Would you consider the Raytracing tech the RTX 20XX series have as "Next Gen"?

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

Nooblet said:
That RTX on and off example in the OP is kind of pissing me off as in my opinion it's a misleading piece of material. What's actually happened there is RTX off is without Global Illumination and RTX on is with GI. Yes I understand that RTX is being used to compute the GI in that scene but that's not what the image implies, instead it implies that you cannot have GI without RTX when on the contrary we've seen real time GI (of some form) being done without ray tracing in recent years, as such it should be that without RTX you cannot have as accurate GI as you have when you are using RTX.

Ofcourse then they run into the issue of not being able to clearly show substantial visible difference between non RTX GI and GI that's done using RTX, but atleast it'd be an accurate representation.

I think it's a misunderstanding, you can absolutely have GI without RTX, but the effects of RTX have a more drastic appearance when RTX is computing GI. It's a presentation that's specifically highlighting the qualities and abilities of Raytracing, so they purposely showcase RTX computed GI rather than showing standalone GI.

Spedfrom · Aug 20, 2018

On PC it's now current gen, as it's out and available with these cards. On consoles it's definitely a next gen thing.

1-D_FE · Aug 20, 2018

Soundchaser said:
You sound like a FUD mouthpiece. If you find any actual evidence of Nvidia hiding something, you are more than welcome to present it.

I'm beating the dead horse because they refuse to address the elephant in the room.

I'm sorry I've been around the block a couple times and know Nvidia is the king of launch BS (been burned enough by their launch lies that I refuse to believe anything they ever say during these propoganda stages.) Every single launch. This is the worst of them all. Because it's so obvious with the presentation. If people wanna close their eyes and be corporate fanboys despite all the freaking evidence in the world staring at their face, that's not my problem. Of course I can't present evidence. Because every piece of evidence that could support this view was conveniently ignored. They could have easily shown the performance hit it did or didn't have. They fact the presentation was built around revealing nothing is the ultimate tell. What are they hiding if they have nothing to hide? Sounds like a good Nvidia slogan.

Heisenburger · Aug 20, 2018

Seems like marketing bullshit to push new cards.

When the fast action is going on in an online multiplayer game, you won't even notice.

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

1-D_FE said:
I'm beating the dead horse because they refuse to address the elephant in the room.

I'm sorry I've been around the block a couple times and know Nvidia is the king of launch BS (been burned enough by their launch lies that I refuse to believe anything they ever say during these propoganda stages.) Every single launch. This is the worst of them all. Because it's so obvious with the presentation. If people wanna close their eyes and be corporate fanboys despite all the freaking evidence in the world staring at their face, that's not my problem. Of course I can't present evidence. Because every piece of evidence that could support this view was conveniently ignored. They could have easily shown the performance hit it did or didn't have. They fact the presentation was built around revealing nothing is the ultimate tell. What are they hiding if they have nothing to hide? Sounds like a good Nvidia slogan.

I agree to a certain degree (see the bolded), but this event was to specifically announce their new line of cards along with a focused featureset. We'll see performance tests and benchmarks in the next couple weeks before launch.

JahIthBer · Aug 20, 2018

Wollan said:
Motion Matching animation as seen in The Last of Us 2 gameplay demo is what I consider next-gen (even though it's current-gen hardware) and something that will actually be of immediate practical value to consumers. Helping to solve the really hard problems of totally seamless animation blending it could end up being one of the holy grails within interaction.

Gif credit to nib95.

RTX hybrid ray-tracing effects are very subtle and extremely computationally expensive and premature from a consumer standpoint (though I appreciate the R&D and developer benefits, I would love to play around with it). We're a decade away from proper use and more wide-spread adoption (even considering ML reconstruction and de-noising).
Of course, realtime ray-tracing itself is the holy grail of graphics but RTX is NOT delivering on that and vendors won't anytime soon. It's a tiny little step on a long road.

I love Naughty Dog as much as anyone, but don't trust their E3 Demo's, ever.
Nvidia overcharge for their products like a mofo, but the demo's they show are always real at least.

a stray cat · Aug 20, 2018

1-D_FE said:
I don't expect the new consoles to have it because I don't believe it's worth the high cost right now. Do I feel this is the natural evolution? Of course. But I also feel Nvidia is hiding the frame-rate hit and this probably should have waited until it wasn't such a high trade off. Nvidia loves to crow. The fact they're either completely refusing to mention frame-rate or using unimpressive single frame render times to try and confuse people who don't take 2 seconds to do the conversion troubles me a lot. It's the actions of a company really trying to hide something.

I was at the Advances in Real-Time Rendering talk at SIGGRAPH and they did show some improvement numbers. They were rendering four of the linearly transformed cosign area lights and then raytracing soft shadows at 1spp + denoising (reconstruction? I wasn't paying so much attention since I might have been following a live-blog of the keynote at the time) and I believe the speedup over Pascal was something like 15ms for the raytrace+denoise to 3ms for four area lights. It wasn't until the numbers chart that I really began to consider it as more than just a gimmick.

Definitely not going to be common in games for years yet, but it generally takes a couple of gens of the tech being widely available before actual production adoption.

mutantmagnet · Aug 20, 2018

Anthony Hopkins said:
It may effect multiple aspects, but it does not affect polycount, texture quality and animation.

Technically it does affect texture quality.

Basically by casting realistic light rays they can better present how illuminated details look with far more granularity because light rays will always be more numerous than whatever a designer attempts to make by tool assisted hands.

J_ToSaveTheDay · Aug 20, 2018

Ray-tracing provides a profound level of detail and depth to an image immediately upon application that can't be understated from what I can see from these demonstrations. It's absolutely a next-gen step in rendering as far as I'm concerned.

Man, ray-tracing paired with increasingly standardized HDR implementation will be a hell of a step forward. I don't doubt that people will wax nostalgic about the best graphics of this generation in games like God of War and try to point to them as examples of how little graphics have actually advanced, but then someone will do a side-by-side comparison with something that actually uses the tech and it'll be instantly noticeable in difference, same way I feel people had a habit of pointing at graphics from the PS3/360 gen and tried to make the argument that they barely moved this gen. I will admit that his current gen feels like the most incremental step, but I do think that we did at some point reach a point where it was DEFINITELY a noticeable difference, and now I don't see that argument made all that often anymore.

People will just have to adapt to seeing it applied in real world games on a frequent basis, but once it's there, I don't think we'll be able to look back and say "yeah it didn't really add much."

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

a stray cat said:
I was at the Advances in Real-Time Rendering talk at SIGGRAPH and they did show some improvement numbers. They were rendering four of the linearly transformed cosign area lights and then raytracing soft shadows at 1spp + denoising (reconstruction? I wasn't paying so much attention since I might have been following a live-blog of the keynote at the time) and I believe the speedup over Pascal was something like 15ms for the raytrace+denoise to 3ms for four area lights. It wasn't until the numbers chart that I really began to consider it as more than just a gimmick.

Definitely not going to be common in games for years yet, but it generally takes a couple of gens of the tech being widely available before actual production adoption.

Aren't they integrating it into Unreal? because if that's the case, RTX could easily replace the GI options in Unreal and make it a standard right off the bat.

Anthony Hopkins said:
It may effect multiple aspects, but it does not affect polycount, texture quality and animation.

Doesn't affect animation, but it definitely affects textures.

RivalGT · Aug 20, 2018

Its nextgen to me, only issue with the new GPUs right now is support for software, and the asking price. I do plan to get a 2080 Ti, but I'm not expecting to be amazed by the software right away. Also if nextgen consoles dont have ray tracing, how much support can we realistically expect on PC.

a stray cat · Aug 20, 2018

spad3 said:
Aren't they integrating it into Unreal? because if that's the case, RTX could easily replace the GI options in Unreal and make it a standard right off the bat.

It's not going to be the standard until the hardware supporting it has wide adoption and the performance cost is considered worth it. Until then, it'll be extra.

Pokemaniac · Aug 20, 2018

Ray tracing could certainly be the next big paradigm shift in real time graphics.

I do think it could take a while before it really takes over though.

VariantX · Aug 20, 2018

I think it is. It's closer to how light works in the real world. It's definitely going to change how we talk about graphics hardware from the jump. Don't even have a clue how it compares to the older hardware.

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

a stray cat said:
It's not going to be the standard until the hardware supporting it has wide adoption and the performance cost is considered worth it. Until then, it'll be extra.

Fair enough. I guess the other roadblock for standardization is developer accessibility right? If RTX works in the same manner as GI then it shouldn't be too much of a difference on the developer end. If it's a whole new beast entirely, then that may affect developer adoption as well (longer dev period dedicated to lighting, complexity of engine integration, etc.)

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

RivalGT said:
Its nextgen to me, only issue with the new GPUs right now is support for software, and the asking price. I do plan to get a 2080 Ti, but I'm not expecting to be amazed by the software right away. Also if nextgen consoles dont have ray tracing, how much support can we realistically expect on PC.

You're not going to see much software support just yet, but by end of next year you'll probably start seeing more and more games that will support RTX (and possibly some old games that will get patches to support it)

Zubalon · Aug 20, 2018

I can all but gaurentee PS5 and Nextbox will both have Ray tracing .. Ive been waiting for a card with Ray tracing well since ....my first Voodoo 2 ... I'll pay 1200$ no problem for this !!

a stray cat · Aug 20, 2018

spad3 said:
Fair enough. I guess the other roadblock for standardization is developer accessibility right? If RTX works in the same manner as GI then it shouldn't be too much of a difference on the developer end. If it's a whole new beast entirely, then that may affect developer adoption as well (longer dev period dedicated to lighting, complexity of engine integration, etc.)

I'm going to assume that by GI you mean better specular, and not all the rest of it like indirect lighting/ambient occlusion/etc. Even with just better specular, it's not going to be as easy as flipping a switch. I'm also going to assume that this is just for very shiny (smooth) objects, since raytracing rough stuff sucks.

First you have the extra step of building an acceleration structure for your scene. This is the part I'm least sure about -- it's not clear how much memory this takes or how fast it is to build.

I assume it's going to be based on whatever they're doing for Optix, so it's "fast enough" for a limited number of dynamic objects, but this means that each ray has to traverse essentially a static bvh and a dynamic one.

Second you're going to have to have to shade the point that you hit for your specular ray. This means that somehow you'll have to have your materials set up so that you can tell by the triangle id what material it is, and by the material id which textures to sample from in order to shade the point. Or, maybe, you can do sneakier SSR and just reproject the hit point onto the screen and see if that works.
Not sure that'll be faster than modern SSR techniques though.

Lastly, now you have a very noisy specular image and will need to denoise it. NVIDIA has a denoiser in their gameworks, and I assume most demos are using that, but you'll still have to hook it up.

z0m3le · Aug 20, 2018

Nostremitus said:
Well, it's a step back to fixed shaders instead of programmable shaders, so any games that don't need or would minimally use Ray Tracing will have a lot of unused silicon just sitting.

But for the games that will use it, ie most AAA games, it will free up a lot of performance by offloading lighting and shadows from the compute units to the fixed function RT(?) units.

You know how much performance you lose when setting lighting and shadows to ultra? With fixed function shaders doing it, you should get ABOVE current ultra setting with the performance impact of setting them to low or off if Nvidia did it right.

All games use lighting. It's simply true lighting simulation and is needed for a true leap in graphics. PS5 and XBnext (if Microsoft doesn't go with Nvidia) will lack this tech for real-time in game use. It could possibly have reflections that update at maybe 5fps, but AMD isn't going to be able to stumble on this tech, it will take them 3 or 4 more years to get to real-time Ray tracing, pushing PC into a gen higher than consoles, something we haven't seen for nearly 10 years.

plagiarize · Aug 20, 2018

I don't think next gen consoles will have this. I'd love to be wrong, but this is definitely a valid reason to go from GTX to RTX and 10xx to 20xx. So, yes. Next gen.

Nostremitus · Aug 20, 2018

z0m3le said:
All games use lighting. It's simply true lighting simulation and is needed for a true leap in graphics. PS5 and XBnext (if Microsoft doesn't go with Nvidia) will lack this tech for real-time in game use. It could possibly have reflections that update at maybe 5fps, but AMD isn't going to be able to stumble on this tech, it will take them 3 or 4 more years to get to real-time Ray tracing, pushing PC into a gen higher than consoles, something we haven't seen for nearly 10 years.

AMD already has real time Ray Tracing, the Vulkan Implementation is called Radeon Rays, ~~but not for consumer level workloads or GPUs~~. But then, Nvidia didn't until today. If Navi cards really are powered by clusters of 7nm Navi GPUs sharing a die using infinity fabric as an interconnect and on-die HBM, like the GPU equivalent of Zen but without the interconnect speed hampered by DDR4 speeds and latencies, it's possible AMD could bring their own variant of real time Ray tracing to the consumer level as well.

At least, that's the only way I see AMD surviving and not going bankrupt once Intel GPUs hit. If they can't pull it off, Radeon will most likely go away.

Edit: Correction, apparently Radeon Ray's is a Vulkan Open Source implementation. There's a game coming out this year that uses Radeon Rays for real time Ray tracing on Radeon GPUs. Apparently the way Radeon cards handle asynchronous compute allows them to crunch the rays better than Nvidia's non-RTX GPUs? But I still expect it to be a resource hog on current Radeon GPUs.

When does Doom Eternal come out?
https://wccftech.com/amds-open-source-vulkan-ray-tracing-engine-debuting-in-games-this-year/amp/

Luke76bg · Aug 20, 2018

Anthony Hopkins said:
No.
Next gen to me is when there are new consoles (a successor not an iteration like the mid gens)
Where every visual aspect is improved not just one aspect.

Exactly my same thought!

Tagyhag · Aug 20, 2018

Ray tracing is definitely the future.

But as far as next gen? Maybe it'll be too early.

spad3 · Aug 20, 2018

a stray cat said:
I'm going to assume that by GI you mean better specular, and not all the rest of it like indirect lighting/ambient occlusion/etc. Even with just better specular, it's not going to be as easy as flipping a switch. I'm also going to assume that this is just for very shiny (smooth) objects, since raytracing rough stuff sucks.

First you have the extra step of building an acceleration structure for your scene. This is the part I'm least sure about -- it's not clear how much memory this takes or how fast it is to build.

I assume it's going to be based on whatever they're doing for Optix, so it's "fast enough" for a limited number of dynamic objects, but this means that each ray has to traverse essentially a static bvh and a dynamic one.

Second you're going to have to have to shade the point that you hit for your specular ray. This means that somehow you'll have to have your materials set up so that you can tell by the triangle id what material it is, and by the material id which textures to sample from in order to shade the point. Or, maybe, you can do sneakier SSR and just reproject the hit point onto the screen and see if that works.
Not sure that'll be faster than modern SSR techniques though.

Lastly, now you have a very noisy specular image and will need to denoise it. NVIDIA has a denoiser in their gameworks, and I assume most demos are using that, but you'll still have to hook it up.

That makes sense, material ids and ray impact-based shading causes noise due to the high precision-based lighting technique, leaving gaps outside the projected rays. So would that mean having baked lighting paired with raytracing result in a "better" lighting scenario since the baked lighting can mask some of the noise? Combine that with the built-in gameworks denoiser to clean things up

345 · Aug 20, 2018

Anthony Hopkins said:
It may effect multiple aspects, but it does not affect polycount, texture quality and animation.

what would affect those things other than a linear increase in power and time spent in development? any game can have sharper textures or higher poly counts today — there are too many variables to consider anything like that a "next-gen" feature.

the kind of ray tracing nvidia just showed off literally isn't possible on current-gen hardware. what could be a better indicator of "next-gen" than that?

that said, console CPUs are so hugely far behind right now that the biggest next-gen indicator will probably be that. it'll raise the bar for what can be done on PC significantly.

Nirolak · Aug 20, 2018

Yes, in the same sense that NVIDIA PhysX features were clearly next-gen, but much like those, early implementations vary wildly in noticeability and quality.

z0m3le · Aug 20, 2018

Nostremitus said:
AMD already has real time Ray Tracing, the Vulkan Implementation is called Radeon Rays, ~~but not for consumer level workloads or GPUs~~. But then, Nvidia didn't until today. If Navi cards really are powered by clusters of 7nm Navi GPUs sharing a die using infinity fabric as an interconnect and on-die HBM, like the GPU equivalent of Zen but without the interconnect speed hampered by DDR4 speeds and latencies, it's possible AMD could bring their own variant of real time Ray tracing to the consumer level as well.

At least, that's the only way I see AMD surviving and not going bankrupt once Intel GPUs hit. If they can't pull it off, Radeon will most likely go away.

Edit: Correction, apparently Radeon Ray's is a Vulkan Open Source implementation. There's a game coming out this year that uses Radeon Rays for real time Ray tracing on Radeon GPUs. Apparently the way Radeon cards handle asynchronous compute allows them to crunch the rays better than Nvidia's non-RTX GPUs? But I still expect it to be a resource hog on current Radeon GPUs.

When does Doom Eternal come out?
https://wccftech.com/amds-open-source-vulkan-ray-tracing-engine-debuting-in-games-this-year/amp/

AMD does Ray tracing better than pascal sure, but the RTX 2070 does it 5 times better than a GTX 1080ti, AMD has to prove that they can do it, until then, we have to be sceptical of its performance. Pascal for instance can do the starwars demo at about 3fps.

What is going to be possible for next gen consoles here? I doubt that AMD will have real-time ray tracing at 60fps in their highest end cards, that won't translate well to consoles using a mid range version of those high end cards. The Nvidia cards here at 18 billion transistors. To put that into perspective, AMD's Epyc CPU is 19 Billion, we won't see this sort of performance next gen.

Nirolak said:
Yes, in the same sense that NVIDIA PhysX features were clearly next-gen, but much like those, early implementations vary wildly in noticeability and quality.

The difference is that Raytracing builds on existing implementation of rendering systems, mainly physically based rendering. If the game knows what is metals, glass, wood, etc. It is pretty much automatic to turn on raytracing.

Nostremitus · Aug 20, 2018

z0m3le said:
AMD does Ray tracing better than pascal sure, but the RTX 2070 does it 5 times better than a GTX 1080ti, AMD has to prove that they can do it, until then, we have to be sceptical of its performance. Pascal for instance can do the starwars demo at about 6fps.

What is going to be possible for next gen consoles here? I doubt that AMD will have real-time ray tracing at 60fps in their highest end cards, that won't translate well to consoles using a mid range version of those high end cards. The Nvidia cards here at 18 billion transistors. To put that into perspective, AMD's Epyc CPU is 19 Billion, we won't see this sort of performance next gen.

I completely agree. Which is why I mentioned that I expect it to be a resource hog on current AMD GPUs.

Also, I didn't say it'd be a good fit for consoles. I was talking about PC games.

z0m3le · Aug 20, 2018

Nostremitus said:
I completely agree. Which is why I mentioned that I expect it to be a resource hog on current AMD GPUs.

Also, I didn't say it'd be a good fit for consoles.

This is what I'm looking at. Next gen consoles release in probably 2 years, and PC will be a full generation ahead of them if Raytracing becomes regular part of gaming, and with how easy it is to just turn on, I don't see a reason why it won't tbh.

Anthony Hopkins · Aug 20, 2018

345 said:
what would affect those things other than a linear increase in power and time spent in development? any game can have sharper textures or higher poly counts today — there are too many variables to consider anything like that a "next-gen" feature.

the kind of ray tracing nvidia just showed off literally isn't possible on current-gen hardware. what could be a better indicator of "next-gen" than that?

that said, console CPUs are so hugely far behind right now that the biggest next-gen indicator will probably be that. it'll raise the bar for what can be done on PC significantly.

Depends how you define "next gen", but as Ive already said to me "next gen" means the leap of visuals we see every new console generation.

Otherwise using your logic TLOU2 is next gen because its using next gen animation..right? Or that PS4 ghosts of T game developed a next gen leaf tech..is that next gen too?
You say any game can have higher polycounts today? Well gears 4 vs gears 5 or UC4 vs TLOU2 might 5-15% more polys but a new generation of consoles will have 200 - 500% more polys , theres quite a difference.

Also Im willing to bet that battlefield 7 or 8 or whatever the first one leaving ps4 and x1 behind will look far better then battlefield 5 with RTX enabled.

Nostremitus · Aug 20, 2018

z0m3le said:
This is what I'm looking at. Next gen consoles release in probably 2 years, and PC will be a full generation ahead of them if Raytracing becomes regular part of gaming, and with how easy it is to just turn on, I don't see a reason why it won't tbh.

Too bad it won't help developers yet since they'll still have to prebake everything anyway unless they want to alienate the majority of the market.

copelandmaster · Aug 20, 2018

Yes. Consoles aren't doing anything like this.

Oracle · Aug 20, 2018

No.

To me the tech is not impressive. When I see it in game/demos it looks to me as an advancement in a developers game engine. Like, as if a new game came out and the devs are showing it off with some new reworked engine tech that enhances reflections. It does not look like a 1000$ next gen upgrade. I am not excited for it in the least. Sure its an improvement but to me its like changing the shadow quality from "high" to "ultra", sure its better but its forgettable.

Deleted member 32374 · Aug 20, 2018

Oh god yes.

Ray tracing is the end game to real time graphics.

Now we all look to see if next gen consoles have any ray tracing...

z0m3le · Aug 20, 2018

Nostremitus said:
Too bad it won't help developers yet since they'll still have to prebake everything anyway unless they want to alienate the majority of the market.

Except that all Raytracing requires is PBR, which has been an industry standard for this entire generation. It's literally implemented via the engine itself. The spread of games goes beyond just Unreal Engine 4 btw. I can see this quickly being adopted for PC settings.

Oracle said:
No.

To me the tech is not impressive. When I see it in game/demos it looks to me as an advancement in a developers game engine. Like, as if a new game came out and the devs are showing it off with some new reworked engine tech that enhances reflections. It does not look like a 1000$ next gen upgrade. I am not excited for it in the least. Sure its an improvement but to me its like changing the shadow quality from "high" to "ultra", sure its better but its forgettable.

It's fundamentally different than what has been used before. It's real lighting simulation, and it works just like our eyes, so it's pretty much the end game for lighting in games.

Anthony Hopkins · Aug 20, 2018

Oracle said:
No.

To me the tech is not impressive. When I see it in game/demos it looks to me as an advancement in a developers game engine. Like, as if a new game came out and the devs are showing it off with some new reworked engine tech that enhances reflections. It does not look like a 1000$ next gen upgrade. I am not excited for it in the least. Sure its an improvement but to me its like changing the shadow quality from "high" to "ultra", sure its better but its forgettable.

Yes, I agree.

Deleted member 29909 · Aug 20, 2018

Probably more like next-next gen in the console space.

Nostremitus · Aug 20, 2018

z0m3le said:
Except that all Raytracing requires is PBR, which has been an industry standard for this entire generation. It's literally implemented via the engine itself. The spread of games goes beyond just Unreal Engine 4 btw. I can see this quickly being adopted for PC settings.

I agree, but just because it becomes an option doesn't mean devs can just stop manually creating pre baked lighting for those who don't have GPUs capable of real time ray tracing. Otherwise your options would be Ray Tracing or no lighting or shadows at all.

bbq of doom · Aug 20, 2018

I couldn't imagine watching the various trailers and demos earlier today and calling it anything but the future.

Vulcano's Assistant · Aug 20, 2018

The biggest impact will be on how developers will be allowed to create and iterate. Real time raytracing is the holy grail of photo-realism in graphics because simulating reality is offloaded to the computer. Even the less tech savy devs will become cinematographers when they are allowed to play with light to that degree without having to reinvent the wheel to mimic every different behavior of light. It's not only about shadows, and reflections, it is the next step for PBR materials, Sub Surface Scattering, Caustics, transparent materials, and Ambient Occlusion.

Kalik · Aug 20, 2018

can't ambient occlusion (VXAO) depict the same types of shadows and reflections?

Arulan · Aug 20, 2018

Real-time ray tracing is without a doubt a significant step forward in graphics technology. One that has been described as the holy grail of real-time graphics for years.

We could do without the obvious platform war comments.

Pagusas · Aug 20, 2018

The minute we see a Cyberpunk ray trace demo, is the minute every single person goes out and buys an RTX card

z0m3le · Aug 20, 2018

Arulan said:
Real-time ray tracing is without a doubt a significant step forward in graphics technology. One that has been described as the holy grail of real-time graphics for years.

We could do without the obvious platform war comments.

Sorry if it comes off that way, but it's a historical precedent, we have never seen such a leap in graphics that didn't translate to consoles within a couple years. It's as if 3D games had been on PC and 3D consoles didn't exist until 1999. Obviously, consoles will continue to improve graphics, but when people show off their games at E3, if there is a PC version, they will be able to show off Ray Tracing in their gameplay demos, meanwhile console games will look flat. Just think about the PS6 and TLOU3 having real-time lighting like this. It's not about console waring, it's about the leap in graphics this represents.

KayonXaikyre · Aug 20, 2018

When people start fully taking advantage of it from the ground up and making their games based upon the system it's going to look insane. Some of it already does. I wonder though does this mean that the next Xbox and Playstation will basically be locked out of it since they aren't using Nvidia? To me this feels like once it gets going its going to leave them a generation behind at launch if they don't have their own solution that does something like this lol.

Zedelima · Aug 20, 2018

Yep, and i think it will take a few more is to be widly used.

low-G · Aug 20, 2018

Kalik said:
can't ambient occlusion (VXAO) depict the same types of shadows and reflections?

VXAO can only do occlusion, which raytracing can do much better. VXAO doesn't handle the shadows, which raytracing can handle using the same math as AO.

copelandmaster · Aug 20, 2018

Kalik said:
can't ambient occlusion (VXAO) depict the same types of shadows and reflections?

VXAO is just a high quality ambient occlusion technique - no shadows, no GI, no reflections.

Pagusas said:
The minute we see a Cyberpunk ray trace demo, is the minute every single person goes out and buys an RTX card

Yep. Everybody hems and haws, until their personal favorite shows up to the party. The current pricing still sucks, really.

joylevel11 · Aug 20, 2018

It's impressive but until all games use it then no. It's an Nvidia thing. It's one of those settings that you'll only be able to use if you have a powerful enough Nvidia GPU. What happens if you have an AMD GPU or playing on console?

devSin · Aug 20, 2018

KayonXaikyre said:
I wonder though does this mean that the next Xbox and Playstation will basically be locked out of it since they aren't using Nvidia? To me this feels like once it gets going its going to leave them a generation behind at launch if they don't have their own solution that does something like this lol.

No, because games are targeted for consoles and their specific capabilities.

If the consoles don't support it, it won't be used in any worthwhile capacity (it will just be another Nvidia gimmick that gets slapped on to the eventual PC port with little thought as to how it affects the intended presentation).

Would you consider the Raytracing tech the RTX 20XX series have as "Next Gen"?

Raytracing = Next Gen

Yes

No

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