That is before that pervert trainer. This is what happens after
notice how the uploader found this the "funniest Roshi scene".
but wait, there's more
"SAY WHA??? I WAS NUDE IN THE COLD THIS WHOLE TIME"
*face palm*
*fist palm*
That is before that pervert trainer. This is what happens after
notice how the uploader found this the "funniest Roshi scene".
That is before that pervert trainer. This is what happens after
notice how the uploader found this the "funniest Roshi scene".
You are right but I don't think japanese creators give a shit about just ~1000 people who complain about sexism and sexual harassment,Or, you know, maybe Japanese creators can understand that this is a global market and if they are going to release shit globally, they need to to think globally when creating media. It's 2018, not 1918.
Really wish I had known this was in there before I bought the game digitally on my Xbox
People enjoying this fuckery, get some sense and grow up. Or get even help, you are disturbed.
I don't remember the first game being like this, I could be wrong. But holy shit, it's juvenile, stupid and it's harmful.
Calling it "sex-related things" isn't really what it's about. But you are right that the thread is about VC and there's plenty of material there already.Can we maybe not turn this thread into the "lookee here at all the sex-related things in Japanese media" art gallery?
Haven't seen the review, but I'm glad to hear they mentioned it. I would assume it was Damiani, but I'll check the review.The Easy Allies review of VC4 mentioned that scene, and after I saw it, I decided to the delete the demo version of it I had not completed. As a long-time fan of anime and Japanese games, I'm disappointed that developers still think intentional sexual harassment as a joke is funny enough to put in some of their games. I wonder if older otaku still like that sort of thing after the hundredth time they've seen these gags. I wonder if the opinions of the older otaku audience do not even matter as younger otaku (who would enjoy these tropes more) enter the fray.
To be fair, not everyone looks at every thread about a game before buying. If this thread had been made before release, though, yeah. :/This game being a cesspool of sexism has been know since before release. Indeed, the reason I've never considered getting it.
Calling it "sex-related things" isn't really what it's about. But you are right that the thread is about VC and there's plenty of material there already.
I can at least commend someone actually doing the logical thing of not buying a game because something that they don't like. I see a lot of people say that something is wrong, despite buying said product anyways, and it's always off-puttingMr-Joker said:
Well, considering that Sega has gotten a lot of flack in the past for editing or removing content from their games (Especially with Yakuza 3), I wouldn't doubt that they would have a large sum of backlash, just because they edited something out. I personally think that the best in-between would be to offer a free restoration patch of sorts for those who are absolute purists, while offering an option for those who could be offended by such things. Granted, that takes more effort and time, but do keep in mind that they would be making the edits in the first place.Mr-Joker said:Sega you localized this game and not once did you think...."Yeah we can't localize the game in this state and will require mayor rewrites."
Mr-Joker said:Don't forget the ever popular lame ass excuse;
"I don't care, I play video game to escape the real world." ¬_¬;
Thank goodness that I quickly grew out of that mindset and started engaging my brain rather than sticking my head in the sand.
I'm aware the Japanese use of the term otaku is not exclusive to anime fandom. But nonetheless, no one uses anime to mean animation in general outside of Japan. Same concept.
I'm not talking about your average anime otaku who goes to cons and buys some merch, I'm talking the enthusiasts who get deep into it and need this sort of stuff to be amused. I apologise if it seemed like I was generalizing. It's something that's been talked about by those in the anime industry itself- men who know nothing about interacting with real women are making anime with women based upon the fictional women they do know. I assume the same thing applies to games with what seems, to me, to be a sudden recent explosion in this creepy shit. After all, a number of Japanese games do treat their women protagonists with respect- and it seems said games are coming from companies who don't hire otaku who bury themselves in anime and no reality to major creative roles.
However, perhaps you are correct that it (that such a game exists) runs deeper than mere otaku in the workspace, given the example that some J-dramas are even worse. After all, the country as a whole has a problem with many men who just don't see the point in interacting with women. It could be a result of those men as well.
I'm just tired of dismissive comments that treat Japanese culture as this horrible thing with no positives. It's a beautiful culture that needs to have problematic aspects excised, not wholesale dismissed as bad and evil compared to Western culture.
Edit: To be clear, yes, sexism is a serious problem in Japanese culture. It's just, like, even more excessive in games like this, or so I thought.
What the fuck? Have you been living under a rock or are you being purposefully disingenuous?That aside, I'm pretty sure GamerGate died years ago, so I really gotta laugh at anyone who tries to bring it back from the dead.
And I agree with your overall point. I also think that many aspects of japanese culture are beautiful and great but those are the positive ones, while I also think that seeing the entire japan as one of the worst things when Asia have the same problem and our society on the west also have many of those problems is quite idiotic (hell, my country which is Brazil is almost putting a worse trump on power). In the end I understand that Japan is focused because it's a large producer of entertainment, even more in games but at the same time we can't act like many of those things are unique. Anyway, I hope that I was able to say my point.
There is no excuse, this is shitty.
And I'm sorry, he "gets a redemption arc"?
How about I as the player kick him out of my unit and never show his fucking face again.
If this is a way to show "powerful women", then it's frankly pathetic.
"Oh but he gets slapped". He gropes a woman's ass and he gets slapped? And that's all you need to make it right?
Having depictions like this in Japanese media especially is really harmful, as indeed puplic groping is a huge issue in real life too. To the extent of having women-only passanger cars to keep them safe from it. So this really needs to be called out and I really dont' care about "cultural differences" or whatever bullshit people sometimes try to peddle. Sexual harassment and assault isn't a "culture" worth respecting. Not to say it wouldn't be a problem everywhere, it is. And not having this in games would be beneficial to everyone.I see a lot of people defining that scene as "sexual harassment", which makes it sound a bit lightweight. Groping is sexual assault and it's better to use that term for what it is. This game is making light of sexual assault.
BTW I looked up "groping" on Wikipedia and the first image in the article is a Japanese sign in a bicycle parking area that translates as, "Beware of groping".
Oh yeah, I'm real glad we're passed women being aggressively harassed on the internet. We can put that grave right next to 'racism' in things that are totally over and in no way are real problems anymore. Inclusive efforts are now met with open arms now that those things are out of the way.I mean, I can understand why some people don't like hackjob writing (like Detroit Become Human), and already deal with enough shitflinging shitshows regarding politics in media and online, but there's a good difference between something that is rather subtle with it's political undertones (like The Division or Metal Gear Solid, although MGS is a bit more apparent), and something that is preachy (like the game equivalents of movies like Birdemic, such as Detroit Become Human). Not a lot of people like to be nagged at. I do however think that a lot of people who say "GET POLITICS OUT OF MEDIA EXCEPT MY OWN WWRRRYYYY" can become rather apparent on both sides of the argument. That aside, I'm pretty sure GamerGate died years ago, so I really gotta laugh at anyone who tries to bring it back from the dead.
To be fair, not everyone looks at every thread about a game before buying. If this thread had been made before release, though, yeah. :/
Just realized.Oh yeah, I'm real glad we're passed women being aggressively harassed on the internet. We can put that grave right next to 'racism' in things that are totally over and in no way are real problems anymore. Inclusive efforts are now met with open arms now that those things are out of the way.
...Oh, wait, shit. Nevermind.
Also lol at the Division being subtle.
No it's not. None of the men soldiers are concerned for her, they just want to see a fight and think it's funny that a women punched a guy. It's a toxic depiction of sexual harassment that only serves to sexualize the victim rather than making any actual worthwhile statements.
Just realized.
Only 5 posts after registering over 6 months ago.
We have a burner, folks.
You are free to make your own decisions. But do you think this game and its creators are actively promoting sexual assault against women or they trotted out a tired anime gag that landed with a thud? Can you play a video game and separate that its not actually real and that sexual assault as well as the blowing up and headshots against humans is not permitted in real life?I just finished the demo and thought it was good but things like this...I wanted this game goddammit!
By trotting out a scene like this and the way they are deliberately exploiting their female characters, at best, they're saying "Yeaahhhh, it's wrong... but it sure is fun!"You are free to make your own decisions. But do you think this game and its creators are actively promoting sexual assault against women or they trotted out a tired anime gag that landed with a thud? Can you play a video game and separate that its not actually real and that sexual assault as well as the blowing up and headshots against humans is not permitted in real life?
Because trolls are getting better at concern trolling (natural selection at work) and we don't always check everyone's post count before replying.
It is my understanding that this is not pervasive throughout the whole game. This would be a very different discussion if it were (and maybe it is). This would be a very different piece of entertainment if it were.By trotting out a scene like this and the way they are deliberately exploiting their female characters like this, at best, they're saying "Yeaahhhh, it's wrong... but it sure is fun!"
I feel like this thread is more of a condemnation of all Japanese tropes, fan service, and the countries views on women than the scene itself.
About the character?
You're right. I just got into the habit of checking it when certain rhetoric shows up.
This game being a cesspool of sexism has been know since before release. Indeed, the reason I've never considered getting it.
There's still absolutely no reason to defend the addition of needless, overused tropes of women being sexually assaulted/harassed (for laughs or not), especially when handled so poorly and with little actual meaningful consequence and poor context.The behavior was treated with negative consequences and clearly established as a bad thing. That's the only take away from the blatant sexual assault.
That is before that pervert trainer. This is what happens after
notice how the uploader found this the "funniest Roshi scene".
That is before that pervert trainer. This is what happens after
notice how the uploader found this the "funniest Roshi scene".
Games don't just pop out of the ether. They chose to create this scene, they thought it was worth putting in there.It is my understanding that this is not pervasive throughout the whole game. This would be a very different discussion if it were (and maybe it is). This would be a very different piece of entertainment if it were.
To me, its an individual choice. I think all this is cringey as fuck and have NEVER liked the anime tropes like this. However, I can also separate fiction from reality and can look at the whole game and decide as a whole of whether its worthy of time and money.
As has been said, this is a strong incident in this game (and a lowlight,) but it's not an isolated incident in the game. It's a recurring theme and issue. With a lot of things, for example the trans character in the game, the localization team did a pretty good job massaging the text - but they didn't remove anything, for better and in this case worse.
Another japanese game I wont buy because it treats women like objects.