But the bird!This thread is basically white people saying what he said aint that bad or turning it into "Bernie aint a white guy he white Jewish". This is why America has such a problem
But the bird!This thread is basically white people saying what he said aint that bad or turning it into "Bernie aint a white guy he white Jewish". This is why America has such a problem
Medicare For All, free tuition, and higher minimum wage don't affect only white progressives. Talk shit about him, but not about those. Those things will help everyone.He appeals to issues that affects white progressives, which doesn't include minorities. He is a populist and opportunist.
The biggest problem with implicit racism is that it's ingrained and pervasive, making it hard to stamp out since the person is even more likely to bunker down like a snapping turtle and can be used as a means of 'SJWs/PC culture gone too far' if it's something that looks innocuous from a distance but is more disturbing upon closer inspection.(not directed at your point).
I would argue that implicit racist is far more damaging than explicit. Implicit racial bias fuels systematic racism. People use the fact that they aren't explicit like the KKK to assume that their views aren't racist. Those insidious types are far more scary than KKK.
that isn't the definition though. this is the definition:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
by your definition, affirmative action would be racism.
He's doing the casual racism thing of excusing their racism. He should've just not said anything.If Bernie meant "Well meaning people can be impacted by hate campaigns", well it's true. It sucks and I think its a pretty un
controversial stance.
He is also all about discarding "identity politics" whatever that means.Medicare For All, free tuition, and higher minimum wage don't affect only white progressives. Talk shit about him, but not about those. Those things will help everyone.
Not voting for someone because of their race but being okay with voting for someone who is their race is literally the definition you just posted.
You are literally making a decision base on the color of the skin. Kind of definition of racism.
Not voting for someone because of their race but being okay with voting for someone who is their race is literally the definition you just posted.
...
All of these can come off as unintentionally casually antisemitic, and downplaying of the historical and contemporary discrimination that many Jews still experience, albeit - at least in an American context - at now very lessened rates, especially compared to African-American and Latinx individuals.
I don't know why we are discussing Jewishness and whiteness.
If you wanted to give Sanders some benefit of the doubt, you can see from his comments about anti-Semitism that he is using a (too) high bar for those terms.
It was anti-Semitism. It is racism.
He definitely has a lot more of a hopeful outlook than many right now. Maybe that's a positive. Maybe it's naive. Dunno
Nah, the black would be even better.for the record, i don't think that appealing to racists is a good enough reason to be hesitant to vote for a black president, but i don't think it's racist to acknowledge that white politicians are generally a safer choice because racism is still a very real thing.
if i was chief of a police force looking to do an undercover operation on the KKK, i would elect the white cop as the undercover agent because it would probably be way easier for him. blackkklansman was a great movie though.
I think a good portion of it is him and Trump being two sides of the same coin.
Trump appeals to conservative whiteness, Sanders appeals to "liberal" whiteness.
Trump uses racism as a tool, Sanders ignores it outright.
That's why it wasn't so difficult for some of his supporters to jump on the Trump train.
It's like doing the cups and balls trick without any ballsThis thread is basically white people saying what he said aint that bad or turning it into "Bernie aint a white guy he white Jewish". This is why America has such a problem
A lot of older leftists tend to reject identity politics, seeing it as a 'distraction' from the class struggle. You see this position with Marxists, Leninists and Trots a lot.He is also all about discarding "identity politics" whatever that means.
He does know how to use dog whistles.
........this was his definition:
for the record, i don't think that appealing to racists is a good enough reason to be hesitant to vote for a black president, but i don't think it's racist to acknowledge that white politicians are generally a safer choice because racism is still a very real thing.
if i was chief of a police force looking to do an undercover operation on the KKK, i would elect the white cop as the undercover agent because it would probably be way easier for him. blackkklansman was a great movie though.
Leftist can be racist and/or sexist.A lot of older leftists tend to reject identity politics, seeing it as a 'distraction' from the class struggle. You see this position with Marxists, Leninists and Trots a lot.
He is also all about discarding "identity politics" whatever that means.
He does know how to use dog whistles.
holy overreaction era. i just read this as "there's unique challenges and hinderances that a black president would have to overcome that a white president would not, thus some voters might have been a reluctant to vote for a black president despite them personally not having any racist beliefs."
:/That was during a speech in which he echoed what Obama said about identity politics, that the identity of a candidate doesn't matter if they do not have progressive ideals. In his example, he said that we shouldn't vote for a woman just because they are a woman, but because they are a woman and want to regulate banks more. It was more intersectional.
Medicare For All, free tuition, and higher minimum wage don't affect only white progressives. Talk shit about him, but not about those. Those things will help everyone.
So because he made one poorly-worded observation he's oblivious to bigotry?
That was during a speech in which he echoed what Obama said about identity politics, that the identity of a candidate doesn't matter if they do not have progressive ideals. In his example, he said that we shouldn't vote for a woman just because they are a woman, but because they are a woman and want to regulate banks more. It was more intersectional.
And yes, being 'uncomfortable' giving a black person a job means you hold some very racist beliefs.
Fair enough. I don't blame you for your mistrust, though.:/
You'll excuse me if I don't trust his vision of intersectionality.
Let's agree to disagree here or agree that I shouldn't have raised that point if I didn't want to argue it further.
this was his definition:
for the record, i don't think that appealing to racists is a good enough reason to be hesitant to vote for a black president, but i don't think it's racist to acknowledge that white politicians are generally a safer choice because racism is still a very real thing.
if i was chief of a police force looking to do an undercover operation on the KKK, i would elect the white cop as the undercover agent because it would probably be way easier for him. blackkklansman was a great movie though.
At no point in time did I not say Sanders wasn't progressive. Being a progressive requires you to support a lot of those items, so what is your point? OMG a man claiming to be progressive support those things, that is special.
Here is my point and I hope you follow it before reacting. The problem is Sanders progressive views do not extend to issues that affect significantly impact minorities. He can go on and on about issues, but whenever issues relating to racial inequality and racism in this country he tries to avoid the topic or makes a racism comment like this topic.
Bernie Sanders is like Portland, OR liberal or an average Bostonian. They will vote vote for liberals but treat minorities like shit or doesn't stop them from being completely racist.
I legit can't tell if this is Poe's Law or whatHate him or love him, the mainstream Democratic Party is moving Left thanks to Bernie Sanders. He is White Moses as we head for the Progressive Promised Land. He may not get there with us but I thank my brother for his service.
Y'all get biblical about this dude and don't understand why we think you're fools lmaoHate him or love him, the mainstream Democratic Party is moving Left thanks to Bernie Sanders. He is White Moses as we head for the Progressive Promised Land. He may not get there with us but I thank my brother for his service.
Some are, some are just really dogmatic. Either way, it's harmful since it dismisses the way that ethnic minorities, women, LGBTQ+, etc. are discriminated against outside of economic structures .Leftist can be racist and/or sexist.
Some of the things written in the early XXth by marxists people were not that far from what you could on the other side of the horshoe from that theory.
Some leftist are all about leaving the girls at home to raise kids for bigger workforce or whatever shit idea they had.
This idea that a leftist can't be sexist or racist is lunacy.
He is also all about discarding "identity politics" whatever that means.
Being Jewish doesn't mean you are white. There are Jews from North Africa and would fit general defenition for non white. There are Jews from Ethiopia who are black.Banned, but you'll still get this work because your thread performance is trash.
Uh.... yeah he's oblivious as fuck to bigotry if he's going to defend people from the LITERAL definition of Racism. Like what are you smoking?
You were in here saying Jews aren't white? Can I have some of that weed?
Black People and Jews have had a long symbiotic relationship in America. We wouldn't have the prominence we have in n the entertainment industry if it wasn't for Jewish executives giving black talent chances and opportunities. Do you know why that happened?
Because Jewish executives were the interface between Black talent and White Network Executives. Why did those White Executives work and make deals with Jewish Producers?
BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE.
Ideas don't pass legislation or run campaigns, and they definitely don't vote.What an incredibly stupid thing to say. I like Bernie, but he has a way of putting his foot into his mouth. Unfortunately, he is the leftmost possible candidate for 2020; much closer to my kind of politics than anyone else.
But, I've learned a while ago to not hold my faith in people, but in ideas. People will always say or do something dumb or bigoted, but ideas are more resilient. Progressives aren't being propped up by a single man or a select few. We are propped up by just and sorely needed ideals such as Medicare For All, free tuition, and higher minimum wages and so on. I say that we should push those rather than people.
I agree but he has done more than March with MLK. https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125fSaying he marched with MLK is the same thing as Republicans talking about Lincoln freeing the slaves. Is he racist? Something you did 50 years ago, don't give you a pass over easily avoidable shit happening today. No, is he is dangerously ignorant on minority issues, hell yes. That alone should discount him from any real place in the democratic party
It's fairly classic approach from traditional left (Marx, Lenin, etc...) where the focus is on class struggle vs race/identity struggle. Of course as many other aspects of pure communism/socialism, this doesn't quite work in real life.This is a good piece about the issues with identity politics from a leftist perspective, probably the best summary I've read. It doesn't advocate discarding that perspective entirely, just recognizing it has limits and should be balanced with class-based politics.
Ideas don't pass legislation or run campaigns, and they definitely don't vote.
Ideas are nice. But at some point you have to run them through reality, and there you're going to need to figure out how to leverage people.
Beautifully said. Unfortunately alienating white people in rural communities isn't going to win elections. Bernie is trying to speak to them to open up another Avenue for the Democrats.Ideas don't pass legislation or run campaigns, and they definitely don't vote.
Ideas are nice. But at some point you have to run them through reality, and there you're going to need to figure out how to leverage people.
Among younger socialist though, it's not an either/or proposition. The smarter ones in the movement know that class struggle and minority struggles are interlinked but not entirely overlapped and thus have to be dealt with in tandem. We shouldn't have to sacrifice "identify" for "class" but find a way to make them work together. This whole thread can be summed up with Bernie just being too old and outdated with his understanding of race (he's too afraid of alienating a base of white voters that are frankly nothing more than a specter at this point and should either fall in line or be abandoned). His economic are ideas are good and important for pulling progressives further left, but we need him to play cheerleader to younger socialist options for 2020 who understand the intersection of identity and class.Some are, some are just really dogmatic. Either way, it's harmful since it dismisses the way that ethnic minorities, women, LGBTQ+, etc. are discriminated against outside of economic structures .
Beautifully said. Unfortunately alienating white people in rural communities isn't going to win elections. Bernie is trying to speak to them to open up another Avenue for the Democrats.