Writer Dan Slott talks about Spider-Man's "Instant-Kill Mode" (all MCU Spoilers)

Oct 25, 2017
6,423
Atlanta GA
I thought it was played as a 'He's not fucking around' moment for Spider-Man, not so much as a joke.
It was one of those moments you see in the other Avengers movies where things start to get a bit overwhelming and you can see that if something doesnt turn theyre about to lose the fight. This is illustrated with some close calls leading up to the final moment with Thanos and Iron Man. Rocket and Groot almost get blasted to shit by rocket fire, other Avengers are getting beaten up. Peter has to resort to killing. That's how bad things were getting before Iron Man saved everyone.
 

Caspah

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,965
Graveyard in Boston
I'm glad Slot is off Spider-Man, tbh. A lot of the stuff he wrote was attention grabbing and brought new people to the books, but he would almost always write himself into corners and then come up with the most contrived ways out.
 
Apr 14, 2018
2,466
Would be nice if some of the future MCU films reminded you of how shitty Stark was as a person sometimes but that’s probably out the window now.
It felt like they were leading to that in Far From Home with the montage of people he wronged. But nah.

On the killing thing, I do remember not liking it but decided it was wish fulfillment for nerds and not malicious
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,183
A callback to a joke from Homecoming 'ha ha Pete's suit has a super OTT Instant Kill mode!' played off in a joking way is a joke. It doesn't need, like, an extra quip.

At the very least, it was an 'extremely short scene' that was given no gravity whatsoever... Which Spider-Man choosing to use lethal violence should not be.
Except it wasn't played off in a "joking way". It literally just happens as they were a threat that needed to be quickly dealt, and then the movie moves on. I'm just not gonna agree with you on that one.

As for it needing to have gravity, I completely disagree given what he was killing, the idea that those creatures are something Peter should torture himself over... I can't get behind that lol

I'm more bothered that Peter would be fine with a "Kill Mode" installed into his suit.
Well it's not like he had the time to take it out lol



Spidey isn't the type of guy to murder anonymous henchmen on a battlefield.
These creatures are portrayed as being less than henchmen.
 

Breqesk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Would be nice if some of the future MCU films reminded you of how shitty Stark was as a person sometimes but that’s probably out the window now.
That's the weird thing, y'know?

Like, Far From Home features a Stark killsat and all-encompassing surveillance system that puts Batman's sonar phone thingy from The Dark Knight to shame... But Peter has no issue with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, seemingly? Like, Mysterio gets hold of it and that's presented as a bad thing, but the film doesn't actually seem to take any issue with the fact that Stark built it in the first place, and Peter still has access to most of it - all the surveillance stuff at least - as of the end of the movie.

Like I genuinely thought they were gonna build up to some big, 'Pete breaks the glasses; no one should have this power' moment, sorta like when Alfred types in his name and the sonar system self-destructs... But they never did.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
35,618
Ddifferent universe, different rules

 

Critch

Member
Dec 10, 2017
658
Eh, no kill rule is dumb anyway. I have zero problem with anyone defending their life, especially if they're also defending the fate of the world/universe/family/etc. It's an outdated concept. Not to mention that this Parker hasn't really stated one way or the other his thoughts about killing.

I used to be strict about Batman and all of that, but honestly it makes zero sense for someone to let someone live who is actively and repeatedly trying to kill you, and even if captured cannot be held, will escape, and kill several other people.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
35,618
I love Slott, but I can't ride with him on this.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,165
Imagine thinking that defending yourself from an army being controlled by a guy who just said he wants to wipe out all life in the universe isn't enough to take the kid gloves off.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
there is an argument to be made on why Peter hasn't removed it yet but I can accept that he just never bothered. Peter getting used to the iron spider suit was mostly all off screen.
When would he have removed it? Tony gave him the Iron Spider suit on a rocket ship to Thanos' planet. He was snapped for five years. He comes back and is in the same suit.
 

Iceman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
504
Alhambra, CA
Growing up with Spidey.. I kinda agree with Slott here. Moreover, the big crossover events like Secret Wars/Infinity War/Gauntlet, I always treated as alternate universe side stories, Marvel borrowing Spidey for their big events because he was their biggest icon. I never thought of those stories as canon to Spidey's more personal, mainline series stories. (Personally I regarded Amazing as the only canon series of Spider-man stories, and Web and Spectacular also as alternate universes). So if there was any killing going on in those alternate histories they never affected how I understood the character. Bringing the symbiote into the Amazing Spider-man universe did blur the lines for me some, but still, Peter Parker from the Amazing storyline is a guy that wouldn't kill unless pushed to the absolute extreme -- it would have to be so personal a case (like revenge if Mary Jane died.. and maybe ONLY in that case) that ultimately it would break him psychologically as a character forever. It's just not in him.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,650
This is such a stupid take. Is Uncle Ben Pa Kent from Man of Steel? Peter wasn't killing Hydra soldiers or mowing down a Kree army. Infinity War went out of its way to show that the Outriders were mindless genetic weapons used for cannon fodder. They were literally tearing themselves apart to get into Wakanda.


Peter will kill when forced. The audience may have laughed at the scene but he wasn't making jokes in the moment.

 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,165
there is an argument to be made on why Peter hasn't removed it yet but I can accept that he just never bothered. Peter getting used to the iron spider suit was mostly all off screen.
For all we know he did remove it from his normal suit. He never had a chance to with the Iron Spider suit.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,281
He was losing the fight. The Avengers were losing the fight. That was the point of the scene, showing Peter resort to fatal violence was to show how desperate of a situation it was when Iron Man turned the tide. It wasn't meant to be some badass thing it was meant to show how badly they were about to lose. Having Peter be able to knock an entire wave of swarming outriders out wouldn't have worked there.
It’s all down to how it’s written
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,423
Atlanta GA
there is an argument to be made on why Peter hasn't removed it yet but I can accept that he just never bothered. Peter getting used to the iron spider suit was mostly all off screen.
No there is not. Peter died the day he got the suit. He got de-blipped five years later and immediately got dropped into a desperate fight for the universe where he actually needed the Instant Kill Mode to survive.

It’s all down to how it’s written
Then why isn't anyone who is saying that coming up with some other, better way to write the scene?
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
35,618
Imagine thinking that defending yourself from an army being controlled by a guy who just said he wants to wipe out all life in the universe isn't enough to take the kid gloves off.
pretty much

I also think it's just a concession that movies will have to make to heighten the stakes. you can't just punch dudes a couple of times and have them be "beaten" while also conveying the gravity of what's at stake
And it was fucking Outriders, literatlly designed and grown in a vat to hunt and kill
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,842
England
This reminds me of Injustice when Superman blows up all the Parademons, and Batman throws a fit.

I... actually like that.

One thing that I see a lot with the relationship between Batman and Superman is that they see each other as two sides of the same coin - Superman exists to inspire others and Batman exists to terrify them.

So while it's okay for Batman to be "bad", Superman can't be. The world follows where Superman goes and if the most powerful of us goes bad, don't we all?
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,551
I mean, that would also suck, but I definitely think it was intended as a jokey callback.
I'm not sure I get why it would suck.

I think rabid alien space beasts is quite removed from not wanting to let anyone die because the death of his uncle (and Captain Stacy, and Gwen Stacy...) weigh heavily on his conscience.

I thought the pragmatism of it was in character for Peter Parker. It wasn't his first resort, or something done gleefully. He's in a war for the fate of the universe against mindless creatures that can't be negotiated with. Killing them is like being OK with the idea of destroying the Elementals.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,307
When would he have removed it? Tony gave him the Iron Spider suit on a rocket ship to Thanos' planet. He was snapped for five years. He comes back and is in the same suit.
For all we know he did remove it from his normal suit. He never had a chance to with the Iron Spider suit.
No there is not. Peter died the day he got the suit. He got de-blipped five years later and immediately got dropped into a desperate fight for the universe where he actually needed the Instant Kill Mode to survive.
Oh crap, for some reason i had it in my head that he got it at the end of Homecoming.
 

Breqesk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Remember at the end of FFH when he still has the police state glasses just because Tony made them. Good times.
Yahhhhhh.... To quote myself from earlier:

Like, Far From Home features a Stark killsat and all-encompassing surveillance system that puts Batman's sonar phone thingy from The Dark Knight to shame... But Peter has no issue with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, seemingly? Like, Mysterio gets hold of it and that's presented as a bad thing, but the film doesn't actually seem to take any issue with the fact that Stark built it in the first place, and Peter still has access to most of it - all the surveillance stuff at least - as of the end of the movie.

Like I genuinely thought they were gonna build up to some big, 'Pete breaks the glasses; no one should have this power' moment, sorta like when Alfred types in his name and the sonar system self-destructs... But they never did.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
17,212
That's the weird thing, y'know?

Like, Far From Home features a Stark killsat and all-encompassing surveillance system that puts Batman's sonar phone thingy from The Dark Knight to shame... But Peter has no issue with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, seemingly? Like, Mysterio gets hold of it and that's presented as a bad thing, but the film doesn't actually seem to take any issue with the fact that Stark built it in the first place, and Peter still has access to most of it - all the surveillance stuff at least - as of the end of the movie.

Like I genuinely thought they were gonna build up to some big, 'Pete breaks the glasses; no one should have this power' moment, sorta like when Alfred types in his name and the sonar system self-destructs... But they never did.
Yeah this is a much more eloquent take than me and I agree 100%
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,896
Lmao, of course people are making a mountain out of a molehill with regard to a funny joke in a comic book movie. No fun allowed.

It's not like Peter decided to take out random civilians because he got tired of waiting in line for ice cream. Chill the fuck out, god damn.
 

ElBoxyBrown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,063
I... actually like that.

One thing that I see a lot with the relationship between Batman and Superman is that they see each other as two sides of the same coin - Superman exists to inspire others and Batman exists to terrify them.

So while it's okay for Batman to be "bad", Superman can't be. The world follows where Superman goes and if the most powerful of us goes bad, don't we all?
It's never ok for Batman to kill. The big 3 do not kill. There are exceptions and those exceptions are heavily scrutinized as much as this.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,650
Peter: "Uncle Ben these aliens are going to kill me and destroy all live in the universe. What should I do?"
Ben: "
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,171
Kansas
This scene was fine. There are 3 things that are clear to me.

1) Stark included "Insta-Kill" as a last resort to protect a literal child from death. The suit was designed to let the AI do the best to save his life if necessary, because Tony didn't want to live with a dead kid on his conscious.

2) Peter doesn't want to use it, as is made clear in Homecoming. He doesn't *want* to kill, and I think that's the important thing to remember.

3) These weren't sentient, intelligent aliens. They are beasts trying to rip him apart and help destroy the entire universe as they knew it. Insta-kill was justified in this very specific situation.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,768
I’m sure if Peter just asked nicely they would have stopped trying to tear him limb from limb
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,423
Atlanta GA
yeah even comics outriders have more agency than MCU version. Rocket called it, they're literally rabid space dogs

Lmao, of course people are making a mountain out of a molehill with regard to a funny joke in a comic book movie. No fun allowed.

It's not like Peter decided to take out random civilians because he got tired of waiting in line for ice cream. Chill the fuck out, god damn.
People keep saying this but the moment isn't intended as a joke. It was Serious Peter Mode Engaged, when he doesn't quip or joke he's just all business. He was desperate to not be mauled to death by space monsters, and it was a moment intended to show how overwhelmed even the full might of the Avengers and their allies were against Thanos' great army. It has even more weight as a suitable moment to be using Instant Kill Mode than if it was just done as a joke.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,842
England
Yahhhhhh.... To quote myself from earlier:

Like, Far From Home features a Stark killsat and all-encompassing surveillance system that puts Batman's sonar phone thingy from The Dark Knight to shame... But Peter has no issue with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, seemingly? Like, Mysterio gets hold of it and that's presented as a bad thing, but the film doesn't actually seem to take any issue with the fact that Stark built it in the first place, and Peter still has access to most of it - all the surveillance stuff at least - as of the end of the movie.

Like I genuinely thought they were gonna build up to some big, 'Pete breaks the glasses; no one should have this power' moment, sorta like when Alfred types in his name and the sonar system self-destructs... But they never did.
I don't think that's the last we'll see of it.

There's no way that folks like Rhodey don't have access to EDITH and it raises a lot of very serious questions just for existing because Stark must have made it after The Snap. So in those five years, he didn't just make powerful new suits for himself and Pepper but a drone system with extremely high firepower?

Maybe they'll explain all this stuff in another movie, considering the implications of a guy that turned his back on the world so he could apparently focus on building weapons.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,650
That's the weird thing, y'know?

Like, Far From Home features a Stark killsat and all-encompassing surveillance system that puts Batman's sonar phone thingy from The Dark Knight to shame... But Peter has no issue with it whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, seemingly? Like, Mysterio gets hold of it and that's presented as a bad thing, but the film doesn't actually seem to take any issue with the fact that Stark built it in the first place, and Peter still has access to most of it - all the surveillance stuff at least - as of the end of the movie.

Like I genuinely thought they were gonna build up to some big, 'Pete breaks the glasses; no one should have this power' moment, sorta like when Alfred types in his name and the sonar system self-destructs... But they never did.
All the best versions of Spider-Man are pro police state. You take the good with the bad.