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reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,891
Oh God I just watched the season ("series", cause it felt like that) finale. What the fuck.

I don't want to hear anyone here talk shit about LOST again. LOST was incredibly more fin during the ride and the finale was not really that bad. You want bad? See Dexter's series finale. This was just all over the place with the various time lines and the bullshit inception type plot points.. That is not enjoyable to keep up with. Don't know how the next season will go, but I don't know if I even care anymore.
 

Jokab

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
875
I liked season 2. I honestly don't at all understand the negativity in this thread; most of my friends liked it too
 

Zepp Twofist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
I binged S2 over the past two days, and have to say I liked it better than the first. I can see if people followed along week to week that the timeline stuff could get too confusing, but as a binge show it worked well. I managed to avoid all spoilers and discussions about the show while it was running, so this is probably how I will watch any future seasons as well.
 

SArcher

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
Oh God I just watched the season ("series", cause it felt like that) finale. What the fuck.

I don't want to hear anyone here talk shit about LOST again. LOST was incredibly more fin during the ride and the finale was not really that bad. You want bad? See Dexter's series finale. This was just all over the place with the various time lines and the bullshit inception type plot points.. That is not enjoyable to keep up with. Don't know how the next season will go, but I don't know if I even care anymore.

Lost wishes it was half as good as Westworld.
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,645
Ditto. I haven't even finished Legion S2 yet because that show became absolutely grating. Think I might just give the finale a watch when I'm free, and skip like the prior 4 episodes. At least with WW I wanted and was able to finish it despite my numerous complaints and peeves. It's still a top tier show...when it wants to be.

Still haven't watched the final seasons of Dexter and True Blood now that I think about it. Hopefully WW doesn't absolutely fail me like they did.

Glad I'm not the only one. I really want to like Legion. But it's absolutely obtuse in the worst way. Even reading cliffs later doesn't help.
 

Deleted member 388

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,813
Lost wishes it was half as good as Westworld.
Depends on what you're looking for most in a show. LOST was insanely good at fleshing out multiple characters and creating a rich mythos. Storytelling was also good for a few seasons but that last season was a nosedive, albeit, still okay. Westworld excels at imagery, sound and, although convoluted, storytelling. But I could care less about any of the characters, especially with the concept of altering or copying personalities. I like both but for very different reasons.

I can see why they keep getting compared since their main storytelling hook is teasing viewers with mystery via lack of information and misdirection...which was a bit more novel when LOST did it but with so many shows doing it now, it's getting exhausting.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,071
There are some moments in season 2 that really compliment and flesh out elements in season 1. For example, I loved Delores witnessing the "real world" and the city.

There were a couple of cringe scenes in season 1 I could ignore (e.g. Lee Sizemore is a joke of a character in season 1). Unfortunately, they seem to have doubled down on them in season 2. Moments like the seducing kamikaze, Shogun World, Delos' goons acting like brainless henchmen who are generically awful people...

I don't see me rewatching season 2 as a whole. However, I wonder if it's possible to cut the season down to a single special "movie" of sorts. Alternatively, with all the jumps back and forth in the timeline throughout the series, it would theoretically be possible to seamlessly integrate some of the scenes into season 1. It's something I'll look into once it comes out on Blu-Ray.

Either way, I'm still interested in season 3.
 
Oct 27, 2017
127
Just finished season 2. What a nose dive in quality. Last 2 episodes raised their game and improved the story line substantially .

The most frustrating thing is that the premise is great but the execution is so poor and comic book-ey .

Season 1 was incredible : (
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
So I just finished the season and there's a very particular sci-fi game from a few years ago I feel like this is aping from (or at least doing the same thing) but I don't wanna say the name because spoilers. However:

Dolores totally beamed the hosts onto a satellite that's gonna launch into space SOMA-style, right? It's gotta be that. Nobody can touch them if they're out in the cosmos and powered by solar rays.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Jeffrey Wright could totally voice Solid Snake.

"Metal Gear?!"

Finished season 2, much better than the first, but still a bit drawn out. Still better than a lot of shows.

Took almost two seasons to have one likeable character (Bernard) and even then he's only "likeable". Anthony Hopkins is very good in his role, even if his ridling was overdone. Curious to see where they take season 3.

Ed Harris elevates his character, it's quite a narrow character, his mannerism is excellent. Going from William to "The Man in Black" is still not really believable, not sure if they'll be delving into that onward. I think they should pretty much drop all the characters at this point and go with new ones. I'm guessing season 3 will be a VR world only.

Also, Luke Hemsworth looks like Tom Berenger.

5gQReD9.jpg
 
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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I'm late to this post, but Westworld doesn't have the character building or storytelling qualities that Lost had. Period. Like, Lost was an inconsistent mess but let's not get crazy.
This. Lost had an entire cast of amazing characters regardless of how fucked the later seasons got. WW at best has 1 or 2 characters who are inconsistently mediocre to solid. Hell I would say their best character is Akechata who has only really been in a single episode with any meaningful role.
 

ComputerBlue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,498
Just about caught up, only 2 episodes to go. Just finished the episode where it focused on Akecheta, amazing episode and I hope he plays a bigger role next season, he's such a great character. But I'll be pissed if Maeve doesn't pull through.

So far this season has been great...and hearing C.R.E.A.M. was a surprise, but a welcome one! Though I hate what Dolores did to Teddy.

Sucks this show takes 2 year breaks.
 

Dreezy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
850
First I thought Delos was the younger version of Ford... then I thought Akane tore out her own heart and was carrying it around... lmao

Really enjoying the season so far tho.
 

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
Phew, finished the season. It's kind of baffling how a show with so many twists, layers and surprises also somehow manages to feel like it's dragging on. Maybe it's because the twists around the core concepts render almost everything that happens inconsequential .

Thankfully I had a lightbulb moment halfway through the season. The show was getting increasingly complex, and then suddenly out of nowhere... a tiger! That made me go... "hold on, this show wouldn't happen to be a Lindeloff joint would it?" A quick Google later, I knew how to watch the show. Switch off my brain, stop trying to figure it out and try to just enjoy the ride.
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
Wow S2 was so terrible. It reminds me of going from S1 to S2 of True Detective, but of course it wasn't that bad.

I had no interest this season in reading summaries in order to understand what was happening.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I feel like calling this show "complex" is actually giving it way too much credit. That descriptor tends to lean *some* people into thinking that the show actually has a great narrative, but it's just too complex for the average viewer to understand. I would say it was more obtuse and meandering with shoddy characterizations throughout that serve only to confuse the viewer because the writers are up their own asses. You could turn any story into the disjointed nonsensical mess that WW S2 mostly turned out to be, but that doesn't make your narrative complicated, it just makes it a bad story.

In fact, most theories were way more complex than what we actually got because we had to go to these great lengths to make sense of what we were watching. Like flashback to episodes 1-3. A ton of discussion that Delos goons and Floki already knew about Bernard and were running him through a simulation to get more answers. This explained why Bernard was finishing sentences, his overall disorientation, and why everyone there never really cared to question Bernard a bit more about why the fuck they found him where he was, how and why he "killed all of them", and so much more. Humans don't act the way any of these people did, so naturally there had to be something up with not only Bernard, but EVERYONE. Noooope. They played that part of the storyline practically straight, which I still find insane. What a waste of Skarsgaard btw.
 

Phabh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,715
Being in more of a negative camp I don't really have much to say regarding the finale that hadn't been said before. Season 2 was rather disappointing and continued to exemplify season 1's biggest flaws. The show is it's greatest enemy - the concept is highly interesting and they can pull off some great episodes using it (Riddle of the Sphinx, Kiksuya), but the core plot is full of cardboard cut-out characters that function more as a plot device rather than actual characters and their arcs are just uninteresting. The fact that the most well received episodes this season were sidestories says a lot.

My biggest issue would be what showrunners teased beforehand - that there would be twists, but since reddit figured out every season 1 twist in advance they will be much more abrupt so as to still be surprising. Season 1 was a neat puzzlebox, one that's emotionally cold as it is concerned more with the puzzles rather than characters, but one in which all the pieces neatly fit together by the end. Season 2 was still a puzzlebox, but rather than building up to some greater narrative and revelations the mysteries are built on obscuring the truth, making the narrative intentionally confusing and lying to the viewer. That's disappointing and a huge part why this season feels that much more aimless.

Generally, the show is classic Nolan, be it Christopher or Jonathan. Premise of the show is interesting, the plot presented is somewhat complicated, but it feels much more intricate due to narrative framing choices. Westworld season 2 however feels like the point where that was taken too far. Intertwining character viewpoints and timelines jumping haphazardly forwards and backwards in time while obscuring key information and character motivations were intentionally overtly complicated without enhancing the narrative and that made it that much less enjoyable to the viewer.

Ultimately, I will still watch season 3, probably. It's entertaining at times, much like a Kojima game is entertaining at it's most when the plot goes loco and you can do nothing more than revel in the insanity. Only in Westworld instead of plot contrivances you've got narrative contrivances. They're on a similar level when it comes to surface thematic depth. I liked the finale in that how confusing it was was charming, but as resolution to half-baked season 2 arcs it's unsatisfying and I fully expect season 3 to go further that way, so I'm welcome to more Westworld, for now. I just wish season 3 finally has enough plot to span the entire season, because both in season 1 and season 2 same plotlines could have been told in half the episodes without losing much fidelity. A man can dream.

That said, it's still a pretty show and the music is great. I hope they can keep up at least to some level the production values if they get budget cuts in face of falling ratings.

Disappointed by this season as well. The non-chronological story telling was just there to obscure things and brought for negatives than positives. The show is very Nolan, intriguing high concept but lacks lovable characters and emotional impact.
MIB shooting his daughter is a perfect example of this.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
Just finished going through Season 2 of the show; I found Season 1 good-to-great but with a lot of bloat due to narrative mystery box intentional blurring, leading to a lot of characters and subplots feeling meaningless from the amount of obscurity pulled on the viewer, and this season seemed designed in the same exact way. I find the characters and show in theory very poignant and entertainment with fridge logic, but very cold and distant to watch in practice due to the majority of the content of each episode being characters talking in empty high concept shorthand over and over without any understanding by the viewer of what anything means or why any character is doing anything. Seems like you guys already discussed this over and over a few times too.

Both seasons to be seemed like a solid B with certain episodes and themes being especially good and prestige drama quality, such as the episode entirely about Akecheta; I think that episode was the strongest by far because of how straightforward the narrative was. The ShogunWorld stuff seemed mostly shoehorned in without much purpose and probably would've felt a little more meaningful if the two main characters from those episodes actually joined Maeve's Golden Company. I'm still interested in Season 3, it's not as bad as Legion Season 2 or later seasons of like Orphan Black or Banshee or something, but a lot of the original concept of the show's narrative feels completely spent to me at this point; the show will have to reinvent itself quite a bit for Season 3. I look forward to seeing what it does next time!
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,131
You know the show/season has issues when the most universally episodes are the self contained side stories.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,130
I'm sorry guys but it turns out all of us who criticize the show are just a bunch of filthy casuals

Quoting HBO President

"It's not for casual viewers," he continued. "It requires your attention. Jonah and Lisa like to challenge their viewers and many feel rewarded by that. It's a unique show and that's what we're looking for."

I know he's the president of HBO but claiming that reviewers felt season 2 satisfying is quite reaching, outside of self-contained episodes I haven't seen that level of universal praise and the number of Emmy nominations it received is clearly in part due to HBO's influence on ATAS.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that the characters suck or that the challenge comes from trying to figure out what the hell is going in rather than grappling with deep philosophical issues. Whatever you want to use to excuse the poor viewer ratings tho.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I'm sorry guys but it turns out all of us who criticize the show are just a bunch of filthy casuals

Quoting HBO President



I know he's the president of HBO but claiming that reviewers felt season 2 satisfying is quite reaching, outside of self-contained episodes I haven't seen that level of universal praise and the number of Emmy nominations it received is clearly in part due to HBO's influence on ATAS.

LMAO. The issue was that we're paying too much attention. If I was just "casually" watching this, I definitely wouldn't care enough to complain about all the stupid shit that plagued this latest season (character motivations, story plots, everything).
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Just Write has his take on Westworld season 2, but with a difference:

He does not criticize the disjointed timeline of the show, but goes into other aspects of the show and offers solutions.

 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
I liked the finale because it actually felt consequential. Felt like the entire rest of the season was pointless side stories and subplots that ultimately led nowhere. If you trim the fat basically 80% of the season's plot advancement happened on the last episode.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I liked the finale because it actually felt consequential. Felt like the entire rest of the season was pointless side stories and subplots that ultimately led nowhere. If you trim the fat basically 80% of the season's plot advancement happened on the last episode.

This is true. With them jumping back and forth in time they gave some nice background context (with the whole Delos storyline, especially), but the events barely even moved besides the ending.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I liked the finale because it actually felt consequential. Felt like the entire rest of the season was pointless side stories and subplots that ultimately led nowhere. If you trim the fat basically 80% of the season's plot advancement happened on the last episode.

Yeah. Reminded me of the complaints with modern comics - too much decompression and meandering. The entire "Valley Beyond"/Forge plot is an entire show unto itself. Forget sentient robots and continent sized theme parks - that Matrix reality of copying consciousness deserved a whole lot more than vague allusions for 9 episodes. We deserved more than Architect Ben Barnes 3 minute nihilistic exposition on the human condition and Dolores reading Sparknotes on rich assholes who went to the park. We deserved more than MiB explaining that they largely achieved their brain copying using fucking hats.

It really is a travesty that they sacrificed plot, story, and characters for mystery via obfuscation. Literally no plotline resolution felt earned to me in the end, and the setup going forward is hilariously meh. I really hope they just get back to the basics of good storytelling instead of trying to compete with Reddit.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
I just finished season 2, I like it xD bring on season 3. Really hyped actually...

All the shogun stuff was just filler garbage if I'm being honest though, I did not like those at all although it was pretty I guess.