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We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)

GodofWine

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
It's like there is a troll farm dedicated to thrashing EGS.

Y'all wanted steam to have competition, y'all got it.


Steam is such a powerhouse that there is literally no way to build a user base without buying one. People won't leave steam just because a game is a dollar cheaper, or cause the store has a cool chat function.

Epic needed to kick down the door, not knock.
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,174
Chesire, UK
FFWarrior005

FFWarrior005

Alt account
Banned
Jul 13, 2019
534
Fully agree with you OP. I've been sick of just how toxic this place can be on a variety of subjects. It's outrage culture and to say it has gotten old is an understatement. People need to be better.
 
Sidebuster

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,411
California
Shark said:
Should they be? I don't see any reasonable arguments for why I can't buy liquor on Sunday or why smoking a joint should be criminal but supporters will bring up the supposed societal chaos that will be unleashed if you allow either of those things.

I'd like to know what societal harm has come out of micro-transactions or why children have unmonitored access to money to buy them. The 'think of the children' stuff always gets brought up but its almost never supported or explained. Epic has parental controls.
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Well, maybe? If we can figure out ways to keep people from hurting themselves in a way that's not oppressive to people who can handle things like drugs. We did a pretty good job with smoking up until vaping came out. Same with letting companies put sugar in everything. Should probably be something that needs regulation.
 
XR.

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,600
Last edited:
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,174
Chesire, UK
RPGam3r said:
No. I don't even understand why you would ever go this far. It is easy to talk about these games without talking about the exclusivity.
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It is very clearly not, or this thread wouldn't exist.

There's a problem.
I'm suggesting a solution.
People are saying "That won't happen" or "No" without offering an alternative solution or making any substantive points in opposition to my proposal.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Tygre said:
And so we come back to my first point.

Why not?
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Because banning discussion of Borderlands 3, Shenmue 3, The Outer Worlds, Ghost Recon Breakpoint, Control etc (not to mention any other big games that Epic snap up in the future) here would make the forum suffer (Less clicks, members moving to other forums etc).
 
RPGam3r

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,611
Tygre said:
It is very clearly not, or this thread wouldn't exist.

There's a problem.
I'm suggesting a solution.
People are saying "That won't happen" or "No" without offering an alternative solution or making any substantive points in opposition to my proposal.
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No it is. I can talk about any game and not talk about its platform, others can too especially if we are strict about it like we are about console warring and port begging. The problem is people won't get over it. Exclusive content is old topic and is in plenty of other entertainment markets.

Your solution is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Maximo

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,222
When you throw a bad faith argument at someone eventually it wears the person down and I feel like people are purposely or indirectly that really can't be bothered to do some basic research, or in some cases I agree some basic empathy in trying to understand why people have a problem with the Epic Games Store it just becomes a shit show when you still have people coming in with *its just another games store* like some sort of reddit shit stirrer trying to get a reaction out of people.
 
TaySan

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,602
Tulsa, Oklahoma
We can voice our displeasure with EGS without attacking others if they decide to support the platform. Especially developers that take deals with Epic.
 
Nista

Nista

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,114
steviejd1 said:
Because banning discussion of Borderlands 3, Shenmue 3, The Outer Worlds, Ghost Recon Breakpoint, Control etc (not to mention any other big games that Epic snap up in the future) here would make the forum suffer (Less clicks, members moving to other forums etc).
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Most of those games are also going to be out on console platforms as well, so I don't see why we couldn't still discuss them on here. Just apply the "no port begging" rule to EGS store specific comments.

I agree with OP that being toxic to devs or one another about this subject is worrisome and not productive.
 
Netherscourge

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,992
100% agree with OP.

Sick of people personally trashing others over something so completely benign as a videogame store.
 
Gabbo

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,569
Spyder_Monkey said:
I don't appreciate toxicity and neither should anyone but I feel like we need a catch all "why the epic store is so disliked" thread to lay everyone's grievances out and provide a point of reference to understand why some of us don't like it for reasons that aren't "because it's another .exe" so long as it's moderated well and everyone can come in good faith. There is an actual discussion to be had with what Epic is doing, big tech's ever growing influence on gaming with initiatives such as EGS and what Epic should do to actually make their storefront worth using because as of now, there's nothing worth using it over steam outside of a few timed exclusives. Unfortunately every time something is announced for EGS it's rooted into tribalistic non-sense on one side, and dismissal of all complaints because they're being lumped in with said tribalistic non-sense on the other.

No, we shouldn't bad mouth developers for taking deals, it's their business and if they feel like it would benefit their buisness who are we to speak for them. But we should also understand that Epic Games isn't a charity, are not the underdog in anyway and their tactics are very monopolistic (note that this is different than being a monopoly but still not as good).
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This. And in the most recent example the developer in question did go out of their way to incite a reaction - a vicious cycle. Take EGS exclusivity money, make comments disparaging possible customers, backlash, comment on how bad the backlash is and how it's the reason you chose to take EGS money.

Now that being said, No dev nor people on here, we'll say Bronson in particular because he made the thread; don't deserve hate and threats. Bronson has nothing to do with this situation.
Not everyone who disagrees with a devs choice to go with EGS exclusivity is arguing in bad faith, and shouldn't be treated like a pariah because others disagree with them. If someone spews nothing but anger and hatred that's a whole other issue and not related to valid criticisms of Epic, EGS, or devs taking the deals and I don't think should be treated as such.
 
m_dorian

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
Mr. Pointy said:
I'm sorry you have to go through all that shit, Bronson.

I don't like Epic's practices when they buy out Kickstarted games, but realistically, it's a fucking launcher on the same PC I have Steam on. I don't have it at the moment, but I give it about 6-12 months for the feature set to get better and I'll have it.

Fuck it's like fans of league titans Steam Football Club getting mad that upstart team Epic Game Store United is buying the expensive players.
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It really isnt.
Every game store launcher has something that makes them different from the other, the similarity ends on the click to icon action.
Content, features and quality characteristics are not always the same, even prices for the same items are not the same many times.
It is just what each store brings to the consumer that are different and right now Epic adds to their list by subtracting from others whether that is Steam, GoG, Linux even Windows Store.

And that is why EGS is bad for me, because it is denying or delaying my choice.
 
Wanderer5

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,993
Somewhere.
Yeah, depressing that this has become quite a shitshow, and it is really hard to get through the toxic crap all around whenever this kind of discussion pops up. Honestly feel a bit bad for the Ooblets devs even, despite Ben needing to back off a little on discord, but even then, it seems some are slicing together discord messages to add fuel to the fire.
 
makonero

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,693
David___ said:
The fact that Im forced to use the storefront to play a game that I want to goes against the very definition of alternative.
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It's just ironic since I'm not allowed to complain when microsoft does this to get exclusives but you can whine and complain and insult people for the same thing.
 
Chrome Hyena

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,774
DontHateTheBacon said:
There's a difference between not supporting it and what happens on this forum, you have to admit, right?
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I been reading this thread and it really feels like their is an attempt to compare people who have a harsh view of the Epic Game Store and devs who shill for it with the truly toxic, evil types who tell people to "kill yourself" or use hate slurs and stuff on twitter. No one I have seen on ERA has told someone one of those hate filled things without being swiftly moderated and shamed.

Hell the OP himself said it was less than 5% of people who were the really hateful, horrible people. Now if you think people giving their opinions in a... forceful and not always gracious or nice way shouldnt happen thats understandable i just happen to think being frank is not the same being toxic, hateful with stuff like saying kill yourself or racial or sexist slurs.

I think in a conversation its not my job to coddle your feelings. If I think EGS is a sham and pos i can say that. If i think a dev (or journo type) who pushes or gets offended at people who call it a sham or anti consumer are self serving at BEST I can say that. If it hurts someones feelings that I believe that? Too bad. For me its simple as that. Lol this is not The Tonight Show, I dont have to be nice and treat you with kid gloves lest I offend your sensibilities.

Now again I would never condone the evil shit on twitter, but that doesn't happen here. And to say it does a lot is a balled face lie. A few people isnt an epidemic. Especially if they get moderated quickly.

I think the real problem is there is definitely a group who thinks any judgement of devs who try to push the EGS on people is just out of bounds for whatever reason. And they then try to turn that criticism into Gamergate 2.0. Dont act shocked I laugh and call you a shill if you try to convince me that using an inferior product is somehow better for me because the devs like the extra money. Consumers should not suffer inferior products to make someone else some money or to make them feel better.

As a consumer I want the best bang for my buck. Gaming isn't a charity.
 
TreeMePls

TreeMePls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
Chrome Hyena said:
I been reading this thread and it really feels like their is an attempt to compare people who have a harsh view of the Epic Game Store and devs who shill for it with the truly toxic, evil types who tell people to "kill yourself" or use hate slurs and stuff on twitter. No one I have seen on ERA has told someone one of those hate filled things without being swiftly moderated and shamed.
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Dont go into any Pokemon or Diablo Immortal threads
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,181
David___ said:
The fact that Im forced to use the storefront to play a game that I want to goes against the very definition of alternative.
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I mean, if you want a Doritos Locos Taco you kind of only have one place to go to buy it. Stores having specific products that other stores don't have is nothing new in any sense.
 
RPGam3r

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,611
David___ said:
The fact that Im forced to use the storefront to play a game that I want to goes against the very definition of alternative.
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You just don't have an alternative place (on the PC) to play it. The storefront itself is still an alternative compared to other storefronts/services. You're conflating the two things.
 
Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
BronsonLee Fuck man, is that why you aren't a mod anymore? That shit is insane. Why are people like this... Hope the worst is over for you now.
LabouredSubterfuge said:
Thank you OP, it needed saying and yes it does cut both ways.
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While calling people babies or shills is hardly productive and is absolutely a toxic form of discourse, it's nothing compared to the shit OP describes what has happened to him form the other isle.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,139
PlanetSmasher said:
I mean, if you want a Doritos Locos Taco you kind of only have one place to go to buy it. Stores having specific products that other stores don't have is nothing new in any sense.
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Which PC digital distribution service engaged in the tactics epic is doing before EGS launched?

It is something new.
 
Static

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,116
PlanetSmasher said:
I mean, if you want a Doritos Locos Taco you kind of only have one place to go to buy it. Stores having specific products that other stores don't have is nothing new in any sense.
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Paying third parties for exclusives is new to PC though, and it is perhaps a not exclusively positive development. EGS "has to do this" and EGS "is just doing what all businesses do" but they're doing so at my expense and I'm occasionally going to voice my displeasure.
RPGam3r said:
You just don't have an alternative place (on the PC) to play it. The storefront itself is still an alternative compared to other storefronts/services. You're conflating the two things.
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That means that we're specifically talking about publisher/developer facing "choice and alternative," not customer choice or alternative.
 
Commander Quackers

Commander Quackers

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,669
Surface of Me said:
Yeah that was a strange AF comment last time MS did that I think was Tomb raider? Which predates this site.
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Epic threads bring out the craziest talking points
PlanetSmasher said:
I mean, if you want a Doritos Locos Taco you kind of only have one place to go to buy it. Stores having specific products that other stores don't have is nothing new in any sense.
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Except taco bell funded and created it. I could never get that anywhere else period
 
RPGam3r

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,611
Static said:
That means that we're specifically talking about publisher/developer facing "choice and alternative," not customer choice or alternative.
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Hulu, Netflix, Disney+, Prime etc are all alternative services and they all have exclusive content. The customer has the choice to go into said services or storefronts or not.
 
Fanto

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
As it is said in the OP and in the title of the thread, I think a lot of the actual toxicity in these discussions doesn't necessarily come from the discussion about the EGS itself. The toxicity comes from insults, accusations, name-calling, or far worse things directed at other forum members or at developers/publishers/journalists which, if they are happening, can make the threads feel hostile or unwelcoming. However, it can also come from people who act in a dismissive and/or flippant manner in regards to the EGS topic, since that is disrespectful to people who aren't doing any of the above and are trying to have a serious discussion about it whether they agree or disagree. Low effort shitposts rarely ever help.

At the end of the day, this is about game companies making business decisions and us arguing about the possible positive and negative impacts that they could have with each other on a video game enthusiast forum. I think we can all agree that it should be possible to do this, and even possible to harshly and strongly criticize those decisions or disagree with each other's positions, without any of the aforementioned bullshit happening at the same time.
 
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