Of course WW2 is taught in school in South Korea. It's just that the girl (and the stylist) didn't study enough or don't give AF.
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When is a swastika not a swastika, but a swastika?
- Thread starter haziq
- Start date
Probably not a good idea to wear a shirt with a picture of a guy who stabbed his girlfriend to death regardless.
I think it's pretty euro/american centric viewpoint that everyone in every continent and country should know how deeply harmful some symbols are in different histories/cultures'. Sure you can point that out to them and then if they are basic decent people they stop using it but at the same time it doesn't automatically make them horrible people. Same is true other way around. If you wear t-shirt with the old imperial japanese flag in US or Europe almost no one will give shit. Do the same in Korea or China and people certainly will give you a look. People really overestimate how much average person knows history of even their own country. less than that of history of their continent and even less than that of world history.
It's taught but the Nazi part isn't as emphasized. Remember that Korea became an independent nation on VJ day, so the war's significance is focused Japan's actions.
Also that symbol is basically the reverse of the 만자 which is seen all over South Korea at temples and places.
That Q anon shirt makes me suspect of this particular person though, lol
I've seen some pretty wild shirts being sold in Seoul. Most Koreans, even younger ones who understand English, have no idea what these shirts mean at all.
That doesn't explain her wearing the Qanon shirt that someone linked above. So her "not knowing" gets a massive side eye from me in that context. Unless she (or her manager) just bought a shitload of horrible shirts without ever bothering to get the meaning behind them. Which is just stupid and irresponsible for someone in the public eye to do.
Pretty much where I'm at on it - something being taught doesn't mean the people it's being taught to are going to pay attention or internalize it, particularly not if the information is completely irrelevant in their careers... until it's not, now, I guess.
The QAnon shirt is fascinating in that I don't even know how the hell it got there to be used in an outfit. I have a pretty hard time believing any of it was intentional, given that this sort of controversy doesn't seem like it particularly benefits anyone involved, especially not a member of one of the more international-facing Kpop groups, and one that tries to court a pretty broad appeal. But then, I also find it baffling that there wouldn't be more oversight in terms of what is available to a stylist to use for an idol's outfits in public appearances. It's all just very fucking weird.
Yeah it's def a nazi swastika since it's a pic of Sid wearing one. The Buddhist/Hindu Swastika is different looking anyways and cane be used by members of those faiths.
However, even then a lot of members of these faiths in the west have been disowning the symbol since the Nazis claimed it. There are plenty of religious folks that want to reclaim it, but also know they can't use it on their buildings anymore like say the Buddhist temple in Seattle that used to have it until they removed it.
Funny enough you can still buy Buddhist/Hindu swastika's online in even places like Amazon lol.
However, even then a lot of members of these faiths in the west have been disowning the symbol since the Nazis claimed it. There are plenty of religious folks that want to reclaim it, but also know they can't use it on their buildings anymore like say the Buddhist temple in Seattle that used to have it until they removed it.
Funny enough you can still buy Buddhist/Hindu swastika's online in even places like Amazon lol.
Nah Sex Pistols were just shitheads, take a look at Johnny Rotten.
Not that it forgives her for wearing a swastika, because it's not that difficult via cultural assimilation to understand that it's a bad thing. I wasn't raised in South Korea personally, but many of my closest friends were, and yes, we do learn about WWII in sort of the same way western schools teach it, though given the context of the times for Korea, the framing is much different because of Japan.
These idols always get styled by stylists before they go outside, no matter where they go. So this isn't on Chaeyoung, but the stylist definitely fucked up. An idol from the same company (different group) wore a shirt with 'cunt' on it just a week before the Q-Anon shirt. This is unfortunately a regular occurrence, as foreign stylists usually just pick shirts that look cool.
fast fashion company Shein got in trouble for selling a Swastika necklace lol
https://www.heyalma.com/the-shein-swastika-necklace-controversy-explained/
You can also buy Buddhist Swastika rings/necklaces/items on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Swastika-Mantra-Stainless-Steel/dp/B09M4DP4ZT
Thant's John Lydon who is, somehow, an ever bigger nobber.
Still is.
Sid vicious died in 79, that is johnny rotten LMAO
Still is.
Yeah nah that's bad shit. It is true that swastikas are more in-line with their original meaning when used as iconography in Asia, when I was in Japan a physical map I picked up had the region's Buddhist temples all marked by swastikas, but they were straight-angled 180 degree Swastikas, which is AFAIK their legit non-fascist appearance. Swastikas positioned in a diagonal way are 100% Nazi.
This is a recurring thing. Every once in a while you hear about somebody wearing a Nazi uniform or blackface. Most of the time you can just chalk it up to ignorance.
Uhhhhh...
Uhhhhh...
This is on the stylist. Wardrobes are picked out for idols when they are out and about doing events/meet ups or whatever else is scheduled.
Might be a miscommunication thing or something. They probably saw the USA flag and that was it. QAnon, outside of the west isn't really as known, especially to a Kpop idol.
I like to give people second chances and I can see how someone from SK can think "US is cool, let me wear that stars&stripes top" and not think about what the Q on there means, but yea .. that she then wears another very questionable one not long after is a bad bad look and makes me think there is more going on there.
So why are we giving an adult woman the benefit of the doubt after she already had to apologize for a Q Anon shirt?
Seriously, those are two very curious coincidences
Seriously, those are two very curious coincidences
Can a Korean person tell me if this is true?
Because I see kids drawing nazi signs on desks all the time and when you call them out they know nothing.
Still is.
Bitch ass nazi. Anyway huge side eye at anyone that tries to "but it existed before nazis" the swastika. It shouldn't be around anymore sorry.
Because she is a idol, and idol company are very strict in how their idol is usually presented outside and is not up to the idol, but the company and people they hire to dress up the idol.
Like they can't have boyfriend/girlfriend type and if they are a seiso or gravure idol, etc.
Agreed. I can understand it in the western world. I rather not have violence coming towards anybody Asian if they were wearing the symbol whether it's in Europe or the USA. But I don't think that should stop them from wearing it in Asian countries where there are strong cultural ties to the symbol.
Still is.
That's Johnny rotten. Sid Vicious did far worse believe it or not
In her defense, Nazis would want her dead.
She shouldn't be wearing the shirt. I think it's likely an embrace of the punk aesthetic (as much as you can do that on a t-shirt), and for Sid Vicious he was a junky dumbass trying to be edgy. He may have been a real Nazi, I don't know. He's dead.
I really don't think the thought behind it is deeper than "iconic punk man, happens to be wearing edgy t-shirt". She still shouldn't wear it. Hopefully it's a learning moment.
In no way do I think anyone on her team thought it was just a religious symbol.
She shouldn't be wearing the shirt. I think it's likely an embrace of the punk aesthetic (as much as you can do that on a t-shirt), and for Sid Vicious he was a junky dumbass trying to be edgy. He may have been a real Nazi, I don't know. He's dead.
I really don't think the thought behind it is deeper than "iconic punk man, happens to be wearing edgy t-shirt". She still shouldn't wear it. Hopefully it's a learning moment.
In no way do I think anyone on her team thought it was just a religious symbol.
There's two main factors about K-Pop which sadly means shit like this can pass through a filter.
1. They don't choose their own clothing, especially when they're as famous as TWICE.
2. Most of the idols will go to Multi-Art "schools". These places are there for rich idols to legally circumvent having to go to school while keeping up with an idol schedule. You learn absolutely nothing, you don't actually go to class, and you receive super easy "homework" to pass your grades. Chaeyoung has been at a school like this since Middle School and she's been in training since she was a little girl.
It's why a lot of people keep getting angry at idols debuting younger and younger, the honest truth is that a lot of them just have elementary or middle school educations at best and it shows.
That said, I'm still side-eyeing the ignorance of her and her stylist for the swastika. I've known about shit like that since Elementary but assuming she's redpilled is stupid.
I know for some people it's insane to believe that other countries don't know everything about America but this can happen. :P
The swastika one was very stupid, yes, but expecting everyone who doesn't live in the US to know what that Q shirt stands for is unrealistic.
1. They don't choose their own clothing, especially when they're as famous as TWICE.
2. Most of the idols will go to Multi-Art "schools". These places are there for rich idols to legally circumvent having to go to school while keeping up with an idol schedule. You learn absolutely nothing, you don't actually go to class, and you receive super easy "homework" to pass your grades. Chaeyoung has been at a school like this since Middle School and she's been in training since she was a little girl.
It's why a lot of people keep getting angry at idols debuting younger and younger, the honest truth is that a lot of them just have elementary or middle school educations at best and it shows.
That said, I'm still side-eyeing the ignorance of her and her stylist for the swastika. I've known about shit like that since Elementary but assuming she's redpilled is stupid.
I know for some people it's insane to believe that other countries don't know everything about America but this can happen. :P
The swastika one was very stupid, yes, but expecting everyone who doesn't live in the US to know what that Q shirt stands for is unrealistic.
Displaying the swastika in a western country where its irrevocably associated with the Nazis is clearly wrong. Displaying it in a manner that clearly alludes to Nazism (as in the OP) is also clearly wrong. Saying that literally billions of people (many of whom fought against the Nazis in WW2 and had their share of losses and trauma) should have an important cultural/religious symbol (that they have used for thousands of years) taken from them because of the Nazis' actions is fucked.
That's on the stylist. The Sid one is on her and apologized for it. I don't know what they teach in history over there, but you would figure these companies would have like a group of people researching what's acceptable or not. There's been too many instances already
There are Buddhist temples in NYC with swastikas on them and it's not an issue.
Tbh I believe this. Just imagine all the shirts in the US with Chinese, Japanese and Korean lettering on them, and people buying them without knowing what they say or what the symbols mean.
Is it a...supreme unlucky coincidence that this same artist was wearing both a q-anon shirt AND a swastika? I don't know, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt - people EVERYWHERE are more ignorant than we hope. I think this speaks more to indifference than malice. But being an international pop star with a team of stylists, they can't afford to be so blasé. This shit hurts if you're a Jewish fan (or a socially conscious person) and it normalizes the parading of shitty symbols under the guise of "I just thought it looked cool!" Lots of bad faith actors that will use shit like this to further their dog whistles.
Yeah I was thinking of qualifying that statement but I erred on the side of absolutes 😛 I think it should be usable in its original form/context wherever but I don't begrudge western countries that outlaw its use (though even then, I think it's legal for artistic/religious/educational purposes in places?)
Korea was occupied by an Axis Power lol, it wasn't some distant isolated place far removed from WW2, it was a direct victim of the war. I wouldn't argue they're a horrible person, but worryingly ignorant at best - but in this case it might not have been her choice.