Who else prefers the light saber fights of the Star Wars Prequals ?

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,914
Tampa, Fl
y'all irritate my soul posting this gif as if it's the only part of this entire fight.




this is high level lightsaber dueling.
no room for error, no time for thinking, no time for waiting. they're so skilled they know each others attacks before they even happen.
You know this duel is probably one of the best in the Prequel Trilogy. But it suffers from bloat. It keeps moving from location to location trying to one up the action each time. It would have worked so much better if it ended in the second hallway with Vader being knocked over the rails into the lava shore at the end.

But it goes so long that the energy of the duel just dies. You go from Hype to sigh. I really like a lot of Revenge of the Sith but even it theaters I was "okay end" with this duel by the time they are on the floating platforms.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,679
y'all irritate my soul posting this gif as if it's the only part of this entire fight.




this is high level lightsaber dueling.
no room for error, no time for thinking, no time for waiting. they're so skilled they know each others attacks before they even happen.
Both of those still waste a lot of time on needless flourishes in the name of looking cool. They are visually sloppy fights, and don't disregard the other gif that clearly shows what's wrong with the fight choreography in what is, again, supposed to be the centerpiece fight for an entire trilogy.
 

Wolfe

Member
Sep 3, 2018
263
His injury is a non-factor.
You're a non-factor.

Also scratching my head at anyone solely focusing on the lightsaber "duel" in A New Hope, is that all you have for your arguments? I mean it's obvious no one is talking about that fight when they reference the OT duels and as the first movie in the series (and given the actors/costumes involved) I'm not really surprised at how it turned out in the end. Yeah that fight is pretty weak, no one is referencing it.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,679
You're a non-factor.

Also scratching my head at anyone solely focusing on the lightsaber "duel" in A New Hope, is that all you have for your arguments? I mean it's obvious no one is talking about that fight when they reference the OT duels and as the first movie in the series (and given the actors/costumes involved) I'm not really surprised at how it turned out in the end. Yeah that fight is pretty weak, no one is referencing it.
And, again, even though it is a very weak fight itself, it still does an incredible job of storytelling.
 

Wolfe

Member
Sep 3, 2018
263
Yeah I just meant from a choreography/visual standpoint, I agree with you on that.
 

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,447
Both of those still waste a lot of time on needless flourishes in the name of looking cool. They are visually sloppy fights, and don't disregard the other gif that clearly shows what's wrong with the fight choreography in what is, again, supposed to be the centerpiece fight for an entire trilogy.
It's not that im disregarding it, it's that it's LITERALLY the only thing brought up when it comes to this fight. Yes it is dragged out, yes there are random unecessary moments but there are still good moments in it.

You also have to consider things like weight distribution with their swings, the lightsabers deflecting off of each other and the speed they're fighting at. So yes, it's going to look a bit ridiculous but that's also part of the charm.
 

iGeodude

Member
Oct 27, 2017
582
Im the opposite, I feel none in that gif. Slow and sad.
I would love the good characters of the OT and the lightsaber battles of the PT
This is the closest you're ever going to get....unless Disney remakes all the movies many years from now.
 

Flousn

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,251
y'all irritate my soul posting this gif as if it's the only part of this entire fight.




this is high level lightsaber dueling.
no room for error, no time for thinking, no time for waiting. they're so skilled they know each others attacks before they even happen.
Sorry but the second gif is just as goofy as the famous spinning one. Just count how often they just aim at each other's lightsabers instead of aiming for the opponent.
I enjoy the final duel RotS is okay but it's still extremely flashy to a fault and full of superficial flourishes that look borderline like weightless flailing around.

Also, I will never understand why they needed to give them both their blue lightsabers. It's just a visual mess at times.
 

haradaku7

Member
May 28, 2018
819
The prequels are like watching anime for the fight scenes. I'd take returns luke vs vader over any fight in the prequels.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,063
In the context of them being basically super soldiers who are absurdly fast and can sorta kinda maybe see the future, and they are swinging around weightless wiffle bats, it makes sense. They know they don't have any openings so they swing to where they know the others sword is going to be.

It doesn't make it good or interesting to watch, but I understand.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,530
And then you get this shit in the Last Jedi




Are the red guards immediately gassed after one swing?

Then you get this shit.


What the fuck is this guy doing?
I love that we're STILL using gifs from the bootleg of TLJ. Movie's been out on 4K Blu Ray for nearly two years and every "LOOK HOW TERRIBLE THIS AWESOME SHIT LOOKS!" gif in these threads has the back of some dude's head in the foreground.
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
1,258
I also prefer the prequel fights.

Although that one part of the Anakin v Obi-Wan fight where they twirl the sabers behind their backs always annoys me.

Darth Maul v Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon though? Amazing.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,614
I think the prequels finally got it right with the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight. There's the one pointless twirling part that everyone makes fun of, but the rest is really good.

OH look, even the OT has some stupid spins and moves that made no sense even with the weightiness

The TLJ fight though, was fucking dumb. Expert guards reduced to looking like idiots against a bunch of amateurs
 

BatterseaPS

The Fallen
Jun 19, 2018
385
Fencing swords are piercing, not slicing. Entirely different body mechnics involved. And fencers have more weight to their movement anyway.
Two types of fencing (foil and epee) are thrusting weapons. The third (sabre) is a cutting weapon. Its weight is negligible and we mainly use our fingers to manipulate it, then wrist, and then most rarely the arm.

And, no, none of these movies have anything that would resemble how you’d actually use a dangerous weapon. Fencing is a sport, so there's no danger involved which obviously changes things a lot. However, if there were actual danger (like merely touching the blade could maim you) then fights would be even more careful, with a lot more pacing and distance work than touching blades together. Swordsmanship is largely in the legs and in the positioning, with comparatively little to do with the actual bladework. That's why when it comes to what a lightsaber duel would theoretically look like, Japanese movies are probably the closest.

You can also see a more "realistic" version of lightsaber fighting (not fencing) here:


Unlike Olympic fencers, these fighters are much more hesitant to get hit, and you can see that there's a lot of work with spacing, timing, and then usually only one limited engagement with the weapon leading to an almost immediate hit. Unlike in the movies, blocking is DIFFICULT, even for people who have been fencing for 20+ years. And the lighter the weapon, the easier it is to feint, and the harder it is to block. So a massless blade that can fly around willy-nilly would be nigh impossible to block with any degree of confidence.

TL;DR: real sword-fighting with lightweight weapons would be less Zorro and more Zatoichi.

EDIT: The big caveat, of course, is that using the force might give you prescient power. This is a fictional, mystical world, so once you throw that in, you can rationalize all kinds of fighting styles.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
17,831
Miami, FL
This is the closest you're ever going to get....unless Disney remakes all the movies many years from now.
Entertaining for a different movie, perhaps. Wrong tone, tenor and pace for E4. I like the ideas. But the contrast in scenes makes me appreciate the OG even more.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,914
Tampa, Fl
So I went to YouTube and watched three sets of videos.

Anakin v Obi-wan

And Vader v Obi-wan Reimagined

Vader v Obi-wan Original


I can now say this. Anakin v Obi-wan is awesome... And with its constant changing of settings it loses all momentum once it progress to the climbing scene. Obi-wan claiming that he has the high ground however seems like a last attempt to save his friend.

The Reimagined New Hope fight is fun, but misses the point of Obi-wan's sacrifice. He wasn't every trying to win. Obi-wan, was choosing to die at his apprentice's hand. No dance. No fancy lightsaber moments, he will die so Luke will live.

Remember that Anakin is sure at this point that Padme died Before giving birth.

After watching all three.

Revenge of the Sith is too long and should have end before the fight over the Basalt lava.

The Reimagined fight is Pequel fun Rebels showed that Obi-wan was past that idea.

The original needed just a bit more pathos, but only because who Vader turned out to be. George Lucas was doing a Hero's Journey and a Kurosawa film at the same time.

If 1-3 were first Vader would be lacking. As a friend of mine once said "When my kid watched them in order, the biggest shock was at Obi Wan Kenobi died easily. They did not understand why 'I am your father' was so amazing."
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,032
That’s barely even a duel so I don’t see how it compares. As a duel I don’t know how anyone can seriously say that’s even close to any of the good duels in the movies. Saying it’s a good scene is one thing, but a good fight it is not.
 
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Surface of Me

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,726
Nope. Weightless garbage.

Very little emotion or depth to them, over-choreographed and nonsensical even if the choreography is nice sometimes.

For all the problems the new trilogy has I think one of the things it does well is an evolution of the light saber combat seen in the original trilogy. It is just a little more flashy and a little more interesting, but still has a weight and feeling to it, it actually seems like emotion is being expressed.
I cant imagine a saber made of light being very heavy.
 

4 Get!

Member
Apr 8, 2019
84
That’s barely even a duel so I don’t see how it compares.
That's kind of the point. There's more time spent measuring your opponent, their stance, which side they will strike from first, and then figuring out how to retaliate with a swift blow or two in the right places in order to end the fight. It's the tension of 'who will swing first' similar to a UFC, MMA, or boxing match.

This is what it should be, samurai style with two highly trained swordsmen and very deadly weapons. When the fight drags on for ages it appears more and more unrealistic and in turn the fighters appear more and more amateur.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
9,676
Tbilisi, Georgia
Edgy opinion time:

This is probably the fifth time I've seen this exact same thread when counting it's Old Place iterations and once again people are arguing over which of these mediocre lightstick fight scenes are better while a random Asian martial arts movie has better fight scenes on an entire movie budget equivalent to what it took to bring Jar Jar Binks to life for one minute.
 

Neolombax

Member
Nov 28, 2018
127
Prequels had better choreography, its more flashy. I used to think it was better too when I was younger. These days I prefer the original trilogy lightsaber fights. They had more drama, more intention.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,194
Edgy opinion time:

This is probably the fifth time I've seen this exact same thread when counting it's Old Place iterations and once again people are arguing over which of these mediocre lightstick fight scenes are better while a random Asian martial arts movie has better fight scenes on an entire movie budget equivalent to what it took to bring Jar Jar Binks to life for one minute.
K
 

Bad Vibes Dio

The Fallen
Apr 13, 2018
6,618
The prequel fights are what I imagine would look like for the characters who just dump all their ability points into Dexterity and Speed. Most of it is all flash, no substance.

Thankfully Anakin grew out of that non-sense and went for a strength build like a true champion. That Dex and Speed don't mean shit to a good counter attack. Maul is the only exception tho since that motherfucker can leap across the map while using his saber both as an attack and a shield at the same time, he is an actual finesse god.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,359
USA
For me saber fights have always been a means to tell a story. Give me the Obi/Vader confrontation in ANH over the overly produced/fluffy/shallow duels in the PT any day of the week. That's not to say the choreography couldn't have been improved/spruced up to look a little more interesting in that confrontation (ie maybe tighter editing, Obi-Wan not doing the world's slowest spin attack), but it's good enough for the narrative/messaging.

All three of those major confrontations (ANH/ESB/ROTJ) are far more memorable and meaningful than any of the overlong fights we see in the PT.. because of what they mean for the characters involved. Not to say they're all just bad (EP1-3), but I don't really remember them (the soundtrack is what sticks in my mind more than anything else). The only PT duel that even means anything significant is the Anakin/Obi duel in ROTS, and even that is bogged down, filled with extreme absurdities and way, way too long. When in all honesty, that should have been, hands down, the best saber duel in SW history. The potential was certainly there for it.

The ST follows in a similar vein (established in the OT) and provides significant character defining moments alongside/interwoven in its combat.

In terms of actual choreography, I greatly prefer what we see in the OT/ST. They feel more grounded and weighty, like each swing could be lethal. However, TROS is the first time, outside of the PT, that we've seen two powerful Jedi/Sith fighting in their prime, so I like that the fight feels a little closer to the speed and swiftness of the PT without jumping off the deep end.

There is nothing more boring than characters literally standing with their feet planted right in front of each other, swinging away at lightspeed. Say "they're predicting each other's moves" or "they're so advanced in their abilities", or whatever else, but this is not what I imagined a duel between a Jedi and Sith to be, before we were shown. It just looks fuckin' dumb, full stop.. no one fights like this. There are a number of ways to display their expertise/control of the Force while still feeling grounded/believable.

I look forward to TROS likely picking and choosing pieces from the OT and PT to strike a meaningful balance between flash and memorable character development/narrative revelations.
 
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Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,583
Overchoreographed flip flop without meaning, first seeing Maul vs Obiwan I thought it was cool, but it really soured on me over time.

The often criticized ANH fight between Vader and Obiwan actually gained my respect over time, it's the total opposite here.
 

PshycoNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,678
Los Angeles
it's worse in the prequels. just twirling light sabers and they're allergic to aiming for body parts; it's always striking to hit the other person's lightsaber even when there's a clear opening for cutting a limb off or whatever.
Funny you say that... cause there is actually someone on YT who has studied swordsmanship and combat and he gives a fairly detailed account on the Obi-wan vs Anakin fight in RotS and he came away with a very different estimation than you did.


And while it's hard criticize lightsaber fights in TFA, as theres really only one short one, TLJ has a fight that is literally plagued with what you're talking about. Flourishing lightsabers for no reason. Aiming for weapons instead of body parts. Just all around missed timing. Great idea, bad execution.
 

Rand a. Thor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,486
Greece
Yeah the prequel fights were awesome. I dunno if this was intended, but it makes total sense for the to be flashy with wide, flourishing sweeps and little to no contact. The fights felt like a psychological battle of wits and concentration, trying to distract the opponent as much as possible to gain one decisive blow in at the right time. The times when the lightsabers do make contact the opponent has failed as the Jedi or Sith has correctly predicted that blow, and then they repeat the process. Meanwhile the sequel and original trilogy battles have none of that and feel more physical because the art has been lost. Obi Wan and Vader depict this in a much more subtle way, however these two are basically two sides of the same coin so at that that point obviously their duel would be one or two swipes with a quick defeat for the loser. If it's not intended to be like this then I dunno what the hell they were thinking of, but I like my head canon and sticking with that.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,766
And then you get this shit in the Last Jedi




Are the red guards immediately gassed after one swing?

Then you get this shit.


What the fuck is this guy doing?
Utter tripe, anybody defending ST and attacking PT for meaningless twirls and light saber dancing has no leg to stand on. I mean you literally have the bad guys TRYING to avoid both of the Jedi's, look at that swing and miss on the last gif LOL!!!!!

This is fun and awesome to watch though.
So you agree that the same is acceptable for people regarding PT ?
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,766
An enormous issue with the prequels is that most of the villains (Maul, Dooku, Grievous) are just so terrible so it's almost impossible to care about fighting them. At the very least Sheev is really entertaining in the Yoda fight and Ani/Obi has some angle (master v apprentice, friend v friend etc etc.)

The sequel trilogy has already trounced them.
There is no stand out villains in ST, just Ren, who's as emo if not more so then Anakin. Nothing in ST matches the few minutes we got of Darth Maul. Dooku at least had some substance to his motivations about the Jedi which made him interesting.
 

Ruisu

Member
Aug 1, 2019
88
Cool lightsabers are good, they used to be slow but now fast is better, The Force Awakens missed the mark on overcorrecting to make things slower, TLJ brought more hype back and outside of outright fails in coreography, their head was in the right place and I wish for more elaborate lightsaber duels like that and the prequels.
AND more than that, we need more action like the original 2D Clone Wars cartoon in the movies, that was the good shit and what all star wars should strive for.

But in episode 9 we're back to JJ as director so he'll probably dial it back again so eh.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,133
Montreal
you've got WWE Wrestling matches with more fight psychology than any of the prequel duels

the lightshow spinnies for show off little fight suspense

heck, rookie Rey in TFA's duel against Kylo in the snow had more fight psychology that any of the prequel duels,