Should there be a new OT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 462 53.5%
  • No

    Votes: 402 46.5%

  • Total voters
    864

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,859
I don't expect a handheld at all. There's no reason to release one since it'll be going against either the Switch or the Steam Deck, which are more attractive and more settled options.
Except those two can't play the last 20 years of Xbox games, and the Deck still doesn't offer a true console experience. And the docked experience on Deck is still pretty meh.

I don't see how releasing a handheld would be the demise of Xbox. If the Steam Deck can sell a couple of million units and be considered a success, so could a Xbox handheld.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,962
8dae297d40a43ef6910a73cfa692df05.png


Take this kind of poll with the most amount of salt you could possibly imagine as it's extremely far from actual market analysis, but I have to imagine the "I would switch to play COD on game pass" crowd is in the single digits if actually surveyed.
Honestly going off the COD Subreddit, id say that the older CODs remaining accessible and being all on Game Pass would convince some to switch just as much as new COD being on Game Pass day one.

Also interesting is the 25% who play on PC, how many might sub to Game Pass instead of buying the games yearly.

But also I doubt that COD actually does much for Xbox until next gen launches, and even then it'll only do well for Xbox if they heavily market Game Pass and the Xbox brand
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,069
Then what is your proposal?
Just make good games. Invest in exclusives, whether timed or permanent. Enter in partnerships with studios to develop games for you, whether they're big or small.

I find Phil's stance of "even if you make great games people won't come" absurd and defeatist. You gotta give people a reason to buy your console and stick to it, and that's only done with great exclusives that release often. There's a reason why people remember the 360 fondly, and it's because they had great games coming out constantly in all genres, from all countries (at least until they started to focus on Kinect too much).

Of course, I don't have any of the data MS has. I'm just talking as an outsider. Maybe they're doomed with every decision they've done since they started working on One, but so many of these rumors seem so bad.

Except those two can't play the last 20 years of Xbox games, and the Deck still doesn't offer a true console experience. And the docked experience on Deck is still pretty meh.

I don't see how releasing a handheld would be the demise of Xbox. If the Steam Deck can sell a couple of million units and be considered a success, so could a Xbox handheld.
It's not the demise of Xbox, but it'd be a waste of investment time and money. You gotta add another device for developers to port to, on top of both Series and the next-gen one. That's a mess for developers that already dread having to work with the Series S. And how would they get a playerbase outside of their current Xbox audience if they can't offer anything the Switch 2 or the Steam Deck has, given that PC ports are not gonna stop, and Project Latitude is a go? It just seems like they'd see Switch being successful while not understanding why Switch is selling like that.
 

Vico

Member
Jan 3, 2018
6,672
Don't feel great about the tiers rumors. I can see them messing it up badly. You have to provide a value so people stay subbed. Not sure that the crossing $20 monthly is a good idea. The benefit of Gamepass is that for MP games it instantly gives you a large user base (CoD doesn't have this problem). People are already more interested in PS so it will be hard to pull them into GP. Flip side is it could be a great deal and because of the sales differential it only being on GP may not hurt them too bad.

I'm also worried about the latest rumours.
I thought it'd be just a price hike of 2$ for each tier or something, but the example of removing day one games for Game Pass PC just to push people to Ultimate sounds horrible and would actually kill any growth they may have on PC.

But hey, at the same time it wouldn't be surprising to see yet another mistake from Xbox that undermines everything they were set to do.

And they rarely learn.
 

Bede-x

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,877
Except those two can't play the last 20 years of Xbox games, and the Deck still doesn't offer a true console experience. And the docked experience on Deck is still pretty meh.

I would love a handheld that could play my Xbox library. Steam Deck is an amazing device - best handheld ever - but it doesn't play all the games I bought on Xbox. That would be the reason for the Xbox handheld.
 

pg2g

Member
Dec 18, 2018
5,141
Just make good games. Invest in exclusives, whether timed or permanent. Enter in partnerships with studios to develop games for you, whether they're big or small.

So continue with business as usual on the hardware side? Think they are already pivoting on the software side of things and the hardware has to pivot accordingly as well.
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
Just make good games. Invest in exclusives, whether timed or permanent. Enter in partnerships with studios to develop games for you, whether they're big or small.

I find Phil's stance of "even if you make great games people won't come" absurd and defeatist. You gotta give people a reason to buy your console and stick to it, and that's only done with great exclusives that release often. There's a reason why people remember the 360 fondly, and it's because they had great games coming out constantly in all genres, from all countries (at least until they started to focus on Kinect too much).
But he never said that. He said that they wouldn't suddenly begin outselling the PS5 because of great exclusives. And i don't think that's far fetched.
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,277
Just make good games. Invest in exclusives, whether timed or permanent. Enter in partnerships with studios to develop games for you, whether they're big or small.

I find Phil's stance of "even if you make great games people won't come" absurd and defeatist. You gotta give people a reason to buy your console and stick to it, and that's only done with great exclusives that release often. There's a reason why people remember the 360 fondly, and it's because they had great games coming out constantly in all genres, from all countries (at least until they started to focus on Kinect too much).

Of course, I don't have any of the data MS has. I'm just talking as an outsider. Maybe they're doomed with every decision they've done since they started working on One, but so many of these rumors seem so bad.


It's not the demise of Xbox, but it'd be a waste of investment time and money. You gotta add another device for developers to port to, on top of both Series and the next-gen one. That's a mess for developers that already dread having to work with the Series S. And how would they get a playerbase outside of their current Xbox audience if they can't offer anything the Switch 2 or the Steam Deck has, given that PC ports are not gonna stop, and Project Latitude is a go? It just seems like they'd see Switch being successful while not understanding why Switch is selling like that.
I agree about exclusivity, but they've permanently damaged the idea that any Xbox game can believed to be truly exclusive. Even if they want to, and I don't think they do, it'll be many years before anyone takes Microsoft at face value if they say a game is Xbox exclusive.
 

Azerth

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,291
cod on gamepass probable wont have any impact till next gen even then its hard to see it helping ms that much
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,069
So continue with business as usual on the hardware side? Think they are already pivoting on the software side of things and the hardware has to pivot accordingly as well.
Then it's too late already.

But he never said that. He said that they wouldn't suddenly begin outselling the PS5 because of great exclusives. And i don't think that's far fetched.
If he never tries, then how would he know? Every year so far for Xbox Series has been filled with 'buts' and unforced errors. Has there been a year where it's been "wow, what a great year for the platform"? 2021 was the closest to it with Forza Horizon 5 and a great E3 showing, even if the first half was still empty, and then the Halo release started to fall immediately because of the lack of content (a shame, because it's the best one gameplay-wise!) followed by a completely empty year in 2022 until Obsidian released 2 small games in the last quarter.

Then this year hits, it looks like it's gonna be an absolute heater with so many games releasing and the Activision purchase being finished, just for Project Latitude to happen, Xbox closing studios including Tango with more cuts in the future, and who knows at this point what else it's coming. It's like they set themselves to fail every time something good is going to happen. And it sucks because I really enjoy my Xbox, but it seems like since I bought it they've been stepping on those rakes extra hard.
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
If he never tries, then how would he know? Every year so far for Xbox Series has been filled with 'buts' and unforced errors. Has there been a year where it's been "wow, what a great year for the platform"? 2021 was the closest to it with Forza Horizon 5 and a great E3 showing, even if the first half was still empty, and then the Halo release started to fall immediately because of the lack of content (a shame, because it's the best one gameplay-wise!) followed by a completely empty year in 2022 until Obsidian released 2 small games in the last quarter.

Then this year hits, it looks like it's gonna be an absolute heater with so many games releasing and the Activision purchase being finished, just for Project Latitude to happen, Xbox closing studios including Tango with more cuts in the future, and who knows at this point what else it's coming. It's like they set themselves to fail every time something good is going to happen. And it sucks because I really enjoy my Xbox, but it seems like since I bought it they've been stepping on those rakes extra hard.
I agree with everything here. I don't think they would surpass PS5, but i do think they could get a really solid playerbase. My point is mainly that i don't think he is wrong that they would not "win" a console war anymore. Alas, corporations aren't really patient beasts - people point out that they tried and "it didn't work out" but they really only got budget and began investing in 2019 and with games taking 4/5 years to make now... Yeah, it sucks.
 

pg2g

Member
Dec 18, 2018
5,141
I agree with everything here. I don't think they would surpass PS5, but i do think they could get a really solid playerbase. My point is mainly that i don't think he is wrong that they would not "win" a console war anymore. Alas, corporations aren't really patient beasts - people point out that they tried and "it didn't work out" but they really only got budget and began investing in 2019 and with games taking 4/5 years to make now... Yeah, it sucks.

When you think about how much time and investment it takes to claw away marketshare (with no guarantee of success) from an entrenched competitor, it is no wonder that they have decided to pivot IMO.
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
When you think about how much time and investment it takes to claw away marketshare (with no guarantee of success) from an entrenched competitor, it is no wonder that they have decided to pivot IMO.
Yeah, i understand that too, especially since consoles seem to have hit a ceiling which is not good at ALL considering rising dev costs. We'll see what happens.

Nothing will ever make me understand layoffs and studio closures, tho.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,069
I agree with everything here. I don't think they would surpass PS5, but i do think they could get a really solid playerbase. My point is mainly that i don't think he is wrong that they would not "win" a console war anymore. Alas, corporations aren't really patient beasts - people point out that they tried and "it didn't work out" but they really only got budget and began investing in 2019 and with games taking 4/5 years to make now... Yeah, it sucks.
Arkane Austin and Tango didn't even have time to make their own projects under Microsoft, they had enough time to finish what they were already doing before the axe came down for things that weren't even their fault. It's insane and I'll never understand the closures when MS is such a rich company.
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
Arkane Austin and Tango didn't even have time to make their own projects under Microsoft, they had enough time to finish what they were already doing before the axe came down for things that weren't even their fault. It's insane and I'll never understand the closures when MS is such a rich company.
They just want bigger profit margins. It's why everyone is doing layoffs - i think the only company (from the big publishers) that was actually in debt and bleeding money was Embracer. And even that one didn't have much reasons to do layoffs.
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,355
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
Arkane Austin and Tango didn't even have time to make their own projects under Microsoft, they had enough time to finish what they were already doing before the axe came down for things that weren't even their fault. It's insane and I'll never understand the closures when MS is such a rich company.
I mean it's fairly easy to understand. Microsoft decided Tango and Arkane Austin were unlikely to make the return on investment they wanted vs the opportunity cost of allowing them that chance. So they shuttered them.
 

wiIdcard

Member
Oct 25, 2018
272
Except those two can't play the last 20 years of Xbox games, and the Deck still doesn't offer a true console experience. And the docked experience on Deck is still pretty meh.

I don't see how releasing a handheld would be the demise of Xbox. If the Steam Deck can sell a couple of million units and be considered a success, so could a Xbox handheld.
I think Microsoft can make a better handheld than Valve at the same price. And I don't really understand the "but Switch and Deck exists". If I mostly play on Xbox I will rather buy a handheld that can play my existing library on the same ecosystem. Just like people who mainly play on Steam will likely stick with Steam Deck.
 

Bede-x

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,877
Battletoads is in a beat'em up Humble Bundle. Not super cheap, but cheap enough for me:

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Brutal Beat 'Em Ups

Let your firsts do the talking with this bundle of action-packed beat ‘em ups! Return to the glory days and help support Active Minds & Safe in Our World!
 

immy

Member
Jul 3, 2022
1,765
Just make good games. Invest in exclusives, whether timed or permanent. Enter in partnerships with studios to develop games for you, whether they're big or small.

I find Phil's stance of "even if you make great games people won't come" absurd and defeatist. You gotta give people a reason to buy your console and stick to it, and that's only done with great exclusives that release often. There's a reason why people remember the 360 fondly, and it's because they had great games coming out constantly in all genres, from all countries (at least until they started to focus on Kinect too much).
I agree with this post.

Xbox took all the wrong lessons from the 360.

The first few years of the 360, for me, it was the best console of all time

Finish the fight.
 

DiegoPaulino

Member
Aug 24, 2023
3,149
A handheld Series S in 2026 would sell imo. Provided it runs like a Series S and has all the same games as a Series S from 2026 and beyond.

About this, knowing how much shit the Series S gets for "holding back the gen", not only with gaming marks but also with developers, why a portable version of It, that would cost the double the price of the current Series S, would change this kind of vision with them?
 

Ayumu

Member
May 10, 2024
56
Well, my Series X has arrived and the configuration was pretty painless. I tried Sekiro and Ninja Gaiden 2, the first because I wanted check the framerate and the latter because I need confirm the console can download my 360 profile without problem. Now I just need configure my S and visit my mother tomorrow 😸
 

DiegoPaulino

Member
Aug 24, 2023
3,149
I agree with this post.

Xbox took all the wrong lessons from the 360.

The first few years of the 360, for me, it was the best console of all time

Finish the fight.

When you think about It, even the first two years of the Xbox One had It, the annoucement mask It but the Xbox One had better exclusive games in this window than the PS4, this changed when Punished Phil got the job.
 

immy

Member
Jul 3, 2022
1,765
When you think about It, even the first two years of the Xbox One had It, the annoucement mask It but the Xbox One had better exclusive games in this window than the PS4, this changed when Punished Phil got the job.
Ha I had checked out of games for alot of the Xbox one generation, I only came back with the Xbox series x. Only really been back for the Phil era :/
 

Tuxedo38

Member
Apr 7, 2022
436
About this, knowing how much shit the Series S gets for "holding back the gen", not only with gaming marks but also with developers, why a portable version of It, that would cost the double the price of the current Series S, would change this kind of vision with them?

The Series S isn't really holding back this generation. Outside of BG3, there haven't been big games skipping the platform because of the limitations with the Series S. Also the parts that go into that level of console will be cheaper in 2-3 years and perhaps you add in more VRAM to make the weak point of the system not as weak.

Plus there are differences in expectations with a TV console and a handheld. 30fps games running at 720p on your 7 inch screen isn't really comparable to that running on your 50-60 inch 4K TV screen.
 

DiegoPaulino

Member
Aug 24, 2023
3,149
Bro, I'm glad the Immortals of Aveum were able to make it run até 60fps on the Series S but the graphic hit for it, even for me playing It on a TV Far away, is noticeable. Some Textures looked like were portes straight from the psone era 😭

The Series S isn't really holding back this generation. Outside of BG3, there haven't been big games skipping the platform because of the limitations with the Series S. Also the parts that go into that level of console will be cheaper in 2-3 years and perhaps you add in more VRAM to make the weak point of the system not as weak.

Oh, I know that, I'm talking about the public misconception of It, just remember how It was in the "The Series S is holding BG3" around here until the deva Said that the Series S version made them improve the other versions.

Plus there are differences in expectations with a TV console and a handheld. 30fps games running at 720p on your 7 inch screen isn't really comparable to that running on your 50-60 inch 4K TV screen.

Which would make its price, at least, the same as the future Series X2.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,831
The Series S isn't really holding back this generation. Outside of BG3, there haven't been big games skipping the platform because of the limitations with the Series S. Also the parts that go into that level of console will be cheaper in 2-3 years and perhaps you add in more VRAM to make the weak point of the system not as weak.

Plus there are differences in expectations with a TV console and a handheld. 30fps games running at 720p on your 7 inch screen isn't really comparable to that running on your 50-60 inch 4K TV screen.
BG3 wasn't even skipping Xbox due to the Series S. If co-op parity was the problem, they got that waived months prior to its actual release. If it was ready and that was the only thing holding it back, they could've released it sooner. But they just waited until TGA to release it and prioritized other platforms sequentially (PC, then PS5, then Xbox).
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,355
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
The Series S isn't really holding back this generation. Outside of BG3, there haven't been big games skipping the platform because of the limitations with the Series S. Also the parts that go into that level of console will be cheaper in 2-3 years and perhaps you add in more VRAM to make the weak point of the system not as weak.

Plus there are differences in expectations with a TV console and a handheld. 30fps games running at 720p on your 7 inch screen isn't really comparable to that running on your 50-60 inch 4K TV screen.
Yeah we can't really give the Series S grief when the PS4 is still getting games and it's literally a generation behind. The only thing holding this gen back is greed.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,509
What's the ceiling price-point you would all feel comfortable paying for current Gamepass + COD?

As personally I'd be fine paying $2 more a month, but anything more than a $3 hike on Ultimate would be a harder sell, and will require some additional perks. If they're going to increase it by $5/mo, then that's basically $60 a year - at which point I might as well just buy it retail. They can try sweeten the deal all they want with "Early Access" and "Gamepass Battle-Pass", but that's not a selling-point for me
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,831
Wait, what? It's been a long time since I played, but I think the only achievement I didn't get was getting all the lore. Is it a significant difference?
No that's why i said slightly. the dude that you hear narrate all the lore appears in the reflection pool and speaks to senua for a moment or something. Its very minor
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,376
When you think about It, even the first two years of the Xbox One had It, the annoucement mask It but the Xbox One had better exclusive games in this window than the PS4, this changed when Punished Phil got the job.

New project approvals seemed to dry up in the late matrick period, which, due to development time lag, resulted in not much coming in 2016-2017.

Its obvious Spencer didn't turn that around immediately. Becuse the 2018-2019 period would have had a lot more stuff if he had. And the ballooning dev times make that especially punishing, such that acquiring 50 zillion studios still didn't fully fix it by (checks calendar) 1h 2024.
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
yeah and people don't realize how damaging not continuing with your dev pipeline can be. i mean, helldivers 2 took 8 years to make. that comes dangerously close to when phil started leading xbox (2014) lol rise of the ronin has been in development for seven years. its why i always find odd that people don't think its that absurd that xgs games since the acquisition have been this long in development.

for sure, there are a lot of issues that were made right now and recently, but yeah, xbox one era lack of funding is hurting them to this day.
 
Last edited:

Kazaam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,867
London
Wait, what? It's been a long time since I played, but I think the only achievement I didn't get was getting all the lore. Is it a significant difference?
It unlocks a small scene regarding Druth's truth (lol).
Druth has been kinda lying to Senua. He was a slave of the northern, but under torture he actually was responsible for bringing them to his lands. More importantly however he explains there was another person who came searching for the northmen and gave them information on Senua's lands, "a man in black" who was given safe passage. This might refer to her father or possibly something we will understand more about in the sequel. He ends the scene doubling down on the meaning of the game by stating that in the end this isnt on the Gods he spent most game pumping us about, but the suffering comes from the hands of those that are closest to us
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,574
yeah and people don't realize how damaging not continuing with your dev pipeline can be. i mean, helldivers 2 took 8 years to make. that comes dangerously close to when phil started leading xbox (2014) lol rise of the ronin has been in development for seven years. its why i always find odd that people don't think its that absurd that xgs games since the acquisition have been this long in development.

for sure, there are a lot of issues that were made right now and recently, but yeah, xbox one era lack of funding is hurting them to this day.

Team Ninja is not a good example, they actually put out a lot of games. If you look at their games since 2012 its something like:

  • Dead or Alive 5 (and enhanced editions)
  • Hyrule Warriors
  • Nioh
  • Fire Emblem Warriors
  • Dead or Alive 6
  • Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
  • Nioh 2
  • Final Fantasy Origin: Stranger of Paradise
  • Wo Long
  • Rise of the Ronin
 

Granjinhaa

Member
Dec 28, 2023
3,750
Team Ninja is not a good example, they actually put out a lot of games. If you look at their games since 2012 its something like:

  • Dead or Alive 5 (and enhanced editions)
  • Hyrule Warriors
  • Nioh
  • Fire Emblem Warriors
  • Dead or Alive 6
  • Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
  • Nioh 2
  • Final Fantasy Origin: Stranger of Paradise
  • Wo Long
  • Rise of the Ronin
For sure. I was talking about Sony's exclusive pipeline though, not Team Ninja. Rise of the Ronin was 7 years in development (per Team Ninja) with help from Playstation. These kind of projects happen because doesn't Sony wake up and say hmmmmmm what if we stopped greenlight new projects - hence Xbox's predicament with games and why so many of them took so long (only began development in 2018/2019 or later)

I'm not excusing them of _other_ mistakes (the contract situation at 343/turn 10 for example) and they certainly could have, i dunno, bought some timed exclusives. but most of these games are under pretty normal dev timelines imo.

EDIT: I mean, heck, Ni-Oh was announced for the PS3. And only came out on the PS4. Because Sony never stopped funding and investing in their exclusive pipelines, be it first party or through third party partnerships.