharing the video, I'm sure it'll be an interesting one.
 
Last edited:

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
25,025
Yeah, it's definitely not Reginleiv. Beyond the developer difference, the genre is listed as fighting game.

I'll just copy all the text about the game straight from the spreadsheet, if anyone wants to try and use this to figure out what game this could possibly be.
  • Title: タイトル
  • Production Group: 4
  • Developer: ワイズケイ
  • Genre: 対戦格闘
  • Game Features: 2006年3月末まで実験。2007年2~3月発売?
For anyone wondering about Y'sK, they were formed in 2003 by ex-Data East, Game Arts, Human, Yukes' and ASCII staff. Over their 6 or so years in business they worked on a couple non-traditional fighters (TMNT Smash-Up, Firepro Returns) and several beat 'em ups (Kenka Bancho 1-2, Wolf of Shinjuku). Notably they never worked with Nintendo on anything directly so it'd have been cool to see what this might've been.
 

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
20,072
Boston, MA
unknown.png



Old news, Ensata is "compilable" with the given leaks in the past. But now, an executable build is being distributed.


On another unrelated note, we found out the end credits cutscene has a mouse cursor in the middle.

 

Eblo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,643
Rent by the hour? I wouldn't be surprised if some fledgling speedrunner had managed to beat the game at one of those hotels.
 

Boss-

Member
Apr 20, 2018
383
I assumed they already compared the rom from that build to the retail version of the game?
 

Eblo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,643
Super Mario 64 has a fabled test map like Ocarina of Time now? Neat. The lighting also looks more dramatic in those screenshots compared to the final game.
 

RingoGaSuki

Member
Apr 22, 2019
2,471
Pokemon Pinball DS would have been fantastic, I remember having a great time with the original and RS. Wonder why they never actually went through with it. Why is this the first I've ever heard of Contact too?! It looks great, I'll have to check it out eventually.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,673
So are we basically done regarding beta Pokemon leaks in the vein of the legendary SpaceWorld GS demo? We still are missing the piece of Gen 1's beta where Gorochu was made for, only seeing its back sprite IIRC.

Also, surely there's a fuckton of HD renders and the like, maybe even from non-gaming material in this leak somewhere, right? The Pokémon TCG, particularly the e-Reader era had some sharp renders never used elsewhere I'd LOVE to see HD direct-feed versions of (specifically Mewtwo from Expedition).
 

ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
751
So are we basically done regarding beta Pokemon leaks in the vein of the legendary SpaceWorld GS demo? We still are missing the piece of Gen 1's beta where Gorochu was made for, only seeing its back sprite IIRC.
Everything wack0 had for mainline Pokemon is out there (I have no idea about the other series and games but would assume so), so as far as seeing new designs that's finished. There's a small chance whoever leaked Gen 3 did it incorrectly like with what happened with Gen 4 at first, but that'd really be the only shot at more Pokemon designs themselves from this leak in particular.

As for other info from the Pokemon sources such as maps and remnants of builds we don't have:
Gen 1- There's occasionally minor discoveries made in the margins of files where things shouldn't be, like Red's father's sprite having been placed and then replaced by the guy who gives you Lapras in Silph Co, or partially figuring out why the Cinnabar coast glitch happens in Gen 1 (experimental change Morimoto made for Yellow that was reverted for Yellow but accidentally made its way into the RB source), but due to the actual file creation dates being wiped to 1998/3/1 there's a lot of dead ends with researching RG's development.
Gen 2- So we have the .SXY files (Structure X,Y, essentially all warps, coord events, bg events, and NPCs that a map has) for two builds that aren't out there; June 15th and July 14th (SW99 is August 17th). There's a ton of stuff in there that I couldn't cover in one post, like Burned Tower originally being an actual tower before being turned into a 3-floor dungeon with an Entei static encounter in B2F, or knowing the exact location of the Ecruteak Pharmacist, or Ice Path's original west entrance being in Blackthorn before Dragon's Den existed, or the Goldenrod Game Corner being in the Underground Path itself, but unfortunately I am literally one of two people researching these files at the moment and there's just so, so much to cover. There were also some bug testing correspondence .txts in mons2 that have also filled in a few gaps (like apparently Suicune was physically placed somewhere in Johto but they mentioned they would be "changing its habitat" soon and this was unfortunately from May 99 so there's no info on where), but there's still a lot of things about Gen 2 to discover.
Gen 3/4- I'm focusing most of my attention on Gen 1/2 but I do know that those two generations have a few devoted researchers, one of them even found that Meteor Falls was supposed to be the dungeon with the ice cave instead of Shoal Cave at one point.

Also, don't expect the Gen 1 fronts anytime soon or at all. Even getting the backs or any of the stuff in this entire leak was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, the only way those are getting out is if Game Freak themselves release them (like was the case with the Tajiri manga and that one day Ishihara decided to show that binder) or someone manages to get their hands on the RG source, which I can imagine is multitudes harder nowadays after all of this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,673
Everything wack0 had for mainline Pokemon is out there (I have no idea about the other series and games but would assume so), so as far as seeing new designs that's finished. There's a small chance whoever leaked Gen 3 did it incorrectly like with what happened with Gen 4 at first, but that'd really be the only shot at more Pokemon designs themselves from this leak in particular.

As for other info from the Pokemon sources such as maps and remnants of builds we don't have:
Gen 1- There's occasionally minor discoveries made in the margins of files where things shouldn't be, like Red's father's sprite having been placed and then replaced by the guy who gives you Lapras in Silph Co, or partially figuring out why the Cinnabar coast glitch happens in Gen 1 (experimental change Morimoto made for Yellow that was reverted for Yellow but accidentally made its way into the RB source), but due to the actual file creation dates being wiped to 1998/3/1 there's a lot of dead ends with researching RG's development.
Gen 2- So we have the .SXY files (Structure X,Y, essentially all warps, coord events, bg events, and NPCs that a map has) for two builds that aren't out there; June 15th and July 14th (SW99 is August 17th). There's a ton of stuff in there that I couldn't cover in one post, like Burned Tower originally being an actual tower before being turned into a 3-floor dungeon with an Entei static encounter in B2F, or knowing the exact location of the Ecruteak Pharmacist, or Ice Path's original west entrance being in Blackthorn before Dragon's Den existed, or the Goldenrod Game Corner being in the Underground Path itself, but unfortunately I am literally one of two people researching these files at the moment and there's just so, so much to cover. There were also some bug testing correspondence .txts in mons2 that have also filled in a few gaps (like apparently Suicune was physically placed somewhere in Johto but they mentioned they would be "changing its habitat" soon and this was unfortunately from May 99 so there's no info on where), but there's still a lot of things about Gen 2 to discover.
Gen 3/4- I'm focusing most of my attention on Gen 1/2 but I do know that those two generations have a few devoted researchers, one of them even found that Meteor Falls was supposed to be the dungeon with the ice cave instead of Shoal Cave at one point.

Also, don't expect the Gen 1 fronts anytime soon or at all. Even getting the backs or any of the stuff in this entire leak was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, the only way those are getting out is if Game Freak themselves release them (like was the case with the Tajiri manga and that one day Ishihara decided to show that binder) or someone manages to get their hands on the RG source, which I can imagine is multitudes harder nowadays after all of this.
Wowzers, thanks for the rundown! :O

But aren't Red & Green's source in the leak or just the betas so not the true full source where every last byte can be uncovered? We got most of the goods for Gold & Silver via that Spaceworld 97 demo right? There was the 99 demo which had more near final elements but some holdovers from the 97 demo IIRC.

And back to the RG back sprite thing, that was from a beta specifically? There was another than had some front sprites like a Fennec fox Pokemon (not Fennekin) and some other really oddball Pokemon, which was that from again?
 

ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
751
But aren't Red & Green's source in the leak or just the betas so not the true full source where every last byte can be uncovered? We got most of the goods for Gold & Silver via that Spaceworld 97 demo right? There was the 99 demo which had more near final elements but some holdovers from the 97 demo IIRC.

And back to the RG back sprite thing, that was from a beta specifically? There was another than had some front sprites like a Fennec fox Pokemon (not Fennekin) and some other really oddball Pokemon, which was that from again?
There are no prototypes of Gen 1 in the leak other than some debug builds of English RB/Y and the RG source was also not in there. Everything that was found were files leftover in the source of English RB, which is a modification of Japanese Blue's source, which was itself a modification of RG's source. The backs are located in blue8m/MONSDATA/MONSB*.DAT and were only there because Gen 1 used the same backs for the entire generation, unlike the fronts which were removed to clean up the source when it was Japanese Blue.

The other prototype sprites were for Gen 2, from an archive of project files from when the game was shelved from May to September 98 during Yellow's development. They are dated 98/5/6 but are likely from 1996 and 1997, their order is consistent with a test party that the Gen 1 Rival (literally, not some party Blue was intended to have but literally the same slot as Gen 1) had during "SW97's" development featuring the three base Kanto starters and the three base SW97 starters if you use the "PM2F" index numbers. They are viewable here.