Watchmen |OT| This is the Moment

Oct 25, 2017
13,768
Even if we didn’t have any of the huge Dr. Manhattan plot twist, I think focusing on this world and the way racism plays a huge role would have still been an interesting show. The racism feels relevant and makes certain aspects of the show feel more personal to me. It doesn’t feel forced, it feels grounded.
Definitely. There are lot of complaints can make about this show and if you want to complain about thematic execution, cool, but the idea that the racial commentary was in anyway half-hearted or tacked-on is so obviously ridiculous that it's not even worth taking seriously as a statement
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,047
The Netherlands
So what do you guys think: is Veidt Trieu’s dad and is he the thing that fell out of the sky on the farmland she bought? Did Looking Glass swipen that one missing Rorschach mask and is he now undercover in 7K?
I can imagine Veidt being 'cast back' to Earth; he crashes in a capsule or something similar, Trieu is 'in' on the plan somehow. She captures him. He is in a form of stasis. Trieu actually keeps him around as a living statue :P
 

jdmc13

Member
Mar 14, 2019
188
I can imagine Veidt being 'cast back' to Earth; he crashes in a capsule or something similar, Trieu is 'in' on the plan somehow. She captures him. He is in a form of stasis. Trieu actually keeps him around as a living statue :P
In the context of his estate being a type of Garden of Eden, it would make sense if his punishment for breaking the rules was to be cast out onto Earth.
 

ninhead

Avenger
Nov 18, 2017
467
I love how hard they're leaning into making the 7K just the most loathesome alt-right shitheads. Reminds me of the Nazi-punching stuff from the Wolfenstein ads. Fuck those people and their feelings.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,842
Just realized we never did see what happened between Angela almost getting shot during the home invasion and her waking up to talk to Judd. I guess something must have happened that made the Calvary realize who Cal was. Wouldn’t Angela have asked Cal what happened during the interim though? Interested in seeing how that’s explained.

and yeah, Dr Manhattan is the kind of person who thinks he’s above humanity but keeps on doing normal man stuff. So him falling in love with yet another random actually does make sense now that I’ve had more time to think about it
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,222
that white night scene feels so loaded now that we know what we know. Before it was just horrifying and thrilling and, while it left some questions about the second assailant, it felt like that could be chalked up to Judd being in on the attack and wanting Angela to survive so he could keep her close or something. Now it's more complicated.

It starts with them dancing and about to have sex. Cal wants his present so he is watching the clock, ticking down to midnight. Who else in this universe was it that had a fixation on watches...


It looks like Angela throws Cal down in front of the couch but the first assailant just keeps coming into the kitchen, and we don't see or hear from Cal for the rest of the sequence. (this was suspect at the time but I assumed he'd been winged by the first shots or something.) Angela attacks the first 7Ker and nobody is visible in the family room in the background. She kicks the first away and turns and gets gutshot, the second assailant walks into the room seemingly also by Cal, if he's even still on the living room floor. Holds the shotgun to Angela's head and she says "Cal." She passes out and wakes up in the hospital with Judd.


In this clip Judd talks about killing his attacker. Then says "you got your guy too. Stabbed him and he bled out in your kitchen. I reckon there's somebody up there looking out for you." He only mentions the one guy. I think this dovetails well with people saying that Manhattan-Cal woke up in that moment and did something to the second attacker, which made 7K-Cyclops realize what he was. And at that point, their plan to go from White Night false flag to Keene's masked police act to President Joe seemed small—which is why Judd befriended Angela immediately after the attack (they don't even address each other by first names initially), to keep her close.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,644
When I heard the line from Keene, "Its hard to be a white man these days", I got a fucking huge grin because you know there are motherfuckers who think that. Man the balls to make your villain practically an alt-right incel.
I probably did the Jack Nicholson headnod in real life, and Laurie's eyeroll was perfect.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
9,749
I love how hard they're leaning into making the 7K just the most loathesome alt-right shitheads. Reminds me of the Nazi-punching stuff from the Wolfenstein ads. Fuck those people and their feelings.
I was wondering about the low ratings for that game on Xbox Live Marketplace the other day, and it turns out it was review bombed by alt-right snowflakes for being "too political" and "leftist propaganda."

Imagine whining about the message that Nazis are bad, lmao.
 

Flaurehn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Mexico City
You know how Dr Manhattan started his life as a god by being still so human, my theoy is that Trieu will let the 7K destroy him and absorbing him or whatever they want to do, and then use the mesmero to force them to kill each other while they can still be affected, thus getting rid of them and Dr M at the same time.

or not, it was just something that occurred to me 😋
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,222
This episode completely jumped the shark. Show is becoming "Lost" stupid.
Nobody who still uses that phrase even knows its meaning. The original usage was for a single moment signifying a TV show past its prime changing up its formula in gimmicky ways to get attention and shirking what made it good in the first place—Fonzie jumping the shark in Happy Days epitomized the stunts they were pulling for publicity along with the loss of focus on the ensemble as Fonzie became a, well, a Fonzie. It then broadened to a more general idea of a piece of media losing sight over time of what made it great originally. The tenor of your post sure makes it seem like you never liked the show much in the first place, and even if you did it's impossible to say that the previous 6 episodes (each of which has largely focused on a different character) established a pattern of what works for you that episode 7 then violated.

So what you're actually saying is that you don't like the show. Congrats! You have permission to move on now.
 

Octodad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,837
Pulling clone babies out of a river, squids raining from the sky, flying out of the atmosphere in a catapult to write a message on the moon, Robert Redford as president, totally fine.

Character from the comic is hidden inside a human? Show is stupid.
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,848
It's based on a comic that has an evil genius transport an interdimensional squid into New York and kill thousands of people.
Ah, let's compare Alan Moore's masterpiece graphic novel to Lindelof's increasing silly fanfiction. You know the thing with the squid - is that it was built up properly.

I really liked this show at first - despite some qualms about the first episode. Every episode since the third has been getting worse and worse IMO. Even last week left me cold despite some neat moments and good concept. It continues to learn harder and harder into stupid comic book shit instead of getting us invested in a show that should be continuing to deconstruct superhero culture and address the racial reality in America.

Mesmerism? The 7K turning from a realistic hate group based on a problematic figure's views TO a nefarious super advanced KKK that wants to rule the world by becoming Dr. Manhattan? It's becoming groan worthy.

And of course, Cal is Dr. Manhattan! Because our main character has to be involved with EVERYTHING. We can't just have a compelling protagonist thrust upon a situation she seems outmatched for... no its "all connected" and her previously-nothing character husband just happens to be God with just about zero narrative buildup to that reveal! (In before little hints that "do I know you?" and the nickname for a dildo is appropriate foreshadowing.)

Also the Veidt plot - interesting at first - is a narrative wet far so far. They need to do something great with that in the last few episodes for it to be worth anything.

This is show is leaning into the cape shit down the stretch, opposite of what is appealing from the original work. It feels like the final seasons of Lost - weak payoffs, narrative contrivances, and full of goofy technology.
 

Octodad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,837
Ah, let's compare Alan Moore's masterpiece graphic novel to Lindelof's increasing silly fanfiction. You know the thing with the squid - is that it was built up properly.

I really liked this show at first - despite some qualms about the first episode. Every episode since the third has been getting worse and worse IMO. Even last week left me cold despite some neat moments and good concept. It continues to learn harder and harder into stupid comic book shit instead of getting us invested in a show that should be continuing to deconstruct superhero culture and address the racial reality in America.

Mesmerism? The 7K turning from a realistic hate group based on a problematic figure's views TO a nefarious super advanced KKK that wants to rule the world by becoming Dr. Manhattan? It's becoming groan worthy.

And of course, Cal is Dr. Manhattan! Because our main character has to be involved with EVERYTHING. We can't just have a compelling protagonist thrust upon a situation she seems outmatched for... no its "all connected" and her previously-nothing character husband just happens to be God with just about zero narrative buildup to that reveal! (In before little hints that "do I know you?" and the nickname for a dildo is appropriate foreshadowing.)

Also the Veidt plot - interesting at first - is a narrative wet far so far. They need to do something great with that in the last few episodes for it to be worth anything.

This is show is leaning into the cape shit down the stretch, opposite of what is appealing from the original work. It feels like the final seasons of Lost - weak payoffs, narrative contrivances, and full of goofy technology.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just disagree with all of this.
 

Jtwo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
743
Ahh imagine dissenting criticism! The cape crowd doesn't have much of it I know.
I think this show in particular is less of a cape crowd thing and more a Lindelof crowd thing. So far this show has been the cleanest and most coherent iteration of his mystery box style of storytelling that has taken painstaking care to answer most questions in short order while not posing too many more questions. This episode in particular, for people paying attention, was a particularly satisfying beat in the story.

The show so far has been two trilogies of episodes. Then theres this one that segued us into the endgame, which was one of the most exciting episodes of TV I have seen since since maybe Season 4 of LOST.
 

Burt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
Ah, let's compare Alan Moore's masterpiece graphic novel to Lindelof's increasing silly fanfiction. You know the thing with the squid - is that it was built up properly.

I really liked this show at first - despite some qualms about the first episode. Every episode since the third has been getting worse and worse IMO.
everyone, it's okay to stop reading here
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,848
I think this show in particular is less of a cape crowd thing and more a Lindelof crowd thing. So far this show has been the cleanest and most coherent iteration of his mystery box style of storytelling that has taken painstaking care to answer most questions in short order while not posing too many more questions. This episode in particular, for people paying attention, was a particularly satisfying beat in the story.

The show so far has been two trilogies of episodes. Then theres this one that segued us into the endgame, which was one of the most exciting episodes of TV I have seen since since maybe Season 4 of LOST.
Fair enough - I think I am finding I just can't do the mystery box stuff anymore I suppose. These reveals just feel so unearned to me. I hated Westworld as well...
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
2,404
every episode since the third has been worse and worse?

bruh, episodes 5 and 6 are masterpieces
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,363
And of course, Cal is Dr. Manhattan! Because our main character has to be involved with EVERYTHING. We can't just have a compelling protagonist thrust upon a situation she seems outmatched for... no its "all connected" and her previously-nothing character husband just happens to be God with just about zero narrative buildup to that reveal! (In before little hints that "do I know you?" and the nickname for a dildo is appropriate foreshadowing.)
Saying this with two episodes to go seems way too soon. You're missing half the puzzle.
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,848
every episode since the third has been worse and worse?

bruh, episodes 5 and 6 are masterpieces
As I said, ep.6 left me cold. Its good overall - but when I get an episode about delving into someone's memories I want something a little more interesting and dramatic from a timeline perspective instead of a black and white straight forward chronology with occasionally subbing the MC face in. The show didn't even delve into the concept of memories not even being reliable - it was really just a fancy flashback episode. The Hooded Justice origin stuff was interesting, but all-in-all I felt it was a bit for a bore in the end. And the mesmerism shit - so DUMB.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,842
I can’t tell if that’s Yahya voicing Manhattan or not in the preview. Does anybody know?