Will we ever get an SRPG with high production values?

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,029
FE has sold just as well as Divinity. And it has certainly sold more than Battletech.

Nintendo can afford to have similar production values but leans heavily in the direction of maximizing profit than producing polished efforts these days.
How long were previous Fire Emblem games versus Three Houses?
You have a game with 4 paths, each around 50 hours, a way of maximizing profits? All lines of dialogue are voiced - if they had gone back to Awakening’s model of voice a few lines I’d believe you, but 3H is not budget, at all. They simply decided to invest that money in other things than graphics, which seems to be your only metric for production values.
 

Oregano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
Fire Emblem Three Houses looks a bit rough around the edges(literally) but it's absolutely high budget, especially in comparison to any other Japanese SRPGs. There's probably more VA for incidental dialogue than there are for entire games.

Also it looks pretty okay overall, nothing amazing but people are being way too harsh on it.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,521
Spain
Fire Emblem Three Houses looks a bit rough around the edges(literally) but it's absolutely high budget, especially in comparison to any other Japanese SRPGs. There's probably more VA for incidental dialogue than there are for entire games.

Also it looks pretty okay overall, nothing amazing but people are being way too harsh on it.
Yeah, I played Valkyria Chronicles 4 on Switch six months ago and I can't understand people saying that the game had a lot more budget.
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,962
Do you have any proof of both budgets? Apart from the fact of being on different platforms and such.
I said Nintendo can afford to do better. Do you think Paradox or Larian makes more money than them? What figure do you think is too much for nintendo to afford?

Divinity is a console game too btw.
 

Moltres006

Member
Jan 5, 2019
1,058
FE has sold just as well as Divinity. And it has certainly sold more than Battletech.

Nintendo can afford to have similar production values but leans heavily in the direction of maximizing profit than producing polished efforts these days.
False, all the Nintendo EAD games look great. ACNH, Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, BOTW, MK8DX, ect....
Nintendo only publishes Fire Emblem games.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,052
Wisconsin
I think it's a situation where money can't fix everything. The game can be either huge in scope and a little rough looking or smaller and gorgeous and they decided to go with the first option this time.
 
OP
OP

banshee150

Member
Apr 3, 2019
506
I think it's a situation where money can't fix everything. The game can be either huge in scope and a little rough looking or smaller and gorgeous and they decided to go with the first option this time.
But Koei games have always been janky. If you compare TH to previous less budget heavy games you dont see that jankiness. I dont understand why IS took a hands off approach here. Do they intend to outsource it moving forward as well?
 

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,029
But Koei games have always been janky. If you compare TH to previous less budget heavy games you dont see that jankiness. I dont understand why IS took a hands off approach here. Do they intend to outsource it moving forward as well?
IS probably didn't had an engine ready to go for a big HD Fire Emblem game. Their previous HD game, Color Splash, was a totally different thing to FE.
Probably once their team gets more experience in HD development they won't depend as much on outsourcing, but in this time and age, to get the game out the door in a timely manner, getting external assistance is a must.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,641
I doubt it. Probably doesn't have the mainstream appeal for that. As for Three Houses, I would have even preferred a really clean 2D look over the grimy textures and super aliased visuals we got.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,839
Barcelona
Games from previous generations had collision physics. Games on Switch have collision physics. Why exactly would that break the bank?
See, the game uses an engine that is basically aimed to big battles with tons of enemies, low detail terrain and lots of pop-in. It's not a matter of polish or a matter of budget, it's a matter of collaboration with Tecmo-Koei, which has a bad tech reputation, because it was an available partner and they decided to work with them because of Nintendo Musou collaborations and a stablished relation with the company.

They delayed the game twice, but even so the engine is what it is and restarting the project was not a possibility after creating all the content.

Edit: Also we don't know what game are developing most of IS workers, it can be FE4 remake, it can be a new Paper Mario... it can be anything, so they decided to split the efforts between the two teams (most of IS and some IS working with Tecmo).
 

Oregano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
But Koei games have always been janky. If you compare TH to previous less budget heavy games you dont see that jankiness. I dont understand why IS took a hands off approach here. Do they intend to outsource it moving forward as well?
Awakening/Fates/Echoes already had a bunch of outsourcing.

Also Awakening characters didn't even have feet. Three Houses is already a much better foundation...
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,962
So Nintendo games are not "polished efforts". I wonder how a polished game is then.
You could point to many before they started implementing online.

See, the game uses an engine that is basically aimed to big battles with tons of enemies, low detail terrain and lots of pop-in. It's not a matter of polish or a matter of budget, it's a matter of collaboration with Tecmo-Koei, which has a bad tech reputation, because it was an available partner and they decided to work with them because of Nintendo Musou collaborations and a stablished relation with the company.

They delayed the game twice, but even so the engine is what it is and restarting the project was not a possibility after creating all the content.

Edit: Also we don't know what game are developing most of IS workers, it can be FE4 remake, it can be a new Paper Mario... it can be anything, so they decided to split the efforts between the two teams (most of IS and some IS working with Tecmo).
So they found a partner who could do it cheaply who would also cut back on other aspects people have come to expect from FE.
 

Vault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,220
Three houses is weird because the characters faces look decent but the textures on the clothes look awful.

If they actually put some effort into the environments and polished up textures it would look really good
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,766
Square should do a remake of FF Tactics with the presentation of FFVII Remake but they won’t.

XCOM 2 is as good as it’s going to get this gen.
 

JaxiPup

Member
Dec 23, 2017
310
Massachusetts
I'd bet the inevitable XCOM 3 will take some steps forward in production.

But I think mass market appeal for SRPGs is always tied to the negative feelings toward random number generators. Despite being a pretty big source of ludo-narrative gameplay, folks really seem to dislike it, even when its hidden and padded as well as XCOM 2. I've seen so much conversation about the distaste for RNG, but FE:3Hs success is definitely throwing that for a loop. Really hope its success drives more games tho
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,839
Barcelona
So they found a partner who could do it cheaply who would also cut back on other aspects people have come to expect from FE.
I don't think that people expected great graphics from FE. Sure, Echoes had a great presentation but it was a remake that had only a fraction of the content in 3H and really bad map design. The thing with 3H is that they focused the efforts on content and changing lots of mechanics from FE games. And the reception of the game has been great, the multiple routes and monastery exploration are praised and the fans are happier with this game that with the 3 3DS entries.

We will see how they take the praise and criticism, they sure know that the game looks ugly, so let's see if they decide to go the Fates route (with this I mean taking the base of 3H and polishing presentation and mechanics).
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
2,390
It's hard enough if you're hoping for high production turn-based JRPGs since those seem to only come out every year or two. When I played Lunar: Eternal Blue on the Sega CD in the mid-90's, it blew me away with its technology & budget. CD-quality sound! Anime cutscenes! Voice acting! In the PS2 era, we got more than a few big budget JRPGs, but it's really died down since then (with the occasional DQ11 being a nice surprise). And SRPGs are an even smaller niche than turn-based JRPGs.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
Canada
Well OP, you'll be glad to hear that Fire Emblem: Three Houses is selling quite well so I do imagine the next FE game would be an improvement production wise :)

Honestly in terms of presentation the music and voice acting is already there, I think what we need is perhaps more stylized graphics so squeeze the most of the Switch and more anime cutscenes.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,924
Well OP, you'll be glad to hear that Fire Emblem: Three Houses is selling quite well so I do imagine the next FE game would be an improvement production wise :)

Honestly in terms of presentation the music and voice acting is already there, I think what we need is perhaps more stylized graphics so squeeze the most of the Switch and more anime cutscenes.
I don't know how much more stylized you can get without going chibi and solid colors. Koei Tecmo's games have never been lookers and FE suffers from the engine being optimized for other things