Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

[Snormy]

On a completely other topic, you, proud member of wwccsd-Era, help me decide whether red dead redemption 2 is worth getting.

My problem is this: I don't particularly care about westerns. It's just not a compelling genre to me. I need some kind of twist for it to be interesting, like westworld. And honestly, growing up and learning about how is basically a white fantasy for people who want to live in lawless times when they're the ones in power hasn't endeared me to it since. And I didn't like the first game that much either when I tried it.

So I was initially not even gonna bother. But there has been so much praise heeped on it that I'm waffling. My solution is that I'd get it if I could find an excuse for it. And one hook I would take is good representation of its female characters in a empowering way.

So if anyone on here is playing the game and noticing it's got good female depiction, you can convince me, a total stranger, to get in on the craze.

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I mean, I don't have the game and can only go by my experience with the first game and what I've seen of the current game from various threads but I think you're just getting caught up in the hype. I would say that good representation of women in the game is not going to be a key feature and selling point. I certainly would not recommend the game for this criteria based on my knowledge of the series. If you're interested in good representation of women in empowering ways you might be better off asking for that here instead and listing the genres/platforms you have.

Typically when I get dragged aboard the hype train for a game I'm not interested in I just find something else to play and ride it out.

 

[Daouzin]

On a completely other topic, you, proud member of wwccsd-Era, help me decide whether red dead redemption 2 is worth getting.

My problem is this: I don't particularly care about westerns. It's just not a compelling genre to me. I need some kind of twist for it to be interesting, like westworld. And honestly, growing up and learning about how is basically a white fantasy for people who want to live in lawless times when they're the ones in power hasn't endeared me to it since. And I didn't like the first game that much either when I tried it.

So I was initially not even gonna bother. But there has been so much praise heeped on it that I'm waffling. My solution is that I'd get it if I could find an excuse for it. And one hook I would take is good representation of its female characters in a empowering way.

So if anyone on here is playing the game and noticing it's got good female depiction, you can convince me, a total stranger, to get in on the craze.

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Wasn't into RDR1 and the crunch stuff has me giving the games hard pass, but I was pretty unlikely to give it a shot. How ever I felt pretty similar to you before hand.

I have like 20+ games in My realistically will play pile, so I'm good.

 

[RM8]

Ok, I get the frustration in respect of oversexualized characters. But where's same frustration about Twilight-style movies with topless young boys in it? Doesn't it really seem like the other side of the coin?

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I'd hate it if 90% of male gaming protagonists were topless young boys. It's not the case, though!

Now, what was the fan reaction to designs like these again?

 

[Deleted member 41271]

eh, disagree with this. topless dude can be fanservice.

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Yes, but there's a wide scale between "topless dude" and "dude in banana hammock".

Female character designs tend to be much, much, much closer to banana hammock than topless dude.

Claiming that "topless dude" is on the same level as "girl in platemail lingerie" is disingenuous at best.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

 

[Snormy]

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

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Its like, I like it but I hate it because I can't have it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

Click to shrink...

Some of these work so well that I can't imagine how they actually look.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

That ISN'T her real look?

 

[Bricks]

Yes, but there's a wide scale between "topless dude" and "dude in banana hammock".

Female character designs tend to be much, much, much closer to banana hammock than topless dude.

Claiming that "topless dude" is on the same level as "girl in platemail lingerie" is disingenuous at best.

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Just to be clear, you're in the "better actually topless than chainmal bikini'd" camp, I suppose?

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

Click to shrink...

I like the idea, and some work really well (see the example above), but I also have to say that others don't look good at all. Give poor Usagi some normal pants :(
Also, just my two cents, I would juxtapose them with the original ones.

 

[Siggy-P]

Ok, I get the frustration in respect of oversexualized characters. But where's same frustration about Twilight-style movies with topless young boys in it? Doesn't it really seem like the other side of the coin?

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We discussed male sexualisation on page 9.

Honestly, Edward Cullen and Chrisian Gray are proper analogues.

They are two characters that specifically appeal in a base shallow manner both demeaning to themselves and their audience, and most men seem to go out of their way to express how much they despise the characters which shows how deep they cut.

Ofcourse the thing about sexualised male characters in media is that honestly you'll mostly find them in non-gaming mediums, such as books or some of the more modern action films and even then not many. It's very rare you'll find an actually demeaning sexualisation of a man in a game that isn't played for laughs.

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So read before you complain.

Regardless this ain't a topic about male sexualisation, feel free to make one. People here ain't opposed to the idea that men can be sexualised if that's what you're asking out, no one is unreasonable.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Just to be clear, you're in the "better actually topless than chainmal bikini'd" camp, I suppose?

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Actually, yeah. There's plenty of topless mermaid pictures that are more classy than what passes as outfits in JRPGs :P

(At the same time, we have plenty of cultural reasons to view a topless guy different than a topless woman, and considering that men groping women's breasts as sexual harassment is a thing, while women groping men's breasts as sexual harassment rarely ever happens, it's fairly clear that there's a general difference too)

 

[Choppasmith]

not exactly what I expected but ...

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I'm really pleasantly surprised that went in this direction. Should've done this with Terry too.

The funny thing is seeing so called "fans" get upset about this going "WTF? It's just Iori in drag."

People should be watching That Time I Reincarnated As A Slime instead of Goblin Slayer. It's still got big anime tiddies, but the main character treats everyone well and the world isn't set up to give you periodic rape scenes. And it has a tsundere dragon of unimaginable power

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Slime-san is one of the better Isekai stories out there, even if it's not terribly challenging

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Oh good to know it's worth a watch. It caught my eye seemingly being a nod to Dragon Quest, and Funimation is going to air a Simuldub.

Speaking of which, on the flip side Chiyo's School Road is a frustrating series. My sister and I watched the dub, and they did some great work here. My sister loves Garfunkel and Oates and the two main characters really give her that kind of vibe. But there's some Super skeevy stuff that we groaned at. You've got an obnoxious "tiddy monster" that's also a ridiculously pervy lesbian (the fact that she's "mentored" by an perverted older man seems to confirm my suspicions that "perverted lesbian woman" is gong to succeed the "pervy old man" trope completely in a few years) and a young man seemingly having feelings for the titular character who's a freshman in high school. Great concept, and the dub makes it fun, but there's a lot of bad stuff really dragging it down (I hear the manga is better and more restrained)

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

Click to shrink...

The girls with school uniforms (Sailor Moon and Kagome) look kinda off to me with the change, but everything else looks amazing! Like said above, that Black Clover character, I'd have no idea what she was supposed to look like. A lot of your choices are super stylish looking. Great job!

 

[Deleted member 41271]

You've got an obnoxious "tiddy monster" that's also a ridiculously pervy lesbian (the fact that she's "mentored" by an perverted older man seems to confirm my suspicions that "perverted lesbian woman" is gong to succeed the "pervy old man" trope completely in a few years)

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The one in the current season is even worse: she's a pedophile. That sure caused some "oh screw all of this" moments evem among more die-hard yuri fans.

Starlight Revue sure did "hopeless lesbian in love" so much better, even if the translation did its best to pretend it wasn't lesbian love at all, and she really loved potatos.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

I like the idea, and some work really well (see the example above), but I also have to say that others don't look good at all. Give poor Usagi some normal pants :(
Also, just my two cents, I would juxtapose them with the original ones.

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Sometimes, I just give them crazy pants for fun. It doubles as practice! I basically intend to do a mixture of "Okay what would look good though" and "What's the most outlandish thing to do here"

 

[Deleted member 3208]

I will never understand why Lyn never gets pants. Never.
She looks so awesome wearing them.

 

[yachtless]

The fact that we need a movie that came in 2008 to use as an example when we've been using examples from a few weeks at most says which is more problematic.

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I could easily bring newer examples. It just that I generally don't watch such movies ))

 

[Xaszatm]

I will never understand why Lyn never gets pants. Never.
She looks so awesome wearing them.

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Horny men > Sensible Design mainly

 

[yachtless]

Men don't have the history of ovjectification for it to be anywhere on the same scale.

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Are we living in history or today? If we are talking about equally respectful representation of a person, then let's face both sides of the coin.

 

[Biestmann]

I could easily bring newer examples. It just that I generally don't watch such movies ))

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Entertain us. Do, rather than say you could. I'm resistant to the idea men have it as bad as women in this regard (or most others). So I want to see the receipts.

 

[Deleted member 3208]

Horny men > Sensible Design mainly

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At least they didn't go with thigh highs and high heel boots.
Overall, her original outfit is good. Only minus point is the lack of pants. My favorite is the promoted version in Warriors.

 

[Ferrs]

I will never understand why Lyn never gets pants. Never.
She looks so awesome wearing them.

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Yeah they need to give her pants. And a nose, btw.

 

[yachtless]

The idea that this "frustration" doesn't exist is cute. Hilarious even. Have you never noticed the backlash to ANY women-aimed story with romance? Have you never seen the gargantuan hatred neckbeards screech over and over about stuff like, well, Twilight? Have you never seen gamers lose their shit the second a final fantasy character that was male had a slightly sexualized design?

So, first issue with your line: It exists. Men especially overreact constantly to women-aimed stories that have even slight fanservice. Bashing women-aimed stories is culturally normalized. If anything, this thread is providing the missing other side of the coin, so you've got that one backwards.

Second isssue: Topless young dudes are not the equivalent of sexualized outfits for female characters. This is:

So we've got some catching up to do.

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1) I was talking about those people who start to overreact at the sight of slightly sexualized (or just sexy) female characters. Somehow they feel totally fine when male characters are depicted in similar way.

2) How about standard depiction of the couple after night spent together in movies/TV? That one when a guy is shown barely covered under the sheets when his spouse is usually covered almost head to toes?

3) Men overreact on women-aimed stories mainly because they are... well, terrible. If we talk about some 'twilight' or 'shades of gray' or whatever other mainstream franchise with terrible acting and quite low cultural background then it seems quite obvious that they aim on the same instincts that are being used by the gamedev aiming on the male audience. It's same old 'sex sells' principle. And 'overreacting' is there mainly because the fanservice looks like the purpose of existence instead of the feature.

4) Your 'example' is far from usual slightly sexualized depiction of female characters (if you are not into the japan visual sex novels).

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Are we living in history or today? If we are talking about equally respectful representation of a person, then let's face both sides of the coin.

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Perhaps you could provide this example of gratuitous sexualized male character catering to women in mainstream media that doesn't actually received pushbacks and ridicules?

 

[Ferrs]

It's amazing how men still fails to see the difference between a sexualized man that looks strong and buff and confident and a sexualized women that looks weak, fragile and wears a tong when going to battle.

Like, it's just so wrong to compare both when one still can be reflected as a power fantasy for it's gender and the other is just degrading.

 

[yachtless]

Entertain us. Do, rather than say you could. I'm resistant to the idea men have it as bad as women in this regard (or most others). So I want to see the receipts.

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OK, if U insist.
"Vampire Diaries", MCU franchise, Maze Runner franchise, 'shade of gray' franchise, that strippers picture with Tatum — it's what came to my mind at a glance.

 

[Crossing Eden]

That ISN'T her real look?

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Apparently she has an out of place pink skirt that totally doesn't vibe with the color scheme..

 

[Deleted member 3208]

Apparently she has an out of place pink skirt that totally doesn't vibe with the color scheme..

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Now this looks terrible. The pants version is way better.

 

[Zhukov]

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

Click to shrink...

Would you consider including the original design alongside the pantsed version for the benefit of those who enjoy character redesigns but don't watch much anime?

 

[yachtless]

It's amazing how men still fails to see the difference between a sexualized man that looks strong and buff and confident and a sexualized women that looks weak, fragile and wears a tong when going to battle.

Like, it's just so wrong to compare both when one still can be reflected as a power fantasy for it's gender and the other is just degrading.

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First of all, let's face the truth — women are physically weaker comparing to men. They may look weak and fragile, but that is not a problem if they really are weak and fragile. It's all about the story, you see.

 

[Ferrs]

First of all, let's face the truth — women are physically weaker comparing to men. They may look weak and fragile, but that is not a problem if they really are weak and fragile. It's all about the story, you see.

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yes, because both women and men only has 1 type of body physique and strength. Go troll another thread, please.

 

[Xaszatm]

OK, if U insist.
"Vampire Diaries", MCU franchise, Maze Runner franchise, 'shade of gray' franchise, that strippers picture with Tatum — it's what came to my mind at a glance.

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...MCU has topless naked boys? Constantly? Some movies have one scene, meanwhile women need to have they tits in front of the camera 24/7, there's no comparison. And as for the rest, Shades of Gray has tons of complaints and I haven't heard of the rest.

 

[Siggy-P]

OK, if U insist.
"Vampire Diaries", MCU franchise, Maze Runner franchise, 'shade of gray' franchise, that strippers picture with Tatum — it's what came to my mind at a glance.

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You think they're even close to comparible to the likes of the women in Goblin Slayer and Soul Caliber?

I mean... Maze Runner? Fucking Maze Runner?!?

First of all, let's face the truth — women are physically weaker comparing to men. They may look weak and fragile, but that is not a problem if they really are weak and fragile. It's all about the story, you see.

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Women are weaker so they should be dress sexier. Is that the point you're implying here?


(These are retorical questions btw, we all know what you really think. Your BS is nothing special)

 

[Xaszatm]

Man, this thread has practically been here since the beginning and still attracts flies like honey.

 

[Crossing Eden]

No one tell that dude about Kassandra, his head might explode from the idea that a woman in a piece of fiction can be a power fantasy too.

 

[Nana&Popo]

OK, if U insist.
"Vampire Diaries", MCU franchise, Maze Runner franchise, 'shade of gray' franchise, that strippers picture with Tatum — it's what came to my mind at a glance.

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I'm a lesbian so maybe I don't know male sexualization when I see it, but these are tame as all hell from what I've seen of them. Can any one of these even compare to Ivy from Soul Cailbur or Aversa from fire emblem?

 

[Biestmann]

Now that he mentioned it, the incredible Hulk really is sexualized 100% of the time he is on screen. /s

 

[mikeys_legendary]

It's 2018. Where are our dick physics? Boobs have been unnaturally jiggling in games for two decades, what about the twig-n-berries?

On a (somewhat) more serious note, why are people trying to equate the oversexualization of men in media like Twilight to what goes on in videogames with women? Ray Charles could see that the two don't add up. There are entire game series dedicated to objectifying women.

 

[Redcrayon]

MCU is a hilarious pick considering how it's flagship films (and, to be fair, the source material) frame their longest-running female character. It's not just the outfits, it's how it's framed with the ridiculous tits n' arse pose, as satirised below if they exchanged the guys heroic poses for how they treat Black Widow.

(Credit: Kevin Bolk, deviantart)

 

[Kthulhu]

it took me too long ot think of this thread and this isn't exactly gaming related but since game designers often are the same as anime character designers

https://twitter.com/anime_pants

i've been doing a thing where i give anime girls pants. enjoy

Click to shrink...

Some of these look official. Nice job!

 

[Kthulhu]

MCU is a hilarious pick considering how it's flagship films (and, to be fair, the source material) frame their longest-running female character. It's not just the outfits, it's how it's framed with the ridiculous tits n' arse pose, as satirised below if they exchanged the guys heroic poses for how they treat Black Widow.

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Captain America looks like he's doing a JoJo pose.

 

[Xaszatm]

No one tell that dude about Kassandra, his head might explode from the idea that a woman in a piece of fiction can be a power fantasy too.

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How IS Assassin Creed Oddysey anyways? I've heard great things about Kassandra but is the gameplay any good?

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Apparently she has an out of place pink skirt that totally doesn't vibe with the color scheme..

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That's the literal textbook definition of a fashion disaster!

Also jee, what is it with "but men are sexualized too! Here are some examples that, combined, aren't even as sexualized as Ivy's foot" posters?

Also, here is a true example of the horrifix extents of male sexualization:
/contsched.ymtisazx.lsr/1200x630bb.jpg

Yikes! I'm blushing, such sexualization, much not worksafe, wow. Maze runner.

 

[RM8]

I will never understand why Lyn never gets pants. Never.
She looks so awesome wearing them.

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Imagine thinking this looks prudish/feminist/SJWish/whatever, lol.

 

[Ferrs]

How IS Assassin Creed Oddysey anyways? I've heard great things about Kassandra but is the gameplay any good?

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IMO yeah, it's more like an open world RPG and less like the old ACs, did you play Origins?

Imagine thinking this looks prudish/feminist/SJWish/whatever, lol.

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Especially when it still has some "heh" stuff like the tit-pushing belt and the usual overall lack of muscle mass on any female warrior.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Also jee, what is it with "but men are sexualized too! Here are some examples that, combined, aren't even as sexualized as Ivy's foot" posters?

Also, here is a true example of the horrifix extents of male sexualization:

Yikes! I'm blushing, such sexualization, much not worksafe, wow. Maze runner.

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Like, I'm sure there's a point to be had about male sexualization, but to bring up these examples as "the other side of the coin" when our latest discussion is about Goblin Slayer...

 

[Ferrs]

Like, I'm sure there's a point to be had about male sexualization, but to bring up these examples as "the other side of the coin" when our latest discussion is about Goblin Slayer...

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I expect anyday someone coming here to tell us goblins are naked therefore are sexualized at this point.

 

[Redcrayon]

I expect anyday someone coming here to tell us goblins are naked therefore are sexualized at this point.

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Plus #notallgoblins are rapists. It's difficult being a goblin in modern times, goblin lives matter too! The media has it in for them etc etc

 

[Deleted member 41271]

Like, I'm sure there's a point to be had about male sexualization, but to bring up these examples as "the other side of the coin" when our latest discussion is about Goblin Slayer...

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Oh, I do think that one can have multiple good points about this. they're just not brought up by a certain type of poster >_>

 

[Siggy-P]

That's the literal textbook definition of a fashion disaster!

Also jee, what is it with "but men are sexualized too! Here are some examples that, combined, aren't even as sexualized as Ivy's foot" posters?

Also, here is a true example of the horrifix extents of male sexualization:
/contsched.ymtisazx.lsr/1200x630bb.jpg

Yikes! I'm blushing, such sexualization, much not worksafe, wow. Maze runner.

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Maze Runner is such an insane, wierd example. I've taken my little brother to see them and there's nothing sexual about any of the characters in it. I mean they're fucking teens and fully dressed.

 

[Xaszatm]

IMO yeah, it's more like an open world RPG and less like the old ACs, did you play Origins?



Especially when it still has some "heh" stuff like the tit-pushing belt and the usual overall lack of muscle mass on any female warrior.

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I haven't played any Assassin's Creed to be honest.

That's the literal textbook definition of a fashion disaster!

Also jee, what is it with "but men are sexualized too! Here are some examples that, combined, aren't even as sexualized as Ivy's foot" posters?

Also, here is a true example of the horrifix extents of male sexualization:
/contsched.ymtisazx.lsr/1200x630bb.jpg

Yikes! I'm blushing, such sexualization, much not worksafe, wow. Maze runner.

Click to shrink...

lol, it's almost as if its insecurity that drives the "men are sexualized too" talk. Of course there is actual discussion to be had about male sexualization but the people using it to "both sides" it certainly aren't doing it in good faith.