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Would you consider the Raytracing tech the RTX 20XX series have as "Next Gen"?
- Thread starter spad3
- Start date
I mean, it looks better but people here I am talking this is the biggest leap ever for real time graphics and when looking at those 2 pics on OP I can only think the second one has some shinier reflections... and that is it.
OP
OP
It's not just "shiny-ness" it's how the light behaves when bouncing off objects. This allows for a deeper level of realism for visuals because now animators and artists can literally use a light source as if it was an actual light rather than resorting to parlor tricks to simulate real-life light. It's game-changing technology.
From a technology point of view Ray Tracing will open the door to greater IQ in games down the line. However, my concern stems from the fact that the average consumer/gamer might not see the immediate difference and by that token, not be immediately impressed. New hardware takes some impressive bells and whistles to get people to upgrade and if this had been the tech demos to get people excited for the next phase of console gaming, I suspect some might not be that ready to "Jump In".
OP
OP
Agreed to a degree (bold), but the thing is raytracing will be one of the core technologies that will help games look more "realistic" and inch closer to the uncanny valley.
Honestly we kinda already have all the tech to make hyper-realistic games, just a matter of putting them together.
Facial animation from Netherrealm Studios (Injustice 2)
Environment design from Ubisoft (Assassin's Creed series)
Interior design from Naughty Dog (Uncharted 4)
AI from IO Interactive (Hitman/Hitman 2)
Ragdoll Physics from Rockstar (GTA V/RDR2)
Game Physics from Valve (Half-Life 2)
Character Models from Naughty Dog (Uncharted 4)
Animation from Guerrilla Games (Horizon Zero Dawn)
Combine tech and talent from all those companies and you can get pretty fucking close to real-life visuals.
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Microsoft are behind this too with their DirectX Raytracing API. They wouldn't bother extending their graphics API for an Nvidia-exclusive gimmick. Expect AMD's and Intel's implementations of DXR to appear on the market soon.
OP
OP
Of course, AMD already has their version named out (Radeon Rays), Intel forsure will be including similar tech in their GPUs.
And yeah DXR is gonna be huge for Microsoft, especially in their AR space with Hololens.
This is misinformation - tessellation in c2 dpes not work like thaz.
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RT is "next gen" - you argue otherwise xou are arguing against the trends and desire of graphics programming since its dawn.
Also arguing that it is not all these other things like AI or animation or LOD is so silly. My goodness.
It also is not a step back since it is fixed function - why do we need a flexible programmable step for the BVH acceleration for ray hits and scatter? That is the part that needs to be simple and is the part that makes it feasible in real time.
RT IS nextgen. There is no way around that. It is a super marvelous technology to have hardware accelerated realtime RayTracing with a hybrid rendering pipeline. It is doing things you can't accomplish with the current way of how scenes are rendered.
It is totally noticeable even in fast games as you gain immense more rendered details in reflections. It adds so much to the scene that, for example, all windows get correctly lid from explosions that aren't in the viewport.
But, without offense, this step in technology might be hard to grasp for the casual consumer. As people define consoles as nextgen that are a whole generation behind actual PC GPUs when they are released. People might have a different focus for technology they admire but what Turing is doing is a wonderful piece of technology.
It is totally noticeable even in fast games as you gain immense more rendered details in reflections. It adds so much to the scene that, for example, all windows get correctly lid from explosions that aren't in the viewport.
But, without offense, this step in technology might be hard to grasp for the casual consumer. As people define consoles as nextgen that are a whole generation behind actual PC GPUs when they are released. People might have a different focus for technology they admire but what Turing is doing is a wonderful piece of technology.
I think it's important to couch these upgrades in a way that is gameplay relevant and not simply "it'll look better", especially when selling it as a "next-gen" feature. The example I've heard a few times now is because reflections and shadows are no longer limited to being simply screen-space, in a competitive game you can now have a situation where you walk into a room with a mirror, see an enemy behind you in the reflection of the mirror, and react accordingly. For me, this is what is exciting, far more-so than simply more realistic shadows or reflections, and feels like a generational leap forward rather than a single, new graphical gimmick.
RT was always the way to go. I'm glad that NV wants to take this route and I hope that AMD will bring out a similar architecture to push RT out to the gamers.
If that means the same price increase as the Nvidia cards: no thank you. If giving up RT in certain cards is necessary to get them at reasonable prices again I will happily make that concession.
That's not what I was talking about. I was only talking about the technology, not the price. The Price is ridiculous.
Raytracing is the way forward. But right now they are rendering them in such a low resolution that it's hardly considered an upgrade.
The showcased Tomb Raider shadows for instance: those are accurated shadows, but due to the low resolution the shadows have to be blurred heavily (unless you want to see some nasty aliased shit). The shadow fall-off is correct, but they should've been way sharper at the base of the object that is casting the shadow. That's why it's looking 'off'. You can see it in the Battlefield reflections as well; they are technically correct, but they are too soft/low res for the rest of the (rasterized) picture.
Ofcourse these are the first steps to something incredible, but Nvidia is dipping its toe in the pool of the future right now and makes it look not great in my opinion. Once we are raytracing not only shadows and reflections, but all passes, then we can safely say it's rendering at photorealistic levels. To be able to do that at a native 1080p resolution is going to take some decades still, I'm afraid.
The showcased Tomb Raider shadows for instance: those are accurated shadows, but due to the low resolution the shadows have to be blurred heavily (unless you want to see some nasty aliased shit). The shadow fall-off is correct, but they should've been way sharper at the base of the object that is casting the shadow. That's why it's looking 'off'. You can see it in the Battlefield reflections as well; they are technically correct, but they are too soft/low res for the rest of the (rasterized) picture.
Ofcourse these are the first steps to something incredible, but Nvidia is dipping its toe in the pool of the future right now and makes it look not great in my opinion. Once we are raytracing not only shadows and reflections, but all passes, then we can safely say it's rendering at photorealistic levels. To be able to do that at a native 1080p resolution is going to take some decades still, I'm afraid.
With the comparison in the OP...most modern games don't produce the effects seen in the first ('RTX off') and stop there.
They'll employ cheaper, typically non-dynamic solutions to achieve the extra effects in the second ('RTX on'). Lightmaps, light probes etc.
So an RTX on/off comparison like that is a bit simplistic. It's dialling down the results you can get without raytracing.
Ray traced effects can be dynamic & simple and higher quality. But there's a question about at what point those advantages are worth the performance cost. Eventually, of course, we'll have so much power that it just makes sense to do things simply and elegantly with ray and path tracing approaches.
Will we see judicious use coupled with cheaper solutions next-gen? Yes, I'm sure. But I think for many games, cheaper alternatives will give better visual bang-for-buck for quite a while. It'll be a while before we can throw ray-traced solutions around with abandon, not next-gen.
They'll employ cheaper, typically non-dynamic solutions to achieve the extra effects in the second ('RTX on'). Lightmaps, light probes etc.
So an RTX on/off comparison like that is a bit simplistic. It's dialling down the results you can get without raytracing.
Ray traced effects can be dynamic & simple and higher quality. But there's a question about at what point those advantages are worth the performance cost. Eventually, of course, we'll have so much power that it just makes sense to do things simply and elegantly with ray and path tracing approaches.
Will we see judicious use coupled with cheaper solutions next-gen? Yes, I'm sure. But I think for many games, cheaper alternatives will give better visual bang-for-buck for quite a while. It'll be a while before we can throw ray-traced solutions around with abandon, not next-gen.
To me it feels pretty next gen and is very striking even with the early implementations in current games so games designed around ray tracing or renders accounting for it I think we will see some very impressive results, one of the main ones will just be clean shadows at any distance for multiple light sources for hopefully minimal performance impact.
That said I still think that is a good few years off and another generation of cards to be classed somewhat mainstream even then it will be a high-end feature like how 4k was a few years back before the Pro/X. So maybe not something you'll see a lot of over the next few years or in the next generation of consoles but the Pro version of those models it will be a bigger deal and the results should stand out as much as normal maps, tessellation and AO have matured over time.
I think that is going to be amplified with the recent year switch over to physical based materials which are rather next gen to me anyways! Always impressed when materials are done well, so add to that ray tracing and hopefully minimal work for art teams games will start looking mighty impressive.
That said I still think that is a good few years off and another generation of cards to be classed somewhat mainstream even then it will be a high-end feature like how 4k was a few years back before the Pro/X. So maybe not something you'll see a lot of over the next few years or in the next generation of consoles but the Pro version of those models it will be a bigger deal and the results should stand out as much as normal maps, tessellation and AO have matured over time.
I think that is going to be amplified with the recent year switch over to physical based materials which are rather next gen to me anyways! Always impressed when materials are done well, so add to that ray tracing and hopefully minimal work for art teams games will start looking mighty impressive.
I mean, it's more "next-next-gen" tbh. The impact it can have on reflections, illumination and shadow can not be overtstated compared to what we've got today.
Tomb Raider, Battlefield, and Metro only show off one aspect each. But in the future we'll get improved versions of all of it combined. And the results should be awesome.
Personally, I'm most excited about reflections. Because screen space effects can be so distracting and unprecise I'd often prefer cube-maps.
Tomb Raider, Battlefield, and Metro only show off one aspect each. But in the future we'll get improved versions of all of it combined. And the results should be awesome.
Personally, I'm most excited about reflections. Because screen space effects can be so distracting and unprecise I'd often prefer cube-maps.
Yes it is. A lot of developers are already using raytracing/raycasting for lighting calculations.
There will be some AI/Raytracing core in next gen consoles. AI is huge now and even higher managers know it - they may not how it works but they know it generates buzz and money. Even if it's not that useful, it will be put into consoles for marketing reasons.
There will be some AI/Raytracing core in next gen consoles. AI is huge now and even higher managers know it - they may not how it works but they know it generates buzz and money. Even if it's not that useful, it will be put into consoles for marketing reasons.