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Why Some Ethnic Groups Wont Want The Vaccine
- Thread starter Deleted member 9306
- Start date
ah so this is you
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I think everyone gets it, but some posters just really want an excuse to say racist shit.
Like, it literally doesnt matter if you think it's a conspiracy or not. The question is how do we build trust in a vaccine despite centuries of inequality and harmful practices. And the answer is not calling people distrustful of the system stupid, nor is it a bunch of white people saying "this time it's actually good, trust us"
I mean, at a first glance, the solution seems obvious. To have well known black people take the vaccine and to talk about this issue.
Obama (in that thread about U.S. Presidents taking the vaccine on camera or something), Michelle, and other celebrities like Michael B Jordan, Jay-Z and Beyonce, Lebron James, etc... taking the vaccine sounds like a good way to convince some people.
But what about those who are "far too gone" that will say that "they can get it because even though they're black, they're rich", or those who don't trust someone like Obama (I dont know what's the general opinion of Obama from a PoC point of view).
It's a very tricky situation.
It comes to a point where when you become too irrational, that no amount of reason will bring you back. Years and years of having a country breaking your trust will do that to you.
Obama (in that thread about U.S. Presidents taking the vaccine on camera or something), Michelle, and other celebrities like Michael B Jordan, Jay-Z and Beyonce, Lebron James, etc... taking the vaccine sounds like a good way to convince some people.
But what about those who are "far too gone" that will say that "they can get it because even though they're black, they're rich", or those who don't trust someone like Obama (I dont know what's the general opinion of Obama from a PoC point of view).
It's a very tricky situation.
It comes to a point where when you become too irrational, that no amount of reason will bring you back. Years and years of having a country breaking your trust will do that to you.
"It's different this time I swear" is a hard sell even when it's true.
Yeah, well put. I don't think people like Letitia are who the thread in the OP is talking about, at least not directly. The same conditions that created rational distrust of medicine are definitely part of what allowed hoteppery to flourish, but at this point I think we can just call out hoteppery for the clown shit it is without also giving the white establishment a pass.
oh goddddd fuck this shit! ill give it a read when im in a better mental state i guess
How you gon act like a Cracka then be appalled you got called a Cracka
thats another thing Crackas tend to do
The solution is to stop acting like a Cracka and nobody will call you a Cracka
OP
OP
Word. Like another poster said a LOT of these people just came here to drag Black people.
I can't believe there are still people calling these fears unfounded when we had articles like this:
Covid-19 vaccine trials have been slow to recruit Black and Latino people -- and that could delay a vaccine - CNN
Covid-19 vaccine trials have been slow to recruit Black and Latino people -- and that could delay a vaccine - CNN
Karen/anti-vaxxers have poisoned the well for any reasonable dialogue. I know when I see distrust towards taking the vaccine (no matter where that skepticism is coming from), my own knee-jerk response is one of anxiousness, incredulity, and anger. Covid's running wild cause people seem to have stopped giving a fuck, and it's already a struggle to get those around me who hold up stupid twitter posts (not referring to OP) as gospel to listen. I def hope the leaders and everyday people in communities all over are able to persuade the wary that taking the vaccine is the right thing to do. For their sake and the people they care about.
From the OP
She's listing the solution here. Why are you pretending she isn't?
I completely understand and I think the outrage about certain communities being skeptical is annoying. There is a big difference between anti-vaccination and skepticism towards being part of the first batch receiving the vaccine.
Even I have slight irrational worries about being part of the first batch(though I don't actually expect it to be available for me right away since high risk go first) despite literally no reason to. A community that has been historically used to test things makes perfect sense to have worries.
Let people who understand and are equipped to have this conversation with these communities handle it instead of rushing to shame them.
Even I have slight irrational worries about being part of the first batch(though I don't actually expect it to be available for me right away since high risk go first) despite literally no reason to. A community that has been historically used to test things makes perfect sense to have worries.
Let people who understand and are equipped to have this conversation with these communities handle it instead of rushing to shame them.
I specifically broke down their line of thinking in this thread and how it's erroneous at best, and disingenuous at worst. They seem to be okay with their logical leaps, it's best not to engage.
You think sending one type of product to a neighborhood that is predominantly black versus sending a different product to a neighborhood that is predominantly white is some Herculean task? Behavior and policies like this happen all the time for things far less important. Now I don't think for a moment that's what's going to happen with the vaccine, but you thinking you're spouting some strong argument here just shows how ignorant you are.
Hey now, some of us calling their posts stupid are white. 😛
edit: aaaand banned
Basically, I feel this thread and the Letitia thread are two sides of the same coin, and both are necessary for a full multi-dimensional view of the topic. They may look like two different threads but it really is the conversational equivalent of a double helix like a DNA strand.
The guy who created the Heimlich Maneuver was doing trials to see if you can cure AIDS with malaria in Ethiopia and that was in 2005!
I'm not knowledgeable enough about the main topics being discussed in this thread to have anything really worthwhile to add, outside of one thing.
Before that, though, I entirely agree with the first post - it's not good enough to write off people's concerns, especially when there's history of such wrongdoing to back them up. They have to be discussed and overcome through dialogue, and that dialogue needs to come from the right people, so that there's actual trust. Shouting down possibly legitimate, deep-rooted concerns isn't going to help anyone.
Despite that, there is a point regarding the AstraZeneca vaccine. On the basis of the three we know much about right now, as this is the only one that doesn't need a 'cold chain' of dry ice and minus 20-70 degrees to distribute, it is likely to be the one (pending approval) that is used most in countries such as Africa, India etc. It's not the effectiveness that will be the issue there, but the fact that it'll be difficult to impossible to distribute Pfizer / Moderna's vaccines in a timely fashion in such areas, given the current state of things.
Hopefully one of the other vaccines we're still awaiting results for and that can also be distributed similarly to AZ's one (I believe Novavax, J&J and others fall in this category) will have better effectiveness, and will be able to step in accordingly. Or that the AZ one will actually show the half-dose / full-dose regimen does work better after all. Or that there's a solution with the Pfizer / Moderna vaccines that enables them to get distributed more easily in such countries. Hopefully.
Like most things, which is why nuance exists. Either/or thinking is simple, and not at all equipped to deal with the sociopolitical complexities that must be accounted for when dealing with a significant problem like covid19 vaccine deployment. Part of that is identifying the injustices which lead to the current issue of mistrust, and how to heal that wound in confidence so that we can bridge that gap for the sake of these communities' health, and for the sake of us all.
Lmao crimson a whole ass troll. But many people think like him so it's best not to engage. No discussion over a message board will change his mind.
I've been saying the best solution is having Biden come with a complete media strategy to re-educate the public.
I have a feeling he will do this but it needs to be broad and extremely expansive. We need an army of Black Medical Professionals to do media tours in our community and speak to people to reestablish the trust
No citizen or undocumented should be paying for this vaccine. Not a cent. Not a penny. If you try to make people pay, you're only creating an even bigger roadblock to the roll out
Biden will also have to assure that the vaccine will rollout to underfunded communities just the same way it will rollout to upper class ones.
This is going to be a mess but I they really want shit changed, they have to work for it
I have a feeling he will do this but it needs to be broad and extremely expansive. We need an army of Black Medical Professionals to do media tours in our community and speak to people to reestablish the trust
No citizen or undocumented should be paying for this vaccine. Not a cent. Not a penny. If you try to make people pay, you're only creating an even bigger roadblock to the roll out
Biden will also have to assure that the vaccine will rollout to underfunded communities just the same way it will rollout to upper class ones.
This is going to be a mess but I they really want shit changed, they have to work for it
By the time Trump is done shitting on the carpet 40 or so days from now, Biden will have a lot of re-education and cleaning up to do.
American really picked the wrong president at the wrong fucking time. Hopefully Joe and his official selections can re-gain the trust of the public on these matters.
I disagree. One is refusing vaccinations and the existance of them all together. The other side is for taking vaccines but having worries about being in the first groups to take it. Which means they will have no problem taking it after initial roll outs begin.
Eh I disagree because the motivations between both threads are different. Letitia is a religious nut and most likely is completely anti-vaccination. This thread is the appropriate discussion starter for this issue.
Dude, did Ben Shapiro write this?
If a system continually fucked you over, and they told you "This time I'll help you for real", would you just say "Okay. I believe you", or would you think that, if they wanted to, they could find a way to do it again? For a lot of black people, I imagine it's fear and it's mistrust. Those aren't the kinds of things that people just decide to get over through logic like this without seeing change and seeing the process work as intended.
HAHA.
But yeah, even forgetting about the race issue as various Covid vaccines become the norm I don't think anyone has faith that the rollout in California is going to be different than in Arkansas even when it comes to basic operational infrastructure. So it's weird to see the "What? American's getting treated differently? UNHEARD OF". I get the pushback against anti-vaxxers since it's gone mainstream, but lol, people are acting like the basic disparities like pharmacy deserts you have in rural areas and urban hoods will magically disappear as bezos personally delivers the most effective vaccine despite the cost to each and every American, lol.
This is the real worry to me. Worrying about black people being unwilling to take a vaccine is irrelevant when they don't have timely/reasonable access to it in the first place. That feels like a much more pertinent worry for society.
The amount of controversy coming when it comes to equitable rollout will be immense.
The freakout about giving COVID vaccines to prisoners has already begun
Jails and prisons are virus hot spots, but politics could slow efforts to inoculate their residents.
www.motherjones.com
This is so fucking wild. Your first post isn't even hard to comprehend, and yet some people in this thread (not all), popped in just to drag black folks and poc without actually even reading what the thread was fucking about.
Fucking gross.
This ends up being 100% true.
This is the real worry to me. Worrying about black people being unwilling to take a vaccine is irrelevant when they don't have timely/reasonable access to it in the first place. That feels like a much more pertinent worry for society.
The amount of controversy coming when it comes to equitable rollout will be immense.
The freakout about giving COVID vaccines to prisoners has already begun
Jails and prisons are virus hot spots, but politics could slow efforts to inoculate their residents.
I hate this fucking country
Yep this subject requires empathy and nuance. Something most of the world does not hold in high regard for black people.
Biden has so fucking much on his plate, he's guaranteed to fail outside of his own volition
This is the real worry to me. Worrying about black people being unwilling to take a vaccine is irrelevant when they don't have timely/reasonable access to it in the first place. That feels like a much more pertinent worry for society.
The amount of controversy coming when it comes to equitable rollout will be immense.
The freakout about giving COVID vaccines to prisoners has already begun
Jails and prisons are virus hot spots, but politics could slow efforts to inoculate their residents.
Yup, we gonna have a big issue with Republican states, they gonna kill us off by not offering fair rollout
Yep, I've seen this topic brewing among some people I follow.
Don't know the solution, it seems like it would go away with more people taking the vaccine over time. But if we want all people to buy in to it immediately, including some minority groups who have actually been subjects to unauthorized human testing, well, it seems like you'd have to find a way to establish trust that he establishment won't fuck people over, and well...
Don't know the solution, it seems like it would go away with more people taking the vaccine over time. But if we want all people to buy in to it immediately, including some minority groups who have actually been subjects to unauthorized human testing, well, it seems like you'd have to find a way to establish trust that he establishment won't fuck people over, and well...
Hoteps are nothing but goofy charlatans.
I assumed there'd be some skepticism in our community but it didn't hit me till this thread all the fuckery that hoteps can spread online.
I assumed there'd be some skepticism in our community but it didn't hit me till this thread all the fuckery that hoteps can spread online.
Comparing black people to "white MAGA types" lmao holy shit. Go say this to a black person in real life and see what happens. What an ignorant post.
It is related to the problem. You're the one being irrational.
What part of" people are influenced by their racial biases and as a result bring more harm to black folk disproportionally than white folk" do you not understand?
You really lack the ability to think things through.
Trust isn't only about hard data. Trust is about exposing yourself to another human being. A doctor who is careless can complicate your surgery. A doctor who is careless can expose you to diseases while treating you. When you or I trust a doctor, we trust them to not be careless with our health.
These vaccines are being rushed to market so you have to wonder what corners were cut and if there are complications from the treatments that will be missed because the testing had to be rushed. Considering the past problems with medicine leading to more deaths and problems for American black folk than white folk it wouldn't be surprising if the corners cut negatively hurt the minority members of the population more than the majority.
That said, despite the fact the medical outcomes will most likely be unfair everyone is better off taking a vaccine that works reasonably well rather than taking nothing at all.
There are two thing that need to be done so people feel more comfortable with taking the vaccines . The first is simply communicating thoughtfully and sincerely the benefits of taking the vaccine. Communication was key in getting people refusing to wear masks for influenza to wear them a year later into that debacle. Communication is just as important now and you have to be informative instead of fearmongering or acting like an asshole like CrimsonNocturne here.
The second thing that the government should make our public healthcare more comprehensive. Vaccines should be distributed more fairly and post vaccination monitoring and care should be a thing to help people feel more assured that others are looking out for them. Show that you fucking care instead of acting like an asshole.
Part of the issue is a deficiency of language. Prior to COVID, we had antivax and provax. There was no mainstream word or term for "pro vax but anti medical racism". Medical racism falls into the umbrella of social justice which is too broad a term but it needs its own mainstream term like "medical justice" or "medical apartheid" because without a new way to talk about it, the general public will default to comfortable language which means anti/pro vax.
This reckoning was a long time coming and it's unfortunate that we have to deal with it at the same time as another emergency but perhaps it will be a net good in the long run that COVID forced us to talk about it openly now.
On the topic of increasing trust. Here is a crazy and likely unenforceable idea I had just to open discussion. Force rich whites to get vaccinations in the same clinics/hospitals/pharmacies as poor blacks. No private doctors or gated pharmacies or nurses at helicopter pads unless they're serving the poor as well.
This reckoning was a long time coming and it's unfortunate that we have to deal with it at the same time as another emergency but perhaps it will be a net good in the long run that COVID forced us to talk about it openly now.
On the topic of increasing trust. Here is a crazy and likely unenforceable idea I had just to open discussion. Force rich whites to get vaccinations in the same clinics/hospitals/pharmacies as poor blacks. No private doctors or gated pharmacies or nurses at helicopter pads unless they're serving the poor as well.
Of course, and I endorse deploying every means necessary. PSAs from people trusted by communities who have longstanding, justified distrust of medical authorities? Three Presidents in primetime getting injections where we can live bet on if anyone will cry from the needle? Delaney's $1500 vaccine stimulus check? Hell, triple it and write in the law that I specifically have to pay for someone else's stimulus check to get my vaccine. I truly don't care what it takes to maximize vaccine uptake.
The tenor of this thread irks me for reasons captured more eloquently by other posters (from what I recall, Deepwater and GYOX and a couple others) in how commentary (unintentionally!) strays much too close to the line of endorsing vaccine skepticism. Any attempts to rehash on my part would just be clumsy.
Any more commentary from me is wannabe-moderating and they can do their thing.
No, you just implied I was white by your response.
My ignorant ass posts saying anti-vax rhetoric is a major fucking problem in general? The solution is to say your communities will be decimated and publicly do vaccinations with various cultural leaders.
You think trying to reassure or ignore years of damage will solve this? Everyone finds reason to be anti-vax it's why uptake of the flu shot is only around 30% in most countries and up to 20% are anti-vaccination in general with that number trending up, concern around the covid vaccine is around 45%. Trump has thrown a major spanner in the works and made trust an all-time low with fears he'd act recklessly approving it.
Ultimately, people need to look at the science behind it. Convincing those people to willingly trust the science or investigate it is a monumental challenge that is likely insurmountable.
The sad thing about it is, the communities that are the most fearful of this are the ones that will suffer the most damage if they don't take it. It needs to be framed that way. Me being blunt about it is because there is no time to try and massage these opinions, you need to call it out for what it is, we need 75%+ coverage or it doesn't end.
Ultimately, governments and businesses need to treat this like the threat it is... Don't have the vaccine without a medical reason, then you can't use these services. It's the only way to ensure that whatever group within society doesn't jeopardize the entire system, whether it be Karen's or the black community who has an earned mistrust of the medical community.
god damnit.This is the real worry to me. Worrying about black people being unwilling to take a vaccine is irrelevant when they don't have timely/reasonable access to it in the first place. That feels like a much more pertinent worry for society.
The amount of controversy coming when it comes to equitable rollout will be immense.
The freakout about giving COVID vaccines to prisoners has already begun
Jails and prisons are virus hot spots, but politics could slow efforts to inoculate their residents.
A cheeky idea that's not enforceable but it would be useful if the government encouraged such people to volunteer. A bunch of celebrities' would definitely do it.
That's because strawmen were proffered disingenuously very early in the thread, and had to be correctly curtailed so that the actual subject of the thread can be properly highlighted. Letitia Wright, Kanye West, conspiracy theorists and the "ankh-right" in general are all tangential to this core concern. And absolutely none of that was established in the original post, yet it is where the discussion was yanked. And here we rest at a place where folks are uneasy with the tone of a thread, still talking around this central problem.
This window dressing is all well and good because it's easier to engage with - "it" being the optics of discussing broken faith in a medical and governmental system that has historically and contemporaneously maligned minority communities. But the meat of the discussion rests in the substance of this entire affair, and centering that is the only way to actually address the issue at hand. The possible optics of normalization will just have to be what they are if indeed people can look at that OP, and walk away thinking it's arguing for further distrust in the medical field or vaccines. At that point, I would consider that an indictment on their ability to receive information rather than a failure to construct the argument.
It's not just a racial gap... It's a gender gap, per these shocking studies.
Social media is rotting minds and soon it's going to be wrecking bodies.
I think there's arguably the questions surrounding pregnancy and the vaccine that account for some of this, but I am definitely more inclined to believe that women are more likely to be anti-vaccine based on social groupings.
Social media is rotting minds and soon it's going to be wrecking bodies.
I think there's arguably the questions surrounding pregnancy and the vaccine that account for some of this, but I am definitely more inclined to believe that women are more likely to be anti-vaccine based on social groupings.
In This thread and Shuri thread a lot of people exposed their own asses indeed
OP
OP
... About that...
When Doctors Downplay Women’s Health Concerns (Published 2018)
Bias can lead doctors to dismiss women’s health problems. Here’s how to get the care you need.
Doctors also ignore women. So basically all of these demographics that are hesitant about the vaccine have a history of being abused by the medical community.
It's not anti-vax. It's anti-white institutions that have a history of subpar treatment of non whites
As white people I don't know what we can do about this besides keep advocating against racial disparity in medicine and treatment, the skepticism is there because at best we're apathetic to it and at worst we've actively engaged in experimentation some real sick shit on minorities. Anything we say is going to be looked at with skepticism, I don't see a solution that doesn't come from within minority communities, as far as I can tell we just need to be supportive of and platform minorities who are working towards solving this.
I'm Black and I am very hesitant about this vaccine due to how rushed out the process is. I understand that we need a vaccine as soon as possible, mind you, but I can't help but be a little worried by how quick our leaders are saying "we have the cure!"
I think we should also be mindful of audience.
Clearly (and has been evidenced by this thread) there is an audience of people who need to be educated on why minorities' distrust and skepticism about a COVID vaccine and medicine in general are entirely rational and founded on centuries of still-ongoing medical racism.
At the same time, if you're a minority who was leaning towards not taking the vaccine (be that because of general skepticism or because you were already intellectually aware of this country's history of medical racism), then I would argue that this sort of PSA probably had the effect of pushing you further toward not taking the vaccine. And nobody benefits from that.
In my opinion, we are all better served if this sort of messaging and educating is pushed through public health circles and to the policy makers who have the power to act on it, rather than blasted through social media for laypeople to read and interpret as they will.