Honestly, the mods cut off communication with a lot of the people they claim to value, so, it sucks, but that happens when you turn a blind eye to problems.
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US PoliEra 2020 |OT5| Guidance recommends quarantining PoliERA
- Thread starter Brian McDoogle
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I think JABEE has a point, a lot of these issues stem from this being the general politics OT. Maybe some of these problems would be resolved if there was a neoliberal/centrist/whatevs OT where brigading was ban-worthy, like Y2Kev suggested.
Like as an example, I used to browse /r/politics a lot, but then it became a bit too Bernie-focused for my taste, so I switched over to /r/neoliberal where conversations have a bit more nuance.
Just a suggestion
Like as an example, I used to browse /r/politics a lot, but then it became a bit too Bernie-focused for my taste, so I switched over to /r/neoliberal where conversations have a bit more nuance.
Just a suggestion
It's been a while since I've posted, but I'd like an invite if possible.
I've been lurking and occasionally posting in this OT for the past few years and really enjoy the discussion and insight here, I'd like to keep following it.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd appreciate an invite, Midnight Jon . Hopefully there are people already over there who can vouch for me.
This has been a long time coming (in fact, most of the community here is already gone; it's only the most stubborn who are left). The mods have had opportunity to correct issues, and they have done nothing but allow the situation to continue and deteriorate.
You think this hasn't been done?
This has been a long time coming (in fact, most of the community here is already gone; it's only the most stubborn who are left). The mods have had opportunity to correct issues, and they have done nothing but allow the situation to continue and deteriorate.
I mean, one way for this to not become a lunatic subreddit is to...........get rid of the lunatics.
I do not find Discord to be a good replacement for forum discussion, especially when things get big enough. Too hard to archive material and much harder/impossible to follow conversations after the fact (or even in the midst if things are fast enough). If people need a bit of time to chill/breathe that'a always understandable but I'd rather this community not falter, wilt or die.
Just to piggyback off this, I thought the recent Ezra Klen interview with Sean McElwee and also "The Weeds" Podcast episode about the end of the primary "How does this end?" (see the second half of the episode) were excellent discussions about what Progressives can do moving forward to find greater success and I think others should give them a listen. I also liked that recent Washington Monthly article about "Marxist Electoral Political Theory" but when a thread was made in OT way too much of the conversation was about "did they use the word Marxist correctly" and not enough about the content of the article :(
Just to piggyback off this, I thought the recent Ezra Klen interview with Sean McElwee and also "The Weeds" Podcast episode about the end of the primary "How does this end?" (see the second half of the episode) were excellent discussions about what Progressives can do moving forward to find greater success and I think others should give them a listen. I also liked that recent Washington Monthly article about "Marxist Electoral Political Theory" but when a thread was made in OT way too much of the conversation was about "did they use the word Marxist correctly" and not enough about the content of the article :(
I'll take an invite.
I think it's going to be better once the GE actually comes around. It feels like a weird no-man's land between a primary that ended in such a awkward way with people stewing in their emotions and a GE that hasn't really started yet and might start a later date with less of a bang with everything going on.
I think it's going to be better once the GE actually comes around. It feels like a weird no-man's land between a primary that ended in such a awkward way with people stewing in their emotions and a GE that hasn't really started yet and might start a later date with less of a bang with everything going on.
I read far more than I post, but throwing my name in as appreciating an invite if I could get one.
This is generally the only politics-centric thread that plays at any level of involving varying viewpoints without forcing one 'right' viewpoint; I've found myself avoiding more and more threads I'd generally be interested in because they're exercises in frustration. Things got a lot more polarized after the clown car primary collapsed to two options and then finished, and the timing of the Reade allegation exacerbated everything (This is not me blaming Reade for her timing, saying she shouldn't have come forward when she did, or saying that the timing is suspicious. This is me saying that as the primary was looking firmly decided and too late to shift without disenfranchising a ton of votes, and it looked like we might get five seconds to breathe after a divisive period, something immediately occurred that made things very polarized and tense again. Not blaming Reade, not saying she shouldn't have come forward, just that the way the chips fell made everyone considerably more on-edge about it.)
Let me be exacting in my response here.
For a long while now there has been derisiveness towards PoliEra. Our members typically talked less and less on the forum itself, and especially in Etcetera, outside of this thread and now, off-site. The reason for this is simple. If you post a moderate opinion, you get derided. If you post a liberal opinion, you get derided. If you aren't exactly how the wave of posters in Etcetera are, you are labeled awful things. Want Biden to win over Trump when it's clear he's the nominee? You're a rape apologist and you hate victims. Want to ensure that the system doesn't collapse while we try to switch over to a frankly, superior healthcare system? You support the deaths of millions of people a year who could not pay a for-profit healthcare system. Want investigations rather than jumping to conclusions? You're downplaying sexual assault.
And because moderate takes that do not necessarily meet the expectations other posters might have of their peers are in opposition to claiming a presidential candidate has dementia or, despite an absence of evidence (which does NOT imply evidence of absence), calling him a rapist, with moderation seeming light touch if not absent, it's made it extremely difficult to talk about politics anywhere but here or off-site. Literally nobody is downplaying sexual assault when they claim they don't want it to be true, hope it's not, but give enough respect to the victim that they call for an investigation. But in Etcetera, that has happened.
It isn't just overtly negative responses. It also goes into harassment. Harassment of mods, harassment and brigading of posts, snipes instead of discussion, belief over policy wherein discussion is branded as an attack, and so on.
And then, once the discussion stops, because surprise, there's nothing to discuss when the only ones that are left believe, post, and act in the same way with no room for moderation or opposition to those beliefs, the self-same people who claimed dementia and rape-enabling and victim-blaming and downplaying of sexual assault started coming here.
To snipe. To brigade.
And all the while, the line was that there are minorities, they're angry, they're panicking, and it's best to give them space. As if there were no minority voices here (myself, for instance) panicking, angry, terrified, and resolved to do what can be done, and this is the general politics thread, no it's the community thread, no it's the general politics thread!
So when people tried to push back after being baited in bad faith, they were banned. But the ones who argued in bad faith to pull people in? They were still out there, posting.
I am sympathetic to people who are angry, panicked, dejected. Their candidate appears to have lost, they fear a repeat of 2016. I am in the same place. I didn't want Biden, for instance, any more than they do.
But what is not sympathetic is the frankly terrifying response with that anger, dejection, and panic, wherein a closing of ranks let to them forcefully push anything opposing to their views out and then, when it was clear they had won, decide to dash the 'enemy' on the rocks.
So now, feeling bereft of moderation in Etcetera and in our own community, feeling attacked, unwanted, derided, hated, and for some of us -- like myself -- terrified that people for whom we share 99% of beliefs would rather stab us in the back out of some kneejerk response, than swallow their pride to cause the least harm, posters who have been here since before Resetera, who helped build the site as the rest of us fled from the other, are deciding it is no longer worth it to stick around.
Now it feels as if the site has been lost.
It is regrettable, because just like we saw in Etcetera, once the discussion dries up, they force it elsewhere. Now that Etcetera looks like Lord of the Flies, this place, too, shall resemble the same.
For a long while now there has been derisiveness towards PoliEra. Our members typically talked less and less on the forum itself, and especially in Etcetera, outside of this thread and now, off-site. The reason for this is simple. If you post a moderate opinion, you get derided. If you post a liberal opinion, you get derided. If you aren't exactly how the wave of posters in Etcetera are, you are labeled awful things. Want Biden to win over Trump when it's clear he's the nominee? You're a rape apologist and you hate victims. Want to ensure that the system doesn't collapse while we try to switch over to a frankly, superior healthcare system? You support the deaths of millions of people a year who could not pay a for-profit healthcare system. Want investigations rather than jumping to conclusions? You're downplaying sexual assault.
And because moderate takes that do not necessarily meet the expectations other posters might have of their peers are in opposition to claiming a presidential candidate has dementia or, despite an absence of evidence (which does NOT imply evidence of absence), calling him a rapist, with moderation seeming light touch if not absent, it's made it extremely difficult to talk about politics anywhere but here or off-site. Literally nobody is downplaying sexual assault when they claim they don't want it to be true, hope it's not, but give enough respect to the victim that they call for an investigation. But in Etcetera, that has happened.
It isn't just overtly negative responses. It also goes into harassment. Harassment of mods, harassment and brigading of posts, snipes instead of discussion, belief over policy wherein discussion is branded as an attack, and so on.
And then, once the discussion stops, because surprise, there's nothing to discuss when the only ones that are left believe, post, and act in the same way with no room for moderation or opposition to those beliefs, the self-same people who claimed dementia and rape-enabling and victim-blaming and downplaying of sexual assault started coming here.
To snipe. To brigade.
And all the while, the line was that there are minorities, they're angry, they're panicking, and it's best to give them space. As if there were no minority voices here (myself, for instance) panicking, angry, terrified, and resolved to do what can be done, and this is the general politics thread, no it's the community thread, no it's the general politics thread!
So when people tried to push back after being baited in bad faith, they were banned. But the ones who argued in bad faith to pull people in? They were still out there, posting.
I am sympathetic to people who are angry, panicked, dejected. Their candidate appears to have lost, they fear a repeat of 2016. I am in the same place. I didn't want Biden, for instance, any more than they do.
But what is not sympathetic is the frankly terrifying response with that anger, dejection, and panic, wherein a closing of ranks let to them forcefully push anything opposing to their views out and then, when it was clear they had won, decide to dash the 'enemy' on the rocks.
So now, feeling bereft of moderation in Etcetera and in our own community, feeling attacked, unwanted, derided, hated, and for some of us -- like myself -- terrified that people for whom we share 99% of beliefs would rather stab us in the back out of some kneejerk response, than swallow their pride to cause the least harm, posters who have been here since before Resetera, who helped build the site as the rest of us fled from the other, are deciding it is no longer worth it to stick around.
Now it feels as if the site has been lost.
It is regrettable, because just like we saw in Etcetera, once the discussion dries up, they force it elsewhere. Now that Etcetera looks like Lord of the Flies, this place, too, shall resemble the same.
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I don't love Discord as a platform either, especially compared to how forums are laid out, but I don't see why you couldn't have a similar relationship to the Discord group that you do to this thread-- a source of political information and a place to weigh in.
This is how I use the thread as well, but it's been mostly derailed by non regulars since the primary heated up. We went from somewhat objective discussion to full on hyperbole most of the time.
I don't feel I can post a lot of points of view without having my words twisted to the most extreme version of what they could imply.
There actually are ConservativeERA and LiberalERA threads that went defunct quickly because a.) conservatives all get banned lol and b.) liberals all stuck to PoliEra.
I'm not a big poster in here but like you this is the one spot on this forum to try to get away from the insaneness that comes from any OT politics thread (I started ignoring all other political threads on site because I don't want to get sucked in). It's sad that some of the more regular users keep leaving and makes me wondering if this will keep being the one political oasis here (most of the time anyways).
Yeah, it didn't have to go this way, either. Choices were made and it often involved only listening to the loudest, angriest voices.
My postings haven't been perfect, that's for sure. And I do apologize to anyone I have upset by my past posts. I don't post often, because I keep to myself a lot, and I only do it when absolutely necessary. And even then it's usually because I'm pissed off at the GOP and Trump's fascism. But when I'm not posting, I lurk. This thread has been a great way for me to keep informed about what has been going on in the US, and it stinks to see so many people leaving and feeling unwelcome. =(
It's well on its way to being allowed to become a lunatic subreddit
I agree with Kev, this thread should be a proper community thread to discuss current and past US politics.
Stop banning people for ridiculous long times. Does anyone think it actually does any good? Give individuals warnings instead of a ban and let arguments cool down. Ban lengths are arbitrary and just lead to further arguments about why so-and-so was banned for such-and-such but other-person who I agree with was banned for longer. There are clearly favored posters who have some measure of immunity, as well as moderators with bad takes. I've seen people with banned status yet can't find any reason given in their post history. Stop banning people for having alt accounts without revealing their main ones. Ortix and The_Hunter were banned for older replies they pasted from here into another thread, so I--and I'm sure I'm not alone--don't even bother going into other threads to make the same points that pass muster here.
For what its worth, ive never seen a post from you thats made me feel unwelcome 🎇
mainly been a lurker in politics threads. but quality of discussion have certainly gone down a few notches since the primaries began. hard to miss
The point is that it is already past the tipping point. It's pretty easy to contrast 2020 with 2019.
This summarizes my frustrations. I want political discussion to continue in this thread and across the OT, but this needs to be addressed.
TY for so eloquently putting into words why I hit the back button instead of the post reply button after writing a post most of the time.
Midnight Jon I'd like a discord invite as well longtime lurker from back in the old place. Finally got membership here and y'all have kept me sane during this hellscape. But by all means do so at your earliest convenience. ^^b
The ConservativeERA thread was wild stuff.
Anyway, I do feel slightly isolated from this stuff because I never go in general threads or even really any community threads sans Wrestling, this one and the gaming forum. Also, again, I have a heavy finger with the ignore function -- these are not cure-alls just mean to say I don't have oodles of insight here into stuff beyond the obvious stuff like late-night socialism in here, which I'm still not sure why it happens at very clear hours but is mostly harmless since it's mostly just glazed over, and the standard self-important voting stuff which is not new to this primary or era.
We've been doing that for over a year, both on and off Era. I'm sorry, I don't know what more we can do.
I am not really a regular but I don't think abandoning will do anything but let people have a false sense that they have accomplished changiign the views of people to closely match their own, when in fact they have just been torn further apart. Everyone is so afraid of being hurt or being challeneged and i think its a bit pathetic to want to close up and only have allies that reinforce what you already think near.
Thanks for posting this here. The staff have chosen what sort of site they want this to be, and it's not one where a thread like this can exist. It's a shame, but they make the rules.
Hopefully most people get their invites eventually. You definitely should be on that list.
For anyone that is a mod/admin in the discord, instead of individually inviting everyone it might be easier to post an invite link (the kind where you have to post in this thread before you can view it), that's what the FilmEra OT discord does and it works fairly well. You could also limit who is allowed to post until roles are assigned, that way you can ban people that don't post here in good faith before they have a chance to troll in the server.
It's also a little frustrating to see certain users literally advocate for making anything more enthusiastic than reluctant support for Biden a bannable offense.
I'm going to feel excited and enthusiastic when I see Obama up on stage with Biden in the campaign trail, and I'm going to want to share in that enthusiasm with like-minded people on here and Etcetera without being accused of being an awful person or without people calling for my ban.
I'm going to feel excited and enthusiastic when I see Obama up on stage with Biden in the campaign trail, and I'm going to want to share in that enthusiasm with like-minded people on here and Etcetera without being accused of being an awful person or without people calling for my ban.
Sorry, that's because it's morning in Russia when I start my shift at the Internet Research Agency.
Thanks for writing this. If I could put what I feel into words, it is this.
You know what, you're right. It's cowardice making everyone consider moving to Discord, not personal attacks or bad faith arguments.
There is no need for personal attacks. Make your argument and stand fiirm with it. The need for extra sauce i think is what Trips people up. The snark and the need to be flamboyantly correct.
I was working today. What in the holy fuck happened? Like, can I get a two-sentence update as to why there's a concerted effort to abandon ship (although Abstrusity had a fantastic post that seemingly touched on some underlying elements, but not the specific match that lit this powder keg)?
Also, Discord invite would be fab.
It's also quite a thing where literally everyone is unhappy, both PoliEra and sets of marginalized groups. Seems the only happy folks left here just self-quarantined to the Animal Crossing thread.
Also, Discord invite would be fab.
It's also quite a thing where literally everyone is unhappy, both PoliEra and sets of marginalized groups. Seems the only happy folks left here just self-quarantined to the Animal Crossing thread.
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