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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Yeah this, like I love SC, but having outfits like this does not help this game at all when it comes to wanting to just put one of my female characters in something that's cool. I found out you can't even layer it on with anything else to at least cover some of those parts up.
This has been her default outfit since DoA5:LR (some characters just got old outfits for their defaults in 6).Watching the DoA6 Quick Look and, while this is way more coverage than I'm used to from DoA, I still have severe issues with her bust size. Still, I guess it's a step forward?
It is (even though it is only on a surface level and doesn't account for unlockables or DLC), which makes how they went about things during that Evo Japan stream all the more baffling.
It's not exactly new. It was used in the F2P PS3 game. Designed by a hentai artist obviously. And now we must all suffer the inevitable army of Talims and Amys wearing it...
I mean...women have different bust sizes across the board, including busts as large as that. However, the only reason that stupid moeblob was created was to "outclass" the other women in the game in that regard. Changing it would be taking away the only reason for her existence. I'd ignore her and just focus on the good DOA characters. lol
Pretty much all women in modern fighting games are conventionally attractive. There's no real design variety.
At least it also adds a "traditional" ninja outfit so I can put Taki in something that's both in-character and dignified.
But yeah, I've been playing Soulcalibur VI for the past few weeks, and the level of cheap titillation on display is embarrassing.
Fighting games are weird for me because I'd like to play female characters a lot more, but sometimes the outfit designs aren't even cute. Like there seems to be a disparity between sexy clothes and cute clothes. I remember watching Valkyrie Aurora playing DOA Beach Volleyball a month back and when she went through the swimsuit options, she noted that none of the swimsuits were cute. I'd very much like to have my fighting game female in something that A) Looks comfortable and B) Looks believable in context to an extent.
My biggest gripe about SFV when I tried to play was some of the outfit choices and the overall way these women were portrayed really didn't sit well with me. Wanna know what's cool? A woman jiu-jitsu practitioner. Wanna know what isn't cool? The fact that she's in a sexy "gi" and the camera does it's damnedest to make you look at what's on display. I want more fighters like Makoto in fighting games, people like act these women characters don't have a personality outside of what they wear, but Ryu and Ken are palette swaps in gis. So I don't know why people fight tooth and nail over keeping Cammy in a leotard when she could very well wear something like Guile has and I'd be down for that.
I don't know, I just think people have this double standard where they say you can't change X woman character because it's apart of their personality. Meanwhile, most of the SF men cast got redesigns while Chun-Li, Cammy, and Mika didn't.
My biggest gripe about SFV when I tried to play was some of the outfit choices and the overall way these women were portrayed really didn't sit well with me. Wanna know what's cool? A woman jiu-jitsu practitioner. Wanna know what isn't cool? The fact that she's in a sexy "gi" and the camera does it's damnedest to make you look at what's on display. I want more fighters like Makoto in fighting games, people like act these women characters don't have a personality outside of what they wear, but Ryu and Ken are palette swaps in gis. So I don't know why people fight tooth and nail over keeping Cammy in a leotard when she could very well wear something like Guile has and I'd be down for that.
I don't know, I just think people have this double standard where they say you can't change X woman character because it's apart of their personality. Meanwhile, most of the SF men cast got redesigns while Chun-Li, Cammy, and Mika didn't.
Soul Calibur V pissed me off so much with how much that informed their roster choices. They didn't have any problem letting most of the male cast get older with its timeskip, but they'd rather remove or replace almost all the female cast entirely rather than ever depicting them being older.
Behold the horror of Cammy wearing pants!
...wait, that didn't hurt at all, why are FGC so unwilling for this again?
Behold the one time Cammy is fully covered in a game!
It's so annoying that people are so determined to have leotard cammy and ONLY leotard cammy when she's still pretty recognizable even when fully clothed.
...wait, that didn't hurt at all, why are FGC so unwilling for this again?
Behold the one time Cammy is fully covered in a game!
It's so annoying that people are so determined to have leotard cammy and ONLY leotard cammy when she's still pretty recognizable even when fully clothed.
And let's not forget Cammy's best costume in Street Fighter V:
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Man it's the best costume but jeez this also shows how every character's breast grew like 3 sizes in SFV (or at the very least that shirt belt thing is way too tight)
This has been happening with recurring characters in the SF franchise and fighting games in general, pretty much since every series' inception.
SNK Heroines is really just the most obvious, "this is what we think of women in fighting games."
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Looking at SNK Heroines makes me so disappointed they'd make a cash grab like that. And the point about Soul Calibur, like the series, has a big problem with how the women look in the game as a whole. SC6 just amplified that when they allowed the players the ability to customize the main roster. You have no clue how many characters I've seen dressed in Ivy's outfit and have the lower and upper halves pushed to the max. Even when they have a muscle definition feature, the women in the game still don't feel big or powerful enough for my taste. It's aggravating.
EDIT: While I'm on about muscles. Here's the thing that kills me: Let's look at R. Mika for a second. She's meant to be bulkier than most of the women on the roster, but it doesn't show. Sure, she's thick in the thighs, that's natural when you think about the fact she is indeed a wrestler. But if you contrast some of the art where her upper half looks like she has no upper body strength it makes her look weird. She's thick in certain proportions, but it doesn't translate in her body. But when you look at Nadeshiko, she has massive arms, her abs are seen through her singlet, her legs are muscular. It's so weird...
EDIT: While I'm on about muscles. Here's the thing that kills me: Let's look at R. Mika for a second. She's meant to be bulkier than most of the women on the roster, but it doesn't show. Sure, she's thick in the thighs, that's natural when you think about the fact she is indeed a wrestler. But if you contrast some of the art where her upper half looks like she has no upper body strength it makes her look weird. She's thick in certain proportions, but it doesn't translate in her body. But when you look at Nadeshiko, she has massive arms, her abs are seen through her singlet, her legs are muscular. It's so weird...
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Soul Calibur really bothers me. It's the only 3D fighting game I actually like but most of the female outfits are just trash. Being a fighting game fan sucks if you don't like sexualized outfits. Often times you have to like the game or characters in spite of their designs and not for them.
Yeah, the depiction and designs of women has been my most consistent disappoint as I venture into the fighting game genre. Like, using King of Fighters XIV as an example, you sometimes get a Mian, but there are way too many times you have to put up with an Angel.
Again, it's saying something that the only three old ladies I can think of in fighting games is an obscure fighting game that no one knows about (I have since realized it was localized as Power Instinct).
Funnily enough the game also features her mother who also is old so it's certainly something that it takes a gag fighting game before we see any old women in fighting games...
Funnily enough the game also features her mother who also is old so it's certainly something that it takes a gag fighting game before we see any old women in fighting games...
It's so odd, like any fighting game or games in general could had filled their sexyTM women quota (like power instinct) and put whatever in for the rest but no, NO say the developers/ (likely) publishers, we need endless titty for the titty gods, and objectifying characters for the objectifying throne. That won't certainly backfire, not at all.
YOU INSULT ME GOOD SIR!Again, it's saying something that the only three old ladies I can think of in fighting games is an obscure fighting game that no one knows about (I have since realized it was localized as Power Instinct).
Funnily enough the game also features her mother who also is old so it's certainly something that it takes a gag fighting game before we see any old women in fighting games...
I've known of Power Instinct since 1998, at the LEAST.
*slaps with glove*
Good day to you, sirrah!
therearedozensofus.gif
And if you dare turn the dial from an 11 to a...10.9999, you get accused of "harming boner culture".
It's ridiculous.
That's kind of what made me fall in love with Mian's design in KOF XIV. It's elegant and plays off her fighting style really well. And I think my favorite woman fighter in DOA is Mila. I just want some consistency in these art decisions! Like, lewd things are fine, you have kinks and fetishes it's healthy. But at the same time, they don't need to be so prevalent when you want to expose this game to a broader audience. I get there's some pushback from people in the FGC for that. And the FGC is trying to make strides to be welcoming to women and members of the LGBTQ community. But it's counterproductive to want to bring that audience in if you don't have anything that's tasteful for them to want to wear or look at.
Honestly, harmless fetishes I don't have that big of a problem with. I guess it depends on what kind of weird stuff you would deem like out there? I guess It's when I see stuff like ryona on Youtube being uploaded which perpetrates some very toxic forms of sex is where my line is drawn. I can see where you're coming from when it's pertaining to having them in games. That's understandable.
Well, a fetish, by definition, is an abnormal attraction to something. So if it's something like, "well, I'm attracted to slender legs" or something like that, that's a lot different from, "I go out and take voyeuristic photos of women's legs." I wouldn't really call the former a fetish, it's just an attraction.
I think the language gets confused and misused a lot.
That said, I do think certain designs, such as Ivy's, are very much built around fetishes.
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That's fair, I get where you're coming from. On the topic about Ivy, the way her personality, her weapon of choice, and the language of her clothes suggest that heavily. I really miss her aristocrat alternate clothes though, and I'm kind of glad they give you the option in SC6 when you want to customize her.
And here we go for another round of "Core Values" for the fighting games community in a brand new thread. Is it a weekend thing or what?
;(
;(
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Sindel from MK? Though that hasn't stopped her from having some...saucy designs. In a way, that's interesting. But, still...
What's annoying is how many of them just palm it off like it isn't their problem. Oh that's the twitch chat, that's not the FGC, oh that's just NRS Games, they and their games are not a part of the FGC, oh those are just casual fans, they aren't a part of the FGC, just palm off and palm off and refuse actually take any responsibility for their community.
Behold the horror of Cammy wearing pants!
...wait, that didn't hurt at all, why are FGC so unwilling for this again?
Behold the one time Cammy is fully covered in a game!
It's so annoying that people are so determined to have leotard cammy and ONLY leotard cammy when she's still pretty recognizable even when fully clothed.
I just hate how classic cammy looks like a doll costume considering her entire point of being is "traumatized for being a doll"
I guess in a way that's true. Unless you're a community leader, it's hard to really do anything that will actually matter.
Exactly this: the stream could've finished and EVO apologized, and there wouldn't have been such a big deal as this is now. To top it off, "Core Values" sounds a bit dumb, especially when you have what's basically a divide between the old grassroots FGC and the modern, "cleaner" eSports FGC. This video sums it up well.
I don't want you to misinterpret the subtext of my post, so I will clarify this: I think EVO absolutely made the right call in cutting off the DoA segment. The FGC is very much hypocritical, but I will never not applaud a move against sexism, no matter the shape or form. So you won't find me making fun of MrWizard's choice of words here. So, on the contrary, I am merely annoyed at the viewership of the FGC, because they point and laugh at it, but would have indulged in the show on display 100%.
Ah, I understand you. Honestly there's many things you can do about the FGC, but I think it'll be very hard to change them . Their roots are very much in that sort of "thug"-like arcade culture, and eSports is just going to be something they're going to have to tug with regarding things such as female designs, and also things such as changing how much skill is needed, which is already becoming apparent in SFV. It's a very uphill battle that I think could just have to resolve with the changing of generations as the newer/younger FGC people overtake the old guard.
This tweet really upsets me. Why are they doing this? To appear cool to the Core Values meme crowd?
Yeah, every time the discussion starts it becomes a blame game. Because they know if they have to have an actual discussion their bullshit will be outed and they don't have a leg to stand on.
It's marketing 101, take whatever's popular and try and use it as an advertisement. Has a better swing than miss rate. But when it misses, it misses. And HOO BOY did it miss.
The House in Fata Morgana takes a turn into the fan-service a bit too much about half way / two thirds of the way through. If you've played it you know when. Not game breaking by any means, but certainly noticiable especially since the game's art had been very low-key until now, for the most part. Bit disapointing really.
You can tell when a company is literally just looking at the trending hashtag list without bothering to look up the context first when you see batshit things like trying to work the name of a city into a tweet and not noticing that it was trending because it was the site of a mass shooting earlier that day.
You see the same shit whenever we have a topic about how maybe gaming and Gamers have a bit of a sexist, racist and/or bigot problem. Always conveniently there to tell us that is not our problem and that we shouldn't have talked about this in the first place.
I wish that shit was bannable because all it does is deflect from the topic and tries to shut down discussion. (I also think that the only reason you would do this is if your a sexist/racist/bigot yourself.)
It's annoying for sure. Just people palming off the problems and refusing to take an iota of responsibility for the community. Or even worse, say "it's the internet that's just how things are." It's only allowed because people allow it.
Also YouTube? FIx your goddamn alogorhythyms, watching videos by feminists about feminism should NOT recommend me a video titled "Why Bire Larson and SJW's cost Marvel ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS" Why would I even be interested in garbage like this!?!
I'm sure most people here saw that thread about the "anti-anime left" a week ago. I ended up watching the video. Video and audio criticisms aside, I wanted to bring up the supposed "animegate" the video claimed would happen if the left didn't stop.
Like, what would that even look like? Harassment campaigns against women in the anime industry? Not likely considering most if not all women working in the anime industry are in Japan and very few of them are openly feminist. Even more alt-right videos about SJWs from anime channels? The reactions to the Vic Mignogna debacle show a chunk of the anime community can't even stand against a man with a long and clear history of preying on women. Not even because they adore him but because they want to push the "men are under attack" narrative. Seems to me the anime community is being pushed to the alt right on its own.
I'm not trying to demonize the anime community. Just saying there is already right wing sections of it that didn't pop up cause feminists were being critical of anime tropes. I mean the medium doesn't even have its own version of Anita Sarkheesian to turn into a boogeyman.
Like, what would that even look like? Harassment campaigns against women in the anime industry? Not likely considering most if not all women working in the anime industry are in Japan and very few of them are openly feminist. Even more alt-right videos about SJWs from anime channels? The reactions to the Vic Mignogna debacle show a chunk of the anime community can't even stand against a man with a long and clear history of preying on women. Not even because they adore him but because they want to push the "men are under attack" narrative. Seems to me the anime community is being pushed to the alt right on its own.
I'm not trying to demonize the anime community. Just saying there is already right wing sections of it that didn't pop up cause feminists were being critical of anime tropes. I mean the medium doesn't even have its own version of Anita Sarkheesian to turn into a boogeyman.
So a few things regarding Darkstalkers
1- Felicia is naked. This is officially stated by Capcom, at least from older documents and sources. Now far as I can recall, outside of Dimitri's super and Anakaris' transformations, she isn't portrayed too sexualized, though more of a cutesy cat, but make your own judgement on that :X
2- Lilith gives me a feeling so complicated. Best way to explain what I mean by that is to just see some of her moves from Vampire Saviour onwards
https://youtu.be/ToSw8M_S1gE?t=85
Her neutral stance is neat though.
1- Felicia is naked. This is officially stated by Capcom, at least from older documents and sources. Now far as I can recall, outside of Dimitri's super and Anakaris' transformations, she isn't portrayed too sexualized, though more of a cutesy cat, but make your own judgement on that :X
2- Lilith gives me a feeling so complicated. Best way to explain what I mean by that is to just see some of her moves from Vampire Saviour onwards
https://youtu.be/ToSw8M_S1gE?t=85
Her neutral stance is neat though.
I mean, isn't that widely known? Many users in social networks who attack 'SJW' or women are cowards who hide behind an anime avatar. Sadly, many anime viewers tend to align with the alt-right. And considering Japanese media tends to be quite misogynistic like women wearing skimpy clothes or having girls being 'cute' to be attractive like Hashino's Persona games, it explains why those losers are attracted to that medium.
Geekdom as a whole is right-leaning. It always had been. It's literally the commercialisation of escapism.
Racist, homophobic Star Trek fans are a thing. They always have been. Back in thr 90s, my Trekkie mother used to tell teenage me that all "those gays" deserved to be "lined up and shot" ffs XD
Do you think it's a generalized thing worldwide? I kind of think it has more to do with social environment and context.
Take me for example. During my teenage years in the 90s, my friends and me (a group of girls and boys) pretty much were geeks heavily into video games and tabletop RPGs. We also really liked anime. But all of us were pretty much left-leaning about how we were seeing the world. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that we all grew up in a social context that would be described as center-left. And also that in addition to video games and geeky stuff, we also learned to like other things like art and cinema.
So I think that in the end, if a person becomes a far right-leaning bigot it has a lot more to do with social environment, context, and the character of a person than it has to do with the kind of entertainment that is consumed.
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The point that video was trying to make is a criticism of exactly what you're doing. In that you're looking at a small portion of the community and attributing their actions to the community as a whole. You don't look at all the people in the community that don't share those beliefs. I mean, some of the most popular anime Youtubers are very liberal (like Mother's Basement and Super Eyepatch Wolf). But this is common on the internet. People deciding that a vocal minority represents an entire fandom. When if one thing is clear, it's that people who're mad about something will always be far more vocal about that than those that are okay with it.
Last year one of the most popular animes was Zombie Land Saga. A show that would reveal one of the characters is trans. While some of the reaction was negative (like the guy claiming that he understood Japanese and that Crunchyroll's subs were wrong about her being trans), the overwhelming majority of the reaction was super positive. The creator of Sword Art Online just last month openly acknowledged that he fucked up how women are treated in his works and vowed to try to do much better. Last month even even apologized to the voice actresses for the hardship they may have gone through with having to voice characters who're victims of sexual violence. You know what changed his mind? When he went overseas he had fans talk to him about the way those characters are treated and he saw that his handling was poor and that he needs to handle them with more "political correctness" (he didn't mean this in a derogatory way). So he wants to work on giving female characters more agency now.
There are always going to be shitty aspects of any community, but what that video was talking about is not just ceding ground to that shitty aspect as if they're the majority. In many ways i'd compare this to the way people react now when they see the "Okay" hand sign. This
That's what that hand sign has meant for decades. And recently it's become popular in the NBA as a sign of a player hitting a 3
But then some people on the far right does it and it's accepted as being the universal sign for "White Power", and it's like WTF? Why just cede that to them like that?
Same way we lost the swastika symbol to the Nazis.
A symbol representing good luck, prosperity and the sun, now just represents hate, bigotry and killing millions of people.
Shit sucks. (I didnt know that the 'ok' symbol is now associated with bigotry as well to be honest)
Yeah, but with the swastika you're talking about a political party who co-opted it and then committed genocide under the symbol. With this it's primarily done to make the left look crazy. Because 99% of people who you see doing it will be doing it for reasons that have nothing whatsoever with White Power. So when a liberal points that meaning to people they just think they're out of their minds.
What I'm saying is that the social environment, context, and the character of a person is going to influence the media they consume.
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