This is my thought. This is a significant win as far as the man-in-the-street goes. And I've long been skeptical of Warren and would still prefer Gillibrand or Harris, though I think Warren's jumped to third on my list of the serious contenders.
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US PoliERA 2018 |OT10| McConnell is "mule piss"
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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This is my thought. This is a significant win as far as the man-in-the-street goes. And I've long been skeptical of Warren and would still prefer Gillibrand or Harris, though I think Warren's jumped to third on my list of the serious contenders.
I think I can genuinely say they weren't implying she claimed membership because that's the crux of their statement. You can't say "But DNA is DNA -- certainly good enough for a "vague" connection.", but that's not really understanding their arguments. There's more to being Native American than a DNA test, and this has long been an argument of Native American communities, especially in Oklahoma. And Warren didn't actually engage head on with the criticisms on the left and from the Native American communities, just the bad faith ones.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...s-no-dna-test-to-prove-youre-native-american/
Can you provide a link to a news story or a site that she received benefits she did not deserve because of this?
OMG I engaged on a subforum (one in which I used to be a part of heavily at the old place) because I was bored of Twitter and my other forum today. You got me!
Yeah maybe before doing this she should have spoken with the people you know she claims to have an affinity for.
Going after her with the idea that she's making Trump look good is bullshit (which again is really what most are actually upset about), but trying to downplay criticism coming from the very people at the centre of this, that's also bullshit
No shit, and I wasn't talking about you originally, yet you felt the need to @ me, so I replied.
This is the kind of stuff I was talking about. It's like people forgot all the daily bullshit that was supposed to torpedo winning Democratic presidential campaigns.
I feel like a nice midterm win is what we need to take the edge off.
I'm sorry the Cherokee nation hasn't been, and isn't getting attention they perhaps deserve more of. But this isn't leftist criticism so much as it is hanging on to an issue made public. Were they so interested in reaching out, they would have told Trump to can it and tell everyone what it means to have respect for others and what it means to know where you come from. Instead they wait for the woman to say something, then they come out and criticize THAT. Good job.
Also you can take her to task and not claim she's now disqualified from running and "done"
Though again that is also coming mostly from the people who only want to examine this through the Trump lens
Though again that is also coming mostly from the people who only want to examine this through the Trump lens
Man I wish I'd waited sixty seconds to make my last post
Maybe she should have waited until after the midterms to try and become queen of Native America though.
Oh cool sorry I forgot that the leftist position is that racism isn't real
It takes some serious effort to twist this so that now Warren is being victimized by the sexist Cherokee Nation.
Congratulations
But that's literally the criticism that was leveled against her. By the president.
*bangs head against desk*
Why do we live in a world where Republicans can define the cultural heritage (or religion. Or race. Or gender) of others, then those people get mocked for being defensive about it? Can you imagine the outrage if a democratic candidate attacked Trump with something along the lines of "your family isn't really German you fucking mutt, and you talk like a Catholic." Would the outrage be against Trump for correcting the record with a blood test and receipts?
Many Native American tribes have come out against Trump's statements against Warren. Trying to police them about how they criticize Warren and then saying that it's sexist if they do is really shitty.
I was wrong about that. Still, her decision to mis-characterize herself was questionable to put it lightly, and even Native American groups have criticized her.
Like a lot of things. People really just don't like getting called on their bullshit. There's a lot of knee-jerkin' in response.
Obama and Biden stumping in Nevada
https://www.ktnv.com/news/obama-biden-headlining-rallies-in-las-vegas
https://www.ktnv.com/news/obama-biden-headlining-rallies-in-las-vegas
There is a lot of sexism, especially again in the rush to declare her candidacy cancelled, but it ain't coming from the fucking Cherokee Nation
Anyways, it's early, but
Seems like Jaime Herrera Beutler is super unknown for an incumbent. Not great for her.
- Carolyn Long is a political science professor who has never run for office before.48% favorable rating; 20% unfavorable; 33% don't know
Based on 51 interviews
- Jaime Herrera Beutler is the incumbent, first elected in 2010.39% favorable rating; 30% unfavorable; 31% don't know
Based on 51 interviews
Seems like Jaime Herrera Beutler is super unknown for an incumbent. Not great for her.
And with this first self-inflicted controversy I declare the 2020 primary has officially begun.
Biden really is gonna be the candidate that gets shoved down our throats if he runs.
dude keeps denying it, but come on
I legitimately don't understand this argument.
Trump's attacks on Warren, which are bad-faith and inescapable because they're just bullshit, are separable from the Native American criticisms of Warren, which are real and valid and completely unaddressed.
Are we not allowed to talk about the latter because Trump once talked about something similar?
Yeah. You can call out certain groups for hating the DNA test move, from groups that don't like her because they are sexist or because she's a threat to a candidate they want to run/win, but from the Cherokee Nation?
I am missing how the statements in the second one make them seem mutually exclusive. And I went to read more of what Emmy Scott was saying and she quotes this statement that basically paints DNA as some sort of conspiracy by whites to control other people's identities.
This link is a much more down to earth representation of how DNA is not 100% and how biology and culture are complicated, but it also doesn't really back up what you say it does. In that link, they talk about how they do rely in part on DNA testing. You're right, as the link points out, DNA isn't the whole story -- but Warren isn't saying DNA is the whole story either.
Something that seems to get lost is that Warren's not relying on this DNA test alone for her story. In the video she talks about how her mother's family was discriminated against because they were part native american. That takes her family history beyond the typical folklore white families tell themselves. She has DNA evidence and family history behind her claim -- she can't prove her claim, but Cherokee Nation can't disprove her claim either.
But I agree that Warren didn't do a good enough job addressing criticisms from the left -- I already pointed out that she was defending herself from attacks on the right.
Not surprising. JHB is just kind of... second-tier.
I wish Lisa Brown had run against her instead of against CMR. She's a much better opponent, even though I like Long.
Again there's zero indication Warren spoke with the Cherokee Nation before doing this, hey maybe she should have done that eh?
Ok, some of y'all need to rethink some of these posts. It's smelling very right wing in here.
There's a lot of good-faith criticisms being aimed at Warren from the very community she claims affinity for. And so I say an oft-repeated phrase to allies: if you are allies, when minorities are speaking about their cultures and history and perspective, the best thing you can do is shut-all-the-way-the-hell-up and listen. Not sweep it under the rug, or lump it all with obvious bad-faith criticisms because it's being aimed at whoever your darling politician of the moment is.
There's a lot of good-faith criticisms being aimed at Warren from the very community she claims affinity for. And so I say an oft-repeated phrase to allies: if you are allies, when minorities are speaking about their cultures and history and perspective, the best thing you can do is shut-all-the-way-the-hell-up and listen. Not sweep it under the rug, or lump it all with obvious bad-faith criticisms because it's being aimed at whoever your darling politician of the moment is.
How many posts do I need before I meet your quota for not getting called a sexist?
Heh. Tribes are families for the most part, with a bit of corporation thrown in the mix. Genetic testing is gonna monkey-wrench a whole fuckload of shit up.
I realize what she was doing, I just don't think she did a very good job of it.
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