yeeeeah.....this isn't true. Some years, it's somewhat comparable. Most years, Nintendo publishes significantly more software than any other company in the industry.
Which console manufacturer has the best stable of IPs?
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see my above quote. I absolutely did not. I excluded a shit ton of stuff from Sony and could triple that list if I included "everything and the kitchen sink."
Yeah, the only company that even comes close to rivaling Nintendo in quantity of output is Bandai-Namco.
But are you going to admit that you didn't even try with your Nintendo list?
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Sony doesn't use Sony IPs past a generation. Kratos is the only character I can think of that has successfully shown up in three of four generations. PS1 was filled with classics, but Sony doesn't own the IPs.
Yeah they really hit a wide swath of genres. Look at the last 18 months even...
Days Gone - single player action/adventure
Spider-Man - single player action/adventure
God of War - single player action/adventure
Shadow of the Colossus - single player action/adventure
Detroit: Become Human - single player action/adventure
And coming up we've got...
Concrete Genie - single player action/adventure
MediEvil - single player action/adventure
Death Stranding - single player action/adventure
The Last of Us 2 - single player action/adventure
Ghost of Tsushima - single player action/adventure
And that's why we haven't seen Wipeout, Medievil, Everybody's Golf, Gran Turismo, or a whole bunch of remasters this gen. Oh, wait.
Yes these are all obviously the same game and genre. Sony should just quit the act right now.
Gran Turismo
Twisted Metal
Hot Shots Golf
SOCOM
MLB
Wipeout
Ratchet and Clank
Killzone
Warhawk
Siren
Infamous
were all multi generational IP, off the top of my head. at least 2 of 4, some are 3 of 4, Gran Turismo and Hot Shots are 4 of 4 I think
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Major League Baseball is not an IP. Shit, it's not even the only game to have the MLB license.
I mean, I think Nintendo still wins depending on where you make that cutoff and how you define active (how narrow you go here determines a lot of what can be counted as active or not since many IPs still make regular appearances, just not always as brand new games). Microsoft doesn't have enough to really be in this conversation, and Sony doesn't actually have a ton of active IPs, certainly not longer running ones with ONLY Ratchet and Clank and God of War making it to the new generation alongside MediEvil getting a specific remake of the older ones.
Sony doesn't also rely on franchises as much, which I feel like somewhat inflates their count when tons of those games are just singular entries with no clear future... or sometimes share certain things, but can be several different IPs technically. For example, David Cage has made Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, and Detroit... Those are 3 IPs... but they're not going to go anywhere further and all fall under the umbrella of the David Cage-verse so to speak. Meanwhile, Fire Emblem has over 10 extremely different entries that largely register as independent games, but they'd all fall under the Fire Emblem singular IP despite being as different as the three Cages games I listed earlier (if not more so, I'm not a huge Cage fan, so, but he provides a great frame of reference for this conversation).
Sony has had a first party major league baseball title on the playstation since the PS1. It's currently named MLB: The Show which is the ONLY Major League Baseball title being developed by anyone.
Prior to the show, that game was produced under different names like MLB: Pennant Race and MLB 98/2000/2001/2002/2003/2004/2005.
Those games were both developed AND published by Sony and were first party IP, even if the MLB name was licensed. It's no different than the SEGA SPORTS titles like Joe Montana Football that Sega was pumping out during the 16 bit era. Third party studios could and did pay to make other *differently named* MLB titles, but Sony was just better at it.
Those games were first party exclusive IP, developed by internal studios, and Sony owns the rights to the "MLB: The Show" name.
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You really need to take a look at some of the Sony IP lists in this thread, or just get more familiar with them in some way. I'm not going to repeat myself or others on a point that has been made countless times already.
Anyways, I consider 5 years a good cutoff for "active" IPs. And ports don't count, it has to be a new game. That means it has been over 5 years since a new Mario Kart or NSMB game. And sure, those are big IPs and great games, but even Mario Kart 8 isn't doing much for me in 2019, and MK9 is nowhere in sight. And for a lot of Nintendo IPs the story is much worse.
Labeling Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. as non-active franchises is probably the funniest thing I've read in this thread. Even if you discount the Deluxe ports, which is insane considering how strongly the market has embraced them, both series have received new mobile entries within the past three years. So yeah, they're active franchises.
I agree that discounting a title that hasn't seen a release in 5 years is a bit silly. The PS4 and Xbox One are both over 5 years old. I would say if it hasn't seen an entry in 2 generations it's probably not accurate to call an IP "active" per se.
I personally prefer Sony, but Nintendo is in a completely different ballpark. It's like comparing HBO to Disney. Yeah HBO creates amazing titles that push artistic boundaries and tell compelling and mature stories, but everyone in the world knows who Mickey Mouse is.
Ok, so I missed Microsoft taking a swing at the MLB license after years of "The Show" being the only MLB game on the market. How does that change a single thing I said?
Really?
You know they own all the Rare IPs yeah? Which if brought back and done properly would be pretty big stuff.
Let alone all the other stuff they own that they've left for longer than they should.
Any old IP can be rejuvenated if brought back properly. Look at God of War.
The N64 with every single Rare IP on it sold an anemic 36 million consoles total. The best selling rare developed title was Goldeneye, and the Bond license is not among the rare IP.
How on earth is "God of War" an Old IP?
God of War 1 and 2 sold about 4 million copies each on PS2, God of War III sold 5 million copies on PS3, and Chains of Olympus sold about 3 million on PSP before God of War PS4 sold 10+ million copies on PS4.
Sony kept God of War an active IP generation over generation. The Rare stuff largely hasn't been seen in a decade and hasn't been relevant since the 1990s.
Now do action/platformers for Nintendo and multiplayer shooters for Xbox since you like deconstructing games in such a reductionist way.
Once again- name recognition and strength of IP are two completely different things. Mickey Mouse is more universally known, but Game of Thrones got 20 million people an episode watching season 8.
Mickey Mouse has *never* been that huge. It's apples and oranges.
I would say their IP has everything to do with it. Nintendo has shown time and time again that they don't treat their handhelds like a second or third tier device, and they put out a ton of original and established IP on their handhelds frequently and consistently. People aren't buying Nintendo's handhelds for no reason. Yeah, the competition was lacking, but it also showed how much more care Nintendo puts into the handheld space and how much they're willing to develop for their handheld devices which has made them so consistent much like Sony is in the home console space. They make their handhelds worth owning.
You said MLB is Sony IP. That was not true. And btw that's multiplatform.
Nintendo has the best stable of stable IPs, if that makes sense. You're getting Mario, Zelda, Smash, Pokemon, Animal Crossing more or less every console. The ones that don't make regular appearances have a huge demand when they do, like Fire Emblem and Metroid.
Sony has a very good lineup of IPs, but there's no guarantee how long they'll be around. tlou is most likely gone after this sequel, there may be 2 more HZD games, who knows. In some ways thats a good thing but in others, I'd like to see these franchises grow over time. They've had some successful IPS that they've let die after a while.
Sony has a very good lineup of IPs, but there's no guarantee how long they'll be around. tlou is most likely gone after this sequel, there may be 2 more HZD games, who knows. In some ways thats a good thing but in others, I'd like to see these franchises grow over time. They've had some successful IPS that they've let die after a while.
I don't think we disagree as much as you think. Nintendo put a lot of effort into the handheld space, and leveraged the strength of the NES to turn the Gameboy into a success. The stranglehold they had on the market from the retail side at that time ensured that contemporaries like the Lynx, Game Gear, and Turboexpress portable would never get off the ground, at least in the US.
It was that market concentration that ensured that the gameboy would be uncontested in the handheld space. Those systems were sent to die, and barely any effort was spent marketing and producing them.
The nomad? a US only device, poorly marketed, with no exclusive software. It was an extension of the Genesis SEGA put no more effort into than the 32X.
Sony was the first company to put serious dollars into competing with the gameboy, and even then only for a single generation as the handheld market collapsed shortly before the release of the Vita- which was similarly left to die in the US.
With the exception of the PSP, Nintendo wasn't competing on the strength of their IP with *anyone* significant in the handheld space for 30 years.
But God of War was rejuvenated. It was reimagined.
Also, it's a 14 year old IP. It's not exactly new.
I said MLB because sony changed the name of their first party MLB game across generations. It's currently "The Show", it used to be called something else.
MLB The Show is exclusive and can never be ported to any other system, nor can any of the other MLB games sony made because they aren't multiplatform.
The only thing licensed are the names of the players, franchise names, and ballparks. The rest of the game is built from the ground up and is exclusive to the platform, much like racing games like Gran Turismo and Driveclub which license cars from auto manufacturers.
your comparison is a bad one. God of War was a consistently active IP. You say it's "reimagined?" Sony "reimagined" the God of War IP into a multiplayer title With God of War: Ascension (which i forgot to list previously) on PS3.
There is a vast, vast difference between a legacy IP that gets entries every couple of years, and an IP that's been completely dead and irrelevant since the late 90s, which is where virtually all of the Rare IP is right now.
I'd bet in 10 years Sony will have a bunch of new IP that we wouldn't recognize now. You might see a few established franchises hanging around, or making a comeback, but they won't be on Uncharted 10, TLoU 8 and whatever. They'll have new stuff. Nintendo will still be making Mario, Pokemon, Zelda etc.
This isn't even close.
This isn't even close.
I truly do not get this distinction.
Mickey is more recognizable, undeniably drives more sales, has huge media properties that millions of kids watch.
It's perfectly fine for someone to "like Game of Thrones more than Mickey" of course, but to question his pull is odd.
I sometimes wonder what we would get if Sony managed their IPs like Nintendo did. Did Resistance need to die, the 1st and 3rd games were well liked and that style of story based FPS isn't being made a lot anymore. Twisted Metal seem like an obvious choice to try a hero shooter type game. Legend of Dragoon was really successful back on the PS1, if they had nurtured the brand, it could have become more than a FFVII clone. Not all of Nintendo's decisions are great, but for the most part, they know how to manage and grow the IP.
yep.
Than GAME OF THRONES??? absolutely not.
nowhere in the same universe as the above. Animated television generally pulls viewership below a million viewers an episode. Something like GOT is pulling 20 times as many viewers at minimum, and GOT was by far the biggest driver for HBO's subscription service.
You may be too young to remember, but the Disney Channel USED to be subscription based as HBO is, but the Mickey Mouse franchise along with Disney's then-current stable of exclusive movies wasn't enough to sustain it.
There is absolutely no way for Disney to use the Mickey Mouse IP to pull the numbers that something like Game of Thrones does, which is *why* Disney spent billions on the Marvel and Star Wars IP.
They were simply out of ideas.
I love all 3, but Nintendo is the only answer for me. Zelda, man. Zelda is pure magic. No other franchise excites me more. Not that big on Mario anymore, but the main games are still really great.
I really hope Insomniac makes more Ratchet & Clank games, that's an excellent Sony IP. And I really hope MS realizes what a great IP collection they actually own that is not only Halo, Gears or Forza. Voodoo Vince 2, where is it?
I really hope Insomniac makes more Ratchet & Clank games, that's an excellent Sony IP. And I really hope MS realizes what a great IP collection they actually own that is not only Halo, Gears or Forza. Voodoo Vince 2, where is it?
Even if you get REALLY reductive the other two have more genre variety
Nintendo IP same period:
Released:
Fire Emblem: Three Houses - RPG
Super Mario Maker 2 - Platformer
Yoshi's Crafted World - Platformer
New Super Mario U Deluxe - Platformer
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Fighting
Pokemon Let's Go! - RPG
Super Mario Party - Party/Board Game
Xenoblade Chronicles 2: The Golden Country - RPG
Mario Tennis Aces - Sports
Kirby: Star Allies - Platformer
Upcoming:
Astral Chain - Action/Adventure
Zelda: Link's Awakening - Action/Adventure
Luigi's Mansion 3 - Action/Adventure
Pokemon Sword/Shield - RPG
Animal Crossing: New Horizons - Sim
Microsoft:
Released:
Gears 5 - Action/Adventure
Crackdown 3 - Action/Adventure
Forza Horizon 4 - Racing
Sea of Thieves - Action/Adventure
Super Lucky's Tale - Platformer
Halo Wars 2 - RTS
Forza 7 - Racing
Upcoming:
Ori 2 - Platformer
Psychonauts 2 - Platformer
Halo Infinite - FPS
Like why is this viewers per ep of something the metric though. Mickey drives merch. Same with something with Disney Princesses, it's absolutely titanic seller and continues to push their older movies as well as vehicles.
Also GoT is over. 20mm were viewing episodes at it's peak. I don't think that's a great metric either as it doesn't measure longevity. I think once Winds of Winter comes out, there is no doubt it's going to sell gangbusters and it's going to do even better because the show exists. But above Mickey Mouse as an icon of pure sales? I dunno if I buy it.
Also GoT is over. 20mm were viewing episodes at it's peak. I don't think that's a great metric either as it doesn't measure longevity. I think once Winds of Winter comes out, there is no doubt it's going to sell gangbusters and it's going to do even better because the show exists. But above Mickey Mouse as an icon of pure sales? I dunno if I buy it.
I like Sony, but Nintendo and it's not even remotely close.
Maybe a little biased, but honestly in terms of IP, I always felt that Sega was the only console manufacturer with a bench that could even rival Nintendo's.
Maybe a little biased, but honestly in terms of IP, I always felt that Sega was the only console manufacturer with a bench that could even rival Nintendo's.
Sony to me. I keep picking Sony consoles each generation because they have the IPs i enjoy playing the most.
But nintendo is in business for much longer, is only natural they have a bigger amout of great IPs so the poll results are not surprizing. They are quality IPs too, just not for my tastes.
But nintendo is in business for much longer, is only natural they have a bigger amout of great IPs so the poll results are not surprizing. They are quality IPs too, just not for my tastes.
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it's impossible to know how much merchandise out of the ENTIRE disney merchandise stable Mickey specifically is driving because Disney does not break that out and never will, but I'd say at present it's not a lot, given that the Disney Princess, Star Wars, and Marvel IP are rolled into that. But the disney TOTAL retail merchandise revenue number is probably lower than you think:
TOTAL retail sales for *every property disney owns* in 2018 was 1.59 Billion. That includes everything Marvel and Star Wars produce. Mickey is a rounding error in comparison to those two. the 20 million people watching Game of Thrones in comparison were making HBO somewhere around 300 million dollars a month.
And this completely ignores GOT merchandise, of which there is quite a bit.
GOT is the more valuable franchise.
I have bad news for you, friend.
Is that because we're assuming every viewer had HBO explicitly for GOT?
And I question GOT staying power / merchandising into the future. I know it's a referenced source and not completely reliable, but they don't even mention merchandise in the Wikipedia media property breakdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
And I question GOT staying power / merchandising into the future. I know it's a referenced source and not completely reliable, but they don't even mention merchandise in the Wikipedia media property breakdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
I don't know how you can continue to ignore facts. You said MLB was a Sony IP. Major League Baseball is not a Sony intellectual property any more than any other licensed game. The license in no way shape or form belongs to Sony.
Sony has an incredible amount of great IP. MLB is not one of them. Period.
At some point you need to concede that Sony has number crunchers working internally that have a better handle on what makes money and what doesn't.
Why would Sony want to handle their properties like Nintendo? They steamrolled nintendo 2 out of the 3 console generations they went head to head, and the fourth is looking to be an easy win as well.
Is there any universe in which a better handled "Legend of Dragoon" gets the PS2 to sell more than the 155 million+ that it did? I can't see how.
Let me slow this down for you as much as possible because you seem to be struggling with it.
"MLB: The SHOW" is a Sony exclusive First Party IP. It can never be made by anyone else, can never be ported to another system, and is 100% sony intellectual property. MLB absolutely cannot license any other developer to make an "MLB: The Show" game, even though Sony licensed players, ballparks, and league logos to make that game Sony owns that IP.
Similarly, Sony owns the MLB 98/etc IP that predated "The Show" and the "MLB" Pennant Race" IP. No one else can ever make those games, they cannot be ported, Sony owns them entirely.
It isn't any different than Driveclub. That game was made by licensing cars from auto manufacturers that Sony does not own, but the game is a first party Sony exclusive IP that was developed by them and can never appear anywhere else.
me writing "MLB" was a shortcut for the several different names that sony produced a first party MLB IP under. Is this clear?
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The OP didn't ask for the most valuable OP, they asked for the most stable. Considering the Pac-Man series has been getting releases for 39 years now, that's obviously the more stable of the two. Considering Fortnite is already showing signs of declining profits, I'm not sure stable would be the word I'd use for it.
Microsoft is sitting on a mountain of IP. I think only EA underuses their own stuff worse.
These are just some of what they aren't working on
Perfect Dark
Jet Force
Blast Corps
Conker
Banjo
Shadowrun
Mechwarrior
Crimson Skies
Blood wake
Never mind that the halo universe could easily lend itself to flight sims and rainbow six style tactical shooters. There's a bevy of ips ready to be exploited.
These are just some of what they aren't working on
Perfect Dark
Jet Force
Blast Corps
Conker
Banjo
Shadowrun
Mechwarrior
Crimson Skies
Blood wake
Never mind that the halo universe could easily lend itself to flight sims and rainbow six style tactical shooters. There's a bevy of ips ready to be exploited.