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Why button mashing doesn't work (in fighting games) - Core-A Gaming Analysis
- Thread starter Omar310
- Start date
The video actually answers that question early and most of it is about explaining what all these fighting game terms are.
I finally know wtf Maximilian was talking about when he goes on about + or - frame data, and I finally know what a Frame Trap is.
And Oki.
And Mix-up.
I finally know wtf Maximilian was talking about when he goes on about + or - frame data, and I finally know what a Frame Trap is.
And Oki.
And Mix-up.
I think that part is more important than the main topic of the video lol
Core-A gaming is a great channel. I don't play fighting games but I do watch them so I've found his content really useful.
MK11 does a good job of explaining these and more in its tutorial.
Pretty much. I don't give a shit about learning moves and just button mash my way to victory when playing causally.
Mashing has its place because it's the point of access for people who have no idea what theyre doing. Particularly people who are walking by an arcade machine only going to spend $0.50.
Some games mash better than others. I would attribute a large part of tekken, soul caliber, and marvels popularity is due to those games mashing very well. When someone mashes furiously, interesting things tend to happen.
take on the other hand the worst matching game I could think of. Virtua fighter 2. You can mash and mash and mash and nothing interesting really happens. You might even mash your way right out of the ring.
Some games mash better than others. I would attribute a large part of tekken, soul caliber, and marvels popularity is due to those games mashing very well. When someone mashes furiously, interesting things tend to happen.
take on the other hand the worst matching game I could think of. Virtua fighter 2. You can mash and mash and mash and nothing interesting really happens. You might even mash your way right out of the ring.
That Gandhi match is still so damn hilarious.
I recommend anybody trying to get into fighting games to watch this.
I recommend anybody trying to get into fighting games to watch this.
There's always that one casual player who actually blocks and punishes, though, and everyone else hates him/her :P
Great video. Awhile back I was watching tournaments and trying to figure out what all that crap I kept hearing them say meant and it wasn't that easy to find anything.
Eventually I found what I needed, but nothing explained things as well as this video. And it's all in one place and not spread around different sites/videos. Anybody interested in getting into fighting games, even just on a casual level, should watch this.
The funny thing is, all this stuff is pretty obvious after the fact. But I think a lot of people, myself included, aren't able to really internalize this stuff without actually taking the time to watch it laid out like this.
Eventually I found what I needed, but nothing explained things as well as this video. And it's all in one place and not spread around different sites/videos. Anybody interested in getting into fighting games, even just on a casual level, should watch this.
The funny thing is, all this stuff is pretty obvious after the fact. But I think a lot of people, myself included, aren't able to really internalize this stuff without actually taking the time to watch it laid out like this.
Depends on what your definition of "casual" is. The average player is usually considered casual, and even intermediate players can be casuals. Seems like what you all are talking about are scrubs. And scrubs can "get you" at least one round with scrub tactics, since if you haven't played them before (or seen them play), you probably won't expect them to be that terrible. There's nothing worse than trying setups that fail all of the time, because the person you're playing against doesn't know what they should be doing.
Wake-up dragon punch? Check.
Wake-up ultra? Check.
Mashing throw? Check.
edit: LMAO@Gandhi.
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It doesn't work for 2D fighters such as Street Fighter or Blazblue (all you'll do is whiff air), but in 3D fighters such as Tekken or Soul Calibur, button mashing can let you win against a below average experienced opponent.
Yeah most of the concepts are not hard to grasp when laid out clearly like this. And they're especially not unique to fighting games either.
Like Footsies is just the skill of keeping distances, and everyone uses whiff punish not dissimilar to baiting out attacks.
I can see frame data studying to be a huge hurdle for people
Like Footsies is just the skill of keeping distances, and everyone uses whiff punish not dissimilar to baiting out attacks.
I can see frame data studying to be a huge hurdle for people
There are gradations of 'casual'. If you're just playing against AI, then yeah, fine, whatever. But games like Tekken are relentlessly punishing for beginners because the movement skill floor is so high.
The bigger concern is that most fighters still don't surface the basic mechanics in the video. I've said it before and I'll say it again, meaties (at least in 2D games) are hands-down the biggest issue for newbies, and most of them have no idea what meaties are.
I don't get it.
Anyway, there are a number of reasons I don't play fighting games, but these technical breakdowns are fascinating. Ironically, not having the patience to learn this stuff is one of the big reasons I don't play fighting games.
Too many people on here are taking the title too literally. It's just a thinly-veiled excuse to talk fighting game basics.
This is one of the realest comments I've seen on here. Those people are definitely bandwagoners who struggle to cancel low forward into a special, let alone a super. But nah, best SF bro, see my chun.
This is one of the realest comments I've seen on here. Those people are definitely bandwagoners who struggle to cancel low forward into a special, let alone a super. But nah, best SF bro, see my chun.
Gandhi is a Street Fighter legend.
Ultra David and James Chen dedicated an entire episode to that match.
Ultra David and James Chen dedicated an entire episode to that match.
Its the Python Problem again.
There's this smorgasbord of INFORMATION. Long dry lists of facts, data, and figures to get...all at once?
That's what they tell themselves instead of getting a knife and fork and digesting the WHY behind it all.
All I'm saying is be like Marn and just gut instinct it if you can't be ProblemX and live in the lab but know to know.
Every time I watch this it's a mixture of histerical laughter and sadness.
The ULTRA! from out of nowhere gets me every time.
Learning to drift in Mario Kart isn't necessary casually either, but that goes without saying. Its not about a casual level because you never need to master mechanics to mess about in multiplayer games.
Its the Python Problem again.
There's this smorgasbord of INFORMATION. Long dry lists of facts, data, and figures to get...all at once?
That's what they tell themselves instead of getting a knife and fork and digesting the WHY behind it all.
All I'm saying is be like Marn and just gut instinct it if you can't be ProblemX and live in the lab but know to know.
It's like thinking you need to study all of a gun's bullet drop before you play an FPS. Although I wondering if too many fighting gamers in an attempt to prop up their games is responsible for this.
Personally as someone who is trying to get into fighting games, I find the execution of moves to be a greater hurdle. Specifically, to get good enough to reliably pull them off in a real fight.
Many of us were playing fighting games for 10+ years before frame data started to become publicly available (and you still had to know where to look). Having all the numbers on a web page to look at certainly accelerates the rate you can learn, but it's not essential. You can always learn the same way we did in the arcade: lots of experimentation and practice. Even that method is much easier these days, since you can just test things in training mode. Even that sounds boring? Then just get in there and play matches while concentrating on learning rather than winning.
Liked his work until he uploaded a video on salt, trying to compare social justice to stripping out individuality from fighting game characters for balance. Typical neoconservative talking points.
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Those of you that are talking about button mashing being fine at a casual level are completely missing the point of the video to the point where I'm wondering if you bothered watching it before commenting in here.
It's a trojan horse video to teach universal fighting game fundamentals.
It's a trojan horse video to teach universal fighting game fundamentals.
no thanks, I'll just press buttons randomly. I'm sure something will lead me to victory.
I keep seeing people say this, but what fighting game mechanics are we talking about that Monster Hunter and Dark Souls have?
People get too hung up on frame data as some sort of incredibly esoteric mechanic unique to fighters. The only thing that frame data does is allow you to take a shortcut towards understanding what will work and what will not ahead of time rather than having to lab out all of the possibilities.
If you have ever punished an unsafe move in a fighter, you are already utilising frame data - you just haven't realised it.
I think it's fair to say that those games have whiff punishing, startup/recovery animations, combos and even some rudimentary meaty mechanics in terms of Dark Souls' roll catches.
Monster Hunter also have different weapons some with unique mechanics specific to it, not unlike different anime fighting game characters.
Long Sword and Dual Blades have meters, Great Swords and Hammers have charged mechanics, Insect Glaives have buffs etc.
Long Sword and Dual Blades have meters, Great Swords and Hammers have charged mechanics, Insect Glaives have buffs etc.
Yeah if you're mashing buttons against a button masher you can figure out how to mash buttons better.