Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
18,554
I respect the work that went into the numbers. However, I reject the use of the phrase "will essentially become Xbox console exclusives." In some contexts, sure. But in others, no. The vast majority of people that will ever play a game that falls into this category have already played it and will still be able to play on either PS3 or Xbox 360 console after this store switches off. Hardly what I'd call a defacto exclusive.

Imagine someone who is just getting into console gaming.

One user base will be able to purchase a title from 2 generations back (like Arkham Origins) on a current-generation console.

The other would need to buy a separate piece of hardware and a used disk copy for it.

Which one would be more likely to be described as "not readily available" in this situation?
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,441
Seattle
You're not really interpreting my comment correctly.

My post was in response to the claim that MS currently has "4 generations of content available" on their current console. They don't. 95% of the original Xbox library is unavailable and cannot be played on the series X. 50% of the 360 Library is unavailable and cannot be played on the series X. This is unlikely to change, it's been years since an OG Xbox title was added and demand for that is very low.

This isn't materially different than the BC situation on the PS5 right now. Sony has about the same amount of content for PS2 and PS3 available, though the PS3 stuff requires PSNow. And as I specifically said- "this does not excuse sony shutting down the PS3/PSP/Vita store as that is a separate issue." We should be accurate in how we describe the state of BC on the system. 4 generations of content is absolutely not present on the Series X right now but that talking point pops up consistently.

Ah gotcha; yeah that makes sense.
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
Being able to play those older games on modern system increases those games' value compared to games only available on legacy systems. If there was a BC program there, lots of games could continue to live on. Just have to look at GOG and PC in general to see that there's a market for it.
I totally agree with you. Hopefully, you didn't read my post as disagreeing with your point, though I do realize I worded my reply somewhat oddly.

But yes, there is definitely a market for it, as Microsoft has shown, and the same way there is a market for older games being re-released/remastered for current systems. I mean, I just bought Grim Fandango a few weeks ago based on all the positive word of mouth I've heard over the past couple decades. I'm sure some people would argue there isn't a market for people that want to buy a 20+ year old point-and-click game, but it got re-released and people are apparently buying it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,143
Imagine someone who is just getting into console gaming.

One user base will be able to purchase a title from 2 generations back (like Arkham Origins) on a current-generation console.

The other would need to buy a separate piece of hardware and a used disk copy for it.

Which one would be more likely to be described as "not readily available" in this situation?
Yes, when you imagine a specific context that supports the definition, of course I'm compelled to agree. But the whole point was this person buying two-generation-old digital only games does not define most or even a large part of these digital products are categorized as exclusive or not.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I'm sad to see so many people go "So the average gamer doesn't care" as if only Fortnite and COD matter in gaming.
 

dd492941

Member
Oct 28, 2017
394
MS made a selection of BC Xbox games downloadable on 360 in 2008, called Xbox Originals. These can still be purchased on modern Xbox hardware (Splinter Cell games, Ninja Gaiden, etc). Any 360 game that wasn't delisted by the publisher can be downloaded for Xbox One or Series X, and if you don't want to buy it through the store a used physical disc copy of any 360 game (minus Kinect) from Gamestop works on One/SX as well.
Well that is convenient for bc purposes, but
The Xbox Live of the original Xbox was shut down in mid 2010 if I remember correctly, but that didn't have any sort of online market place outside of maybe some DLC (not sure though). The 360 store and 360 online services however are still very much still up and running and that includes the ability to buy and play digital copies of OG Xbox games.

For original Xbox games with DLC content (not sure how it was delivered, if online purchase or just GOTY editions), several of the games available on Xbox One come with all of that DLC for free, which is great for games like Battlefront 2 or KOTOR
Gotcha. I wasn't aware of the timeline. That is good to know and makes the 360 a worthy purchase then. Obviously still a very specific use case but nice to gear regardless.
 

Shizuka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,323
tenor.gif


It's very convenient he's stayed away from any interviews

He should step down.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,348
FL, United States
an amusing thought-

The manufacturer spec for blu ray discs is a lifespan of 100-200 years, assuming its mechanically pressed out of the factory. Given the realities of climate change and sea level rise, it's highly likely that a PS5 game I buy tomorrow will be around longer than the state of Florida will be.

Blu rays are another story. Those I hoard with reckless abandon. But most of my retro collecting was done between '01-2016 before the market got really inflated. But modern stuff I don't really worry about as much.

The way our state governs itself, there's a lot that will last longer than the state of Florida.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,543
I hope this will drive investment into Vita emulation. PS3 is coming along at a steady pace and PSP is damn near perfect, but the Vita front is mostly silent.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,457
I totally agree with you. Hopefully, you didn't read my post as disagreeing with your point, though I do realize I worded my reply somewhat oddly.

But yes, there is definitely a market for it, as Microsoft has shown, and the same way there is a market for older games being re-released/remastered for current systems. I mean, I just bought Grim Fandango a few weeks ago based on all the positive word of mouth I've heard over the past couple decades. I'm sure some people would argue there isn't a market for people that want to buy a 20+ year old point-and-click game, but it got re-released and people are apparently buying it.

I did think that at first and then had to quickly adjust my reply, but that was me reading too quickly 😛
 

Jumpman23

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,008
I'm honestly dumbfounded by the number of people in this thread defending this practice. It was shitty for Nintendo to do it with the lack of VC support on Switch and its shitty for Sony to do this as well.

There are many reasons people love PC gaming but one of them (at least for me) is your library is yours and comes along with you from hardware upgrade to hardware upgrade. My fear is that Sony will continue this practice into future gens and for me that is not a welcome practice. I am happy with how MS is handling this so far with their current offerings and it gives me hope that the competition will steer Sony back into the right track.
 

TCG276

Member
Dec 17, 2017
520
I don't think there will be any major blowback because of this outside of the enthusiast community. The overwhelming majority of gamers don't play these older systems/games, so while I feel bad for those of you who really care about older titles, it's a business decision that's not going to hurt Sony in any significant way. "Sony may be doomed" type of posts are very hyperbolic in my view. I think a ton of people in these forums way overestimate the amount of gamers who play older games.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,765
Omni
This has affected me as well to the point that I think I will be buying third party multiplats on PC only and not both PS and PC like I have been doing in the last couple of years

Thinking about getting a Xbox mainly for B/C purposes and the first party titles (might end up buying third party titles on Xbox and PC instead)
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,697
You only need to look at Xbox to see how bad of an argument this is. Several legacy games have charted in the sales top 10 because they're accessible on the newest consoles. If PS1-3 games were accessible on the PS4 and PS5, sales most certainly would be up.

Absolutely batshit insane that Asura's Wrath is in top 10 paid games right now. Thought I was seeing things for a second.
 

JoJoBae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Layton, UT
As far as the "nobody must be buying those games" argument goes, if Sony didn't kill sales for PSP, PSV and PS3, maybe people would still buy games for them on a semi-regular basis. But they did. No discounts for years now. Unforced error. I'm not putting down €30-40+ for many current games, let alone old digital ones.
I didn't realize they'd stopped sales until the store revamp happened. I'd been waiting on a few games I still wanted to go on sale. At this point I likely won't bother.

I am gonna back up my digitsl Vita games to like 4 different places/drives though. Yeesh.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,953
This is so sad. Really makes you rethink those digital purchases on PlayStation hardware.

Edit: Come to think if it, if you own a physical game that requires updates, doesn't this take that away as well?
 
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so1337

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,521
Sony is trying really hard to erase the legacy of Japan Studio (among other things) so I made sure to buy Tokyo Jungle.

F U Sony. Maybe buying things from your store isn't the best form of protest but I don't care.
 

Jakenbakin

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Jun 17, 2018
12,105
*pours one out for Locoroco Midnight Carnival*

Good night, sweet prince. Shh... shh...
 

Storm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
If you want to buy a game that also recieved a 360 port, highly suggest you buy the 360 versions instead.
 

Stefarno

I ... survived Sedona
Member
Oct 27, 2017
905
I don't have any faith that re-downloads are going to be kept up for more than a year or two - it'll literally be costing them money with zero money coming in to offset that.

It just seems like part of incremental changes starting with shutting the old web store - at some point they'll look at the cost of it against the number of people who would be annoyed and turn it off.

There is already a version of the PSP that can't download games any more so it's not like it can't happen.
 

Rumenapp

Forza Photographer
Member
Nov 9, 2017
13,254
All that money saved from shutting down the online services for Gravity Rush 2 down the drain.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,510

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
This sucks, but I'm not going doomsday on digital purchases on all platforms as a result either.

PS3 was on borrowed time the second they went with the cell processor for it. Am I wrong for thinking this is less likely to happen in the future, even on PlayStation? The expectation should be that any title from PS4 onwards will always be supported (so long as PlayStation is a thing, I guess), no?

And is there seriously just no hope of Sony ever cracking the issue of PS3 titles being stranded on an island?
They can bring over PS1/PS2 classic over to PS4/5 while they work on PS3 for PS4/5. Its been more than a decades since PS3 release, but the question is whether did they tried cracking the code all this time.
 
Feb 27, 2019
1,395
I'm honestly dumbfounded by the number of people in this thread defending this practice.

it's insane but there are always some people who do it.

I see it like this: I am willing (and would prefer) to go all digital and forgo used games, actual "ownership" etc, so long as my purchases come with me going forward and will continue to work on new hardware. That's the trade off for me, and I think it's why Steam has been so successful. I have games I bought in 2005 on my Steam account that I can still download and play.

If there's a danger of those purchases being cut off, then why would I buy anything in that ecosystem? I love revisiting old games and I have limited time so I often come to things late.

This is why I buy all multiplatform games on Xbox.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,446
Yes, BUT

This is true for the majority of games on most platforms. There are millions of new gamers every year that will never play a damned thing from a 2600, a Colecovision, an Intellivision, an NES, a Turbografx-16, a Sega Genesis, an Atari Jaguar, a 3d0, a Saturn, or any arcade machine built from 1979 to 2015.

unless there's a relative with a stack of old ass consoles, his or her own arcade, or a bigass PC loaded up with pirated content these games will never be seen or played.

Are there good games here? absolutely. Some legendary, can't miss stuff. But let's be real about this- the new gamers coming into the industry each year do not give a damn about any of it and are perfectly fine letting those games rot. The games are too old. They lack modern polish, QOL improvements, and multiplayer. There was an amusing Twitter/TikTok video making the rounds where a streamer was shocked and gobsmacked at the concept of "GAME OVER" when she ran out of lives.

Its just something that doesn't happen anymore and new gamers want none of that.

When talking about preserving these games- the preservation is going to largely be for the benefit of those that were around to experience them when they released. Even if a gamer didn't play that title per se they would be familiar enough with contemporary titles to get some enjoyment out of it.
I don't think those consoles you listed have successors on the market haha. Could be wrong tho so correct me if I am
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,446
They aren't. Full compatibility with the XBO aside, only 40 of the 800 OG Xbox games are available on the series X, and only about half of the 360's 1100 games or so are available. This number is fixed and won't be expanding any further.

This is in comparison to about 50ish PS2 games on the PS5, 400 PS3 games (via PSNow), and full compatibility with the PS4.

That's not to excuse Sony shutting down the PS3/PSP/Vita stores (because that is an entirely different issue) but there's a lot of misrepresenting the extent to which previous generation games are available on the Series X.
Wait where did you hear that MS said that the current number of bc titles is unchanging and will never be updated? I'm pretty sure they said they were taking a break to get shit up and running for XSX. Once again could be wrong. I like you put the little PSNow thing like a streaming service means that the current Sony solution even comes close to scratching what MS has going on lmfao in this category Sony is simply pathetic in almost every way
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,788
Toronto
I respect the work that went into the numbers. However, I reject the use of the phrase "will essentially become Xbox console exclusives." In some contexts, sure. But in others, no. The vast majority of people that will ever play a game that falls into this category have already played it and will still be able to play on either PS3 or Xbox 360 console after this store switches off. Hardly what I'd call a defacto exclusive.

It's like saying the moment a multiplatform PS2 game went out of print the Gamecube has a new exclusive. Like, kind of? But not really? It's a weird application of the term.

I mean, it's all about future availability. There's lots of retro gamers here and that means discovering and buying old games for the first time every day.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,398
Must of skipped that one but yeah Nintendo NEEDS to do better too. Of course they somehow still manage to be better than Sony in this regard since a large bulk of first party NES and SNES are available to anyone who pays for online

Large bulk? There are 700 games on the NES. The Switch supports 40.
 

viandante

Member
Apr 24, 2020
3,111
i guess BC/preservation of old stuff isn't important or profitable to sony, i get it, but man if the PS5 had access to a large digital library of PS1/2/3/4 games i'd be ravenously hunting one down right now. instead i'll probably wait 3-4 years until there are enough exclusives to justify the purchase. i realize that i'm "in the minority" on this as far as the larger gaming public is concerned.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,540
unknown.png


This is my Gamstop short selling....I've only sold 17 games of my vita collection so far....
 

Frag Waffles

Member
Apr 7, 2018
1,089
What a disaster. There is a good chance that TLOU2 ends up being my last digital purchase on PlayStation.

Hell, at the rate Sony is going, I might be done buying games on PlayStation platforms permanently.