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PantherLotus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
It's weird how Biden hasn't even announced yet and he's already had 2 major gaffes. The first is playing footsie with both side bullshit while the other side are actual nazis, and now he's suggesting that the aftermath of 9/11 was a good thing because it brought us together. DOES NOBODY REMEMBER WHAT GWB DID WITH HIS 80+ APPROVAL RATING?????
 

Daria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,882
The Twilight Zone
It's weird how Biden hasn't even announced yet and he's already had 2 major gaffes. The first is playing footsie with both side bullshit while the other side are actual nazis, and now he's suggesting that the aftermath of 9/11 was a good thing because it brought us together. DOES NOBODY REMEMBER WHAT GWB DID WITH HIS 80+ APPROVAL RATING?????

people love wars, hates aliens, and are submissive to fear. that's why the defense budget gets increased a majority of the time
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Bernie and Biden are both riding name recognition, but Bernie's name recognition comes from 3 years ago in an actual campaign and has been regularly attacked as socialist and too extreme ever since. I'm guessing this primary will bring heavier boxing gloves than the last one, but it was still a contested primary.

Biden's name recognition comes from being doing mostly nonconsequential VP stuff and a general attachment to Obama, which seems much more vulnerable to time in the spotlight of a primary, where he failed pretty hard in 2008. I remember the media wanted to treat him as equal to Edwards, but he never was.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
It's weird how Biden hasn't even announced yet and he's already had 2 major gaffes. The first is playing footsie with both side bullshit while the other side are actual nazis, and now he's suggesting that the aftermath of 9/11 was a good thing because it brought us together. DOES NOBODY REMEMBER WHAT GWB DID WITH HIS 80+ APPROVAL RATING?????
This isn't a gaffe. It's grotesque.

That "unity" is responsible for shaping so many of the problems we continue to struggle with today. So much pain, and so much damage, and *that's* what you think we need to get back to?

I wasn't on the Biden hate train before today, but I'm pretty fucking close to leaving the station with y'all right now.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239

BCBhAJI.jpg
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This isn't a gaffe. It's grotesque.

That "unity" is responsible for shaping so many of the problems we continue to struggle with today. So much pain, and so much damage, and *that's* what you think we need to get back to?

I wasn't on the Biden hate train before today, but I'm pretty fucking close to leaving the station with y'all right now.

And it's wrong, as well. Republicans weren't showing Bill, Hillary or Al Gore any love in the 90's or 2000.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
And it's wrong, as well. Republicans weren't showing Bill, Hillary or Al Gore any love in the 90's or 2000.
Well, of course not. 9/11 is what brought us all together, and gave us the unity we needed to declare war on multiple countries, detain and torture people, spy on American citizens, erode traditions and norms that helped preserve our democracy, destroy the economy and seriously damage the existing world order.

I hope the gloves come off soon. They need to put this cow down hard.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Well, of course not. 9/11 is what brought us all together, and gave us the unity we needed to declare war on multiple countries, detain and torture people, spy on American citizens, erode traditions and norms that helped preserve our democracy, destroy the economy and seriously damage the existing world order.

I hope the gloves come off soon. They need to put this cow down hard.

Being the front runner, when Biden enters, he's going to attacked on all sides. Everyone knows how popular he is right now. What's startling is that he's giving his opponents free ammo to use against him right now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,012
That's a solid platform for now. I just don't see a lot of people getting excited about "shoring up ACA."
Adding Medicare to the marketplace is exciting. Just another way of phrasing, public option
I'm curious how he phrased that in the interview. Fixing the exchange, putting Medicare on it, and then opening up Medicare to all is my preferred way to do Medicare-for-All, but he needs to change the messaging there so Obamacare is not front-and-center and Medicare-for-All sounds more like the masterplan than an afterthought.
It's a stepped path to M4A, hell introducing a Gov option will help a lot of places with a duopoly of coverage choices
To give some ideas about the contours of the debate that will likely play out between (1) Medicare for All advocates (Bernie, hopefully Kamala and Yang and Buttigieg as well, maybe others; Warren is so far adopting an "all of the above"-style neutrality, as opposed to impassioned advocacy for M4A), on the one hand, and (2) "Medicare for More" advocates on the other, this is Adam Gaffney of @PNHP, in conversation with a "Medicare for More" advocate (@amprog's Topher Spiro):

"How so? Reductions in drug prices and administration could cover cost of increased utilization from expanded coverage. Success of national health insurance doesn't hinge on reducing healthcare professional pay, whatever one's feelings on the issue."
"Physician pay accounts for 8% of NHE [National Health Expenditures], so even an overnight 10% pay cut will reduce health spending by less than 1%. Meanwhile, while doctors are well paid, some healthcare workers are very poorly paid, like home health aides."
"And admin costs are indeed a major driver of excessive spending, including on the provider side: Hospital spending accounts for about a third of healthcare spending. Of that, about 25% goes for admin in the US, double that of Canada. That's an enormous amount of money."

Notice how Gaffney is attempting to address the lack of attention to the administrative savings that are unique to Medicare for All proposals: a frequent pattern you'll observe is that "Medicare for More" advocates often (1) ignore/obscure the huge benefits that come from eliminating the private insurance role (profiteering and administrative inefficiency) in basic comprehensive coverage in the U.S., and they often (2) exaggerate the political risks of doing so.

Medicare for All advocates believe that a persuasive and successful political campaign can be pursued, based on (1) the expanded benefits (dental/hearing/vision for everyone and no more cost-sharing at point of service, which alone meets or exceeds even the best employer-sponsored insurance plans, and is music to the ears of seniors experiencing the limitations of current Medicare) and (2) the dramatic premium/spending cuts that are unique to M4A; these are two very appealing attributes that are only made possible by (3) the elimination of private-insurer-induced profiteering and administrative inefficiency (i.e., this is a property that is unique to the M4A proposals).

The political benefits of M4A over competing proposals are described in more detail here in this thread, and also here and here; the exaggeration of political risks of pursing M4A are discussed here and here. The subject of the transition process from our current system to M4A is discussed here. See also:
https://pnhp.org/news/bluecross-blueshield-proposal-to-reduce-premiums-and-expand-access/
Don McCanne, M.D. (Senior Health Policy Fellow, PNHP)
...Now it is widely recognized that not even the Affordable Care Act is meeting the needs. People well informed on health policy understand that the single payer model has become the obvious solution that would ensure affordable health care for all, but some are ideologically opposed, willing to sacrifice the suffering of others in order to reduce the role of government, and others are opposed because of the impact on the vested interests, especially the private insurers and the profiteers such as the pharmaceutical firms...
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/433444-why-medicare-for-some-is-the-wrong-idea
...Let's get real: Commercial insurance is the biggest threat to health care choices and our freedom to receive the health care we need. Employers choose our insurers, and the insurers restrict the providers we can use, the treatments we can receive, and the prescription drugs we can take. Every year, we can be forced to change provider networks, benefits, out-of-pocket costs and, often, insurers. If we change jobs, every aspect of our health insurance changes. And, we are left to fend for ourselves if we leave the job market.

No one loves Aetna, Anthem or any other insurance company. What we love – and what we need – is the freedom to get care from the doctors we want to see at a price we can afford. Medicare for all guarantees all Americans access to health care, with freedom to see the doctors we want, throughout our lives, wherever we live, wherever we work and whenever we are out of work. That's about as pragmatic as it gets.

Maybe the "pragmatists" are concerned that we lack the votes in Congress to pass Medicare for all or that the commercial interests with a stake in maintaining the status quo are too powerful to overcome. That might be right. The health care industry is flush with cash, and insurers use campaign contributions to wield substantial influence in Congress. As we learned in 2009 and 2010, the health insurance industry will fight hard to retain its place in the health care system.

But fixing our broken commercial health insurance system is too important to leave to the politicians or to the insurance industry. The American people deserve a frank conversation about how we can guarantee access to health care as a right in this country. That conversation does not begin with Medicare for some. It begins – and ends – with Medicare for all...
https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1105529272402350081
When I was working for the health insurance industry, we considered these right-wing think tanks our business partners. They got plenty of funding, and we got plenty of research that worked out in our favor. More on that here: Link. The good news is, even making some pretty absurd assumptions about cost, Mercatus still found that #medicareforall would save $2 trillion over 10 years compared to current healthcare spending: Link.


EDIT: For political cover, it looks like Pete is saying we can keep Medicare Advantage. "If the framework we're using is Medicare, a lot of people who have Medicare also have Medicare supplements, Medicare Advantage, something like that..." It's certainly an understandable position for him to take from a political perspective, but it's not clear that it's necessarily the best one (even from a political perspective of selling Medicare for All); and there are obvious problems with the substance of that position, as mentioned here. He's certainly right to emphasize that supplemental policies could exist under M4A, but that would be quite a different role for private insurers from the one they currently have under the current Medicare Advantage program.
 
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shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
So the only proper contender left now is Uncle Diamond Joe Anita Hill Crime Bill Nice Guy Pence Anti-Busing Biden?

Edit: Wait, what's this Biden 9/11 thing?
 
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Plutone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,757
So the only proper contender left now is Uncle Diamond Joe Anita Hill Crime Bill Nice Guy Pence Anti-Busing Biden?

Edit: Wait, what's this Biden 9/11 thing?




"After 9/11, "we were so united. Today we seem to be at each other's throats," Biden says, previewing a key part of his argument if he runs. "You notice I get criticized for saying anything nice about a Republican," he notes"

sry on mobile so couldn't spoiler but yeah fuck biden
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
The funniest thing to me, is despite all the hype for various people entering the race, I think if you ran the upcoming primary in 1,000 different universes, a supermajority of probably 80% of the results are either -

1) Biden wins IA, NH, SC, and basically wraps up the nomination on Super Tuesday
2.) Sanders win IA, NH, come a strong second in SC, and wins enough states on Super Tuesday that he becomes the prohibitive favorite and wins the nomination by the end of April.
 

thefit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,243
Diamond Joe has lost it, even the old fart Republicans he played bridge with that are still there in congress and the senate have sold their souls to Trump covering for him at every chance they get. He's way past his expiration date.
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,492
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
Diamond Joe has lost it, even the old fart Republicans he played bridge with that are still there in congress and the senate have sold their souls to Trump covering for him at every chance they get. He's way past his expiration date.
I don't know if "lost it" feel quite right. It's more... he's been outdated, maybe? A lot of what he's been saying might have gone over fine 8-12 years ago. He witnessed partisan fuckery take off while he was VP, though, so he has no excuse on not understanding it.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,848
And Hillary pretending Wisconsin didn't exist.
I mean I know people say this a lot and it's not untrue, but Hillary going to Wisconsin like 3-4 times wouldn't have won her the state. 10,000 more volunteers and millions more in ad spending, maybe (and yes, campaigning there), but the trends that killed her were nationwide and weren't isolated to just PA/MI/WI.

And a lot of the polls that had her up by 10 post Comey didn't weigh by education. Something to remember going into 2020.
 
Dec 14, 2017
1,314
I mean I know people say this a lot and it's not untrue, but Hillary going to Wisconsin like 3-4 times wouldn't have won her the state. 10,000 more volunteers and millions more in ad spending, maybe (and yes, campaigning there), but the trends that killed her were nationwide and weren't isolated to just PA/MI/WI.

And a lot of the polls that had her up by 10 post Comey didn't weigh by education. Something to remember going into 2020.
The emails worked because people wanted to believe she was bent.

The rest thought she was so out of touch she didn't realize a private email server for official business screamed "8 more years of boring scandals."
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,176
Yeah, the fact that people keep peddling that just showing up for campaign stops helps you win states makes no sense. The entire operation needed to be amped up.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,740
I mean I know people say this a lot and it's not untrue, but Hillary going to Wisconsin like 3-4 times wouldn't have won her the state. 10,000 more volunteers and millions more in ad spending, maybe (and yes, campaigning there), but the trends that killed her were nationwide and weren't isolated to just PA/MI/WI.

And a lot of the polls that had her up by 10 post Comey didn't weigh by education. Something to remember going into 2020.
but didn't she have better ground game and more money for TV ads? feels like the national sentiment at that time sunk her, not necessarily her campaign's ground operations and her campaign stops (though perhaps more stops would have helped her somewhat)
 
Dec 14, 2017
1,314
Yeah, the fact that people keep peddling that just showing up for campaign stops helps you win states makes no sense. The entire operation needed to be amped up.
Okay. But isn't showing up literally required for all that other stuff?

People are saying it's necessary to do campaign stops. Only apologists are saying that by saying it's necessary, we are also saying it's sufficient.

Almost no one who says, "She didn't go to Wisconsin" thinks a couple campaign stops would have done it. It's a weird distortion to imply that masses of people are insisting on this.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,065
It turns out her ground game was a wet fart and it's more effective to just be a good retail politician and racist.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288

It's weird how Biden hasn't even announced yet and he's already had 2 major gaffes. The first is playing footsie with both side bullshit while the other side are actual nazis, and now he's suggesting that the aftermath of 9/11 was a good thing because it brought us together. DOES NOBODY REMEMBER WHAT GWB DID WITH HIS 80+ APPROVAL RATING?????
This isn't a gaffe. It's grotesque.

That "unity" is responsible for shaping so many of the problems we continue to struggle with today. So much pain, and so much damage, and *that's* what you think we need to get back to?

I wasn't on the Biden hate train before today, but I'm pretty fucking close to leaving the station with y'all right now.
Yeah, indeed. I definitely remember. The time of "unity" that Biden is apparently pining for is when both Democrats and Republicans alike voted to authorize an illegal war in Iraq based on deliberate misinformation from the W administration. And not only that, but said illegal war was absolutely terrible and lead to atrocities being committed such as the torture at Abu Ghraib and many of those ultimately responsible for allowing those atrocities to happen in the first place, those at the top of the food chain, were instead protected because of the same "unity" that Biden speaks of here (warning for people who haven't seen it before: there's some extremely messed up photos of the torture in this link, so if you have any sensitives to sexual abuse of any sort or abuse in general or are at work or anything of the sort, I would not advise clicking. Just a head's up that this stuff is definitely sickening):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

Why would anyone pine for those days to be back? What was great about that exactly? Especially when even back then there was no unity, not truly, as just a few years prior the GOP had tried to impeach Bill Clinton and just a few years later they were desperately trying to privatize Social Security of all things.

Fuck Biden. He's completely out of touch and belongs nowhere near the White House
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Keep on gaffing, Biden. Show everyone you're a piece of shit.

I was worried when I saw Cy Vance was the one who brought charges up against Manafort, but didn't post about my worries. Looks like I had good reason to be worried.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
The emails worked because people wanted to believe she was bent.

The rest thought she was so out of touch she didn't realize a private email server for official business screamed "8 more years of boring scandals."
Yeah people were scrambling for excuses not to vote for her.

She got pneumonia and it sunk her poll numbers for a few days. Like, what the hell?
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,721
Beto sure is an early bird.

Biden can say whatever he wants because he has a habit of making a fool out of himself anyway. But I read all this crap and just wish he would have rode Obama's coattails in 2016. His new strategy is fairly shitty.

I wonder if he and Obama talk as much as they used to?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,786
It turns out her ground game was a wet fart and it's more effective to just be a good retail politician and racist.

It's also more effective to have a foreign nation perform cyber war fare on your opponent and to have significant voter suppression tactics in key states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

There were lots of reason for her to lose the election beyond just campaign stops.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
I hope this doesn't mean Don Jr and Jared are safe :/

They probably are, report is looking like a bust on the collusion front.

Republican strategy of making it Collusion or Nothing was pretty great actually, looking back. Even if the President obstructed justice it won't "count" because "there was no collusion!" or whatever and media talking heads will nod along.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,721
Is it me or does William Barr need bigger glasses? They look like they're gonna snap!
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,427
USA
Many criticize Biden's conciliatory attitude toward republicans as not appealing to the Dem base, but the fact is that if he wins the nomination despite that, that same attitude is what will enable him to wipe the floor with Trump in the general. You'd see the Midwest snap back hard.

I think he knows he's the favorite and is playing the long game.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,969
So Beto's officially in.

It was absurd to think Beto had "missed the boat". Ultimately he announced in mid-March, which is standard for most presidential campaigns and he's polling in 3rd in most polls already. Now we'll see what Beto is really made of.

Originally my dream ticket was Harris / Beto but after the last couple of months now Harris / Butt is the new hotness for me. Still, I'm interested to see how Beto handles the magnifying glass of a presidential campaign. I do think Trump fears him because of his youthfulness, whiteness, and social media savviness. I'll take Beto over Biden and Bernie at this point, but I would prefer Harris or Warren, notwithstanding my undying love for Mayor Booty. If Booty can get some traction in the polls, then I'll be all in for him.
 
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