Xbox Lockhart could have a SKU with no controller to sell it at a cheap price

poklane · Aug 5, 2020

Back in 2013 the estimated manufacturing costs for the Xbox One controller and DualShock 4 was $15 and $18 respectively, I don't really see how selling a console without a controller would cause a noteworthy price reduction, we're basically talking about a $20 price reduction here unless for some other reason Microsoft would be willing to take an extra big hit on such a SKU. If anything I'd say this is a bad thing because anyone who doesn't already own a XB1 or XSX would basically have to add whatever the price of a new controller is to the price of the console itself.

AegonSnake · Aug 5, 2020

lol werent people saying how even though the ps5 comes bundled in with a controller, the fact that the ps4 controller isnt supported was anti-consumer.

what would those people make of this? anti-consumer squared?

EekumBokum · Aug 5, 2020

Console without a controller. THIS is anti-consumer.

tapedeck · Aug 5, 2020

I could see $249 without a controller.

pappacone · Aug 5, 2020

also if someone is a ps5-only user and they choose Xbox Lockhart as their next console they would pay 300 + 60 instead of 320?

Bessy67 · Aug 5, 2020

A Lockheart with no controller but Kinect 3.0. $599.

Jerm411 · Aug 5, 2020

DukeNukum said:
But it comes with a controller if you want to buy one ...

Why not make it a choice for consumers rather than a forced cost?

Then why include any thing outside of the box?

IDreamOfHime · Aug 5, 2020

Seems ill thought out.
An entry level console seems designed to entice your non hardcore Xbox fan, as they gravitate towards the best SKU available, but if they are a non Xbox gamer then they probably had a PS4 this gen and thus no spare Xbox controllers to use on this system.

LordBaztion · Aug 5, 2020

tomwarren said:
Maybe they'll do an Xbox that's just a cardboard box.
Could call it Xbox Series Box.

If they add xcloud, I could go with that.

Mike Armbrust · Aug 5, 2020

That's dumb if it happens imo. Gets in the way of non core xbox players buying it.

Defect · Aug 5, 2020

Give me a Series X without the controller.

natestellar · Aug 5, 2020

DukeNukum said:
But it comes with a controller if you want to buy one ...

Why not make it a choice for consumers rather than a forced cost?

Huh?

At what point do you stop? Consumers may have HDMI cables lying around or a power cord, they might have SSDs/HDDs which they don't need. The whole idea is incredibly dumb.

Nameless · Aug 5, 2020

Seesaw15 said:
I feel like when this comes out we'll have a 50 page Era thread concerned about parents getting confused and buying a console without a controller for their kids.

My parents were always pretty good about that stuff, but some of my friends who wanted a Series X absolutely would've ended up with a Controllerless Lockhart instead.

dom · Aug 5, 2020

RivalGT said:
I think the idea is that if an xbox one S owner already has a controller, then they can cheaply upgrade to the new Series S for a very low price.

The problem is a lot will trade in their X1S, and unless they have multiple controllers, it won't be a savings.

ShinobiOfTheWind · Aug 5, 2020

Well, they WANT that $299, as a bare minimum for the SKU, so anything goes eh? If it's $199, then shit just gets real and bunker time.

I don't remember any console SKU (especially, at a console launch) without a bundled controller, like EVER.

a Master Ninja said:
How much does a controller actually cost Microsoft? $20? Less?

B.O.O.M. said:
I mean before any speculation, do we have any BOM estimates for the controller?

Slightly under $25 with BOM + packaging. Rest of the MRP are retail/digital channel distribution (and sub-distribution if it's out of region, i.e. US/UK) margins.

Rosebud · Aug 5, 2020

Isn't it supposed to be a entry point? Only enthusiasts owns 10 controllers from previous generations.

daegan · Aug 5, 2020

jesus. if this thing performs decently and I can cross-save stuff with PC, I could actually see doing it

Windu · Aug 5, 2020

Falus said:
Yeah. I don't get people saying it's smart. It's nice for people having Xbox controller already. But Xbox one is far from a market leader. So if they want to bring new people in it's very stupid would be a fake low price

They would obviously have a sku with a controller packed in. But having a cheaper option for people that already have a controller? Sign me up.

The_R3medy · Aug 5, 2020

One would hope their main variant is the one with a controller. I don't like stripping down the package with needed items removed.

Soupman Prime · Aug 5, 2020

Sounds like something I'd get tbh. Planned on only getting one next gen console but if I can sue my Xbox One controllers and the console is pretty cheap then maybe it's a purchase.

Iron Eddie · Aug 5, 2020

kambaybolongo said:
Love to buy a grimy controller to use with my brand new console

Then buy a new one on e-bay for $30. The Xbox 360 controller probably work

poklane said:
For whatever it's worth, 3 weeks ago he mentioned that Microsoft could do this at $300 https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/16/...uation-means-for-the-next-generation-of-xbox/

Maybe it's just me but if Sony can somehow get the diskless PS5 to $399 I think Lockhart even at $299 it would struggle. I would rather spend the extra $100 unless Lockhart came with a controller and a drive for $299.

Aureon · Aug 5, 2020

This isn't as smart as you think
The BoM of the controller is 20$ or so. Probably less.
Controllers are absurdly marked up (or, well, are mostly about recouping R&D, depending on how you see it)

So a 50$ price drop for a controller missing doesn't make any sense in microsoft's book. If the console "with" was sold at a thin profit margin, the controllerless SKU becomes a net loss.

And cutting out the controller for a 25$ drop would be received as "insulting", likely.

The_R3medy · Aug 5, 2020

daegan said:
jesus. if this thing performs decently and I can cross-save stuff with PC, I could actually see doing it

The lack of cross-save currently actually had me bummed when playing Minecraft Dungeons. I wanted to play a level on my console but found out it didn't transfer. I was big sad.

Bessy67 · Aug 5, 2020

Defect said:
Give me a Series X without the controller.

To me that makes more sense. Someone buying the premium level of console is kinda more likely to already be an Xbox owner and have controllers lying around as opposed to someone buying the budget model.

Musubi · Aug 5, 2020

Honestly I like this idea. The main issue here is you have to ABSOLUTELY COMMUNICATE that there is not a controller in the box. Could be an interesting strategy and a neat option for people with loads of Xbox One accessories already.

Praedyth · Aug 5, 2020

LewieP said:
They should add support for Dualshock 4 controllers.

And DualSense. Lol

Phamit · Aug 5, 2020

The only way I see them offering a console SKU without controller is, if you only can order it through their website, but not at other retailers.

RivalGT · Aug 5, 2020

Yeah it really doesn't make sense if they dont have a version with the controller. I would say its almost as bad as the Vita not coming with any storage, and having to buy expensive memory cards. So you we get a very cheap console, but now we have to buy a $60 controller.

Lord Arcadio · Aug 5, 2020

They can really bring down the price if they have an SKU without the console.

Rosebud · Aug 5, 2020

Musubi said:
Honestly I like this idea. The main issue here is you have to ABSOLUTELY COMMUNICATE that there is not a controller in the box. Could be an interesting strategy and a neat option for people with loads of Xbox One accessories already.

But people with loads of Xbox accessories would prefer the Series X

Cookie · Aug 5, 2020

Lant_War said:
Lockhart is diskless according to all rumors so far

Ah fuck, i remember that. Ah well, the dream is dead lol.

AndyMc1888 · Aug 5, 2020

poklane said:
Back in 2013 the estimated manufacturing costs for the Xbox One controller and DualShock 4 was $15 and $18 respectively, I don't really see how selling a console without a controller would cause a noteworthy price reduction, we're basically talking about a $20 price reduction here unless for some other reason Microsoft would be willing to take an extra big hit on such a SKU. If anything I'd say this is a bad thing because anyone who doesn't already own a XB1 or XSX would basically have to add whatever the price of a new controller is to the price of the console itself.

That's probably a bigger saving than the disc drive people are cutting off the 0
Ps5 de

Praedyth · Aug 5, 2020

tomwarren said:
Maybe they'll do an Xbox that's just a cardboard box.

Could call it Xbox Series Box.

No, this is just XSX packaging. Xbox Series Box + Xbox Series X = Xbox Series Xbox

Fat4all · Aug 5, 2020

Lord Arcadio said:
They can really bring down the price if they have an SKU without the console.

total customization

Geode · Aug 5, 2020

Not a bad idea honestly. I'm sure people can get cheap, used Xbox one controllers or use their current one if they already have one. Also, cuts down on e-waste.

RestEerie · Aug 5, 2020

Lockhart to be whipped without a casing and box ala raspberry pi for $199.

Misterhbk · Aug 5, 2020

Just keep everything controller and all under 300 and I'm buying Lockhart no matter what. If I've gotta spend closer to 400 though (I'd need a controller) I'm probably skipping out until MS First Party proves itself.

Winnie · Aug 5, 2020

Isn't on the title of the thread that this is another SKU? Am I wrong? Why are people acting like if the no controller sku is the only option?

Rosebud · Aug 5, 2020

AndyMc1888 said:
That's probably a bigger saving than the disc drive people are cutting off the 0
Ps5 de

That's because no disc drive means digital games only (so 30% cut to Sony from every purchase)

Green · Aug 5, 2020

Makes sense. Nintendo sold the new 3DS without a charger.

Musubi · Aug 5, 2020

Rosebud said:
But people with loads of Xbox accessories would prefer the Series X

Would they? Because the only way I'd buy Microsoft's next console is if I could get it dirt cheap so I could just play gamepass shit on it. And as someone who owns a Xbox One controller for PC gaming a cheap box that I could play gamepass games on sounds the most appealing to me.

Jerm411 · Aug 5, 2020

Walken said:
Then buy a new one on e-bay for $30. The Xbox 360 controller probably work

Maybe I can use this bad boy on it....

Mercury_Sagit · Aug 5, 2020

While it is possible since old XBO controllers will work, I doubt they will want people to buy a separate controller. A quick Google search gave me this link which showed BOM of XB360 controllers to be $11.
I'm not sure which component of XB1 (and XSX) controllers may increase BOM compared to XB360's counterparts, but still 100% increase is my guess of the upper limit. Thus by cutting the controller from the bundle, MS does not really save a lot of money on BOM, but they will have to either offer a price reduction which matches the MSRP of XB1/XSX controllers and see reduced margin, or offer a smaller reduction than that and see customers raging with having to buy a separate controller and ending up with higher cost than the console + controller bundle.
May be this option would be offerred beside the normal console + controller bundle as a low cost alternative? But then the communication should be clear on the box (e.g. showing the image of only the console without a controller, added labels, etc.)

s y · Aug 5, 2020

Sounds kinda anti consumer tbh

Sirolf · Aug 5, 2020

Lord Arcadio said:
They can really bring down the price if they have an SKU without the console.

I chuckled 🤭

DavidDesu · Aug 5, 2020

I suppose why not. Good for anyone who owns a controller already. Means if I got a Lockheart I could get that nice dark green One controller I've seen. There's actually a few really nice colours out there, rather than getting a boring packed in one with no choice.

pappacone · Aug 5, 2020

AndyMc1888 said:
That's probably a bigger saving than the disc drive people are cutting off the 0
Ps5 de

no one thinks PS5 de would cost less because it's cheaper to produce, but because it would force its user to buy digital, which is way better for Sony

$10 Bagel · Aug 5, 2020

Wouldn't be a bad idea if the average person buying consoles was informed, considering a regular XB1 controller works you don't really need a new controller.

However this would lead to a ton of people buying the console and not having a controller and wondering what happened.

Windu · Aug 5, 2020

s y said:
Sounds kinda anti consumer tbh

More options is the opposite of that.

ThereAreFourNaan · Aug 5, 2020

AegonSnake said:
lol werent people saying how even though the ps5 comes bundled in with a controller, the fact that the ps4 controller isnt supported was anti-consumer.

what would those people make of this? anti-consumer squared?

An optional sku for people who already have XBO gamepads (which will work with this) isn't a bad idea. If they didn't tell you it didn't come with a controller, and you had to buy a new one, then yeah that would suck.

I understand some people are raw but think about it - why would this be "anti consumer" if it was cheaper?

Lord Arcadio said:
They can really bring down the price if they have an SKU without the console.

Yeah it's called xcloud and it's on the agenda.

Xbox Lockhart could have a SKU with no controller to sell it at a cheap price

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