• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reader mode
lenovox1

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
RailWays said:
Considering how ineffective birtherism was the last time around, I'm surprised that's the best play they're going with
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They won't. Only complete idiots will even attempt it, and it's an empty attack as brought up upthread. Hoteps and incels will also go after relationships she made on the road to her political career.

Smart conservatives are actually going after her record as a prosecutor. Kennedy, the libertarian ex-MTV VJ, actually had a segment on it on her Fox Business program. Social liberals like her will touch on her conviction rate and social conservatives will bring up the fact that she refused to pursue the death penalty in high profile cases.



No one is making these hit pieces on anyone else. They are all legitimately afraid of her candidacy.
 
Last edited:
RailWays

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,688
Reverse Giraffe said:
Which candidates do you guys actually like? Too much negativity in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In the end, I'm fine with most barring Gabbard and Biden, but I'm leaning towards Bernie/Warren at the moment. I'm watching Harris closely, but want to see how she addresses her criticisms.

I'm not in the know regarding Gillibrand. Hear positive stuff though
 
TarNaru33

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
Reverse Giraffe said:
Which candidates do you guys actually like? Too much negativity in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Those who dont try to word weasel their positions on M4A.

I am okay with all except Biden, who I will not vote for. Gabbard isnt even in the equation to me.

I am cautious on Gillibrand as I dont trust her and she spoke fondly of the filibuster. The idea of the filibuster not being nuked asap in 2020 almost bars her alone for me, but I will still vote her.

I am also reserved on Beto and hope he doesn't run, I am wary of types that wants to be an open canvass. Would still vote him, but he is probably at the bottom of the list of relatively well known contenders. I am not sure if I even like him more than Gillibrand.

I prefer Warren, Bernie, and Harris, though I need to read more on Harris' M4A stance.
 
lmcfigs

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
TarNaru33 said:
Those who dont try to word weasel their positions on M4A.

I am okay with all except Biden, who I will not vote for. Gabbard isnt even in the equation to me.

I am cautious on Gillibrand as I dont trust her and she spoke fondly of the filibuster. The idea of the filibuster not being nuked asap in 2020 almost bars her alone for me, but I will still vote her.

I am also reserved on Beto and hope he doesn't run, I am wary of types that wants to be an open canvass. Would still vote him, but he is probably at the bottom of the list of relatively well known contenders. I am not sure if I even like him more than Gillibrand.

I prefer Warren, Bernie, and Harris, though I need to read more on Harris' M4A stance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Beto kind of fell off for me. You'd think not running in Texas anymore would make him more open to progressive stances, but we really haven't seen that. He's also gotten super goofy recently. idk what happened.
 
TarNaru33

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
lmcfigs said:
Beto kind of fell off for me. You'd think not running in Texas anymore would make him more open to progressive stances, but we really haven't seen that. He's also gotten super goofy recently. idk what happened.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Exactly, he isnt embracing progressivism because he wants to be seen as open to all, so the public can paint whatever picture they want him to be. It stinks of manipulation for lack of a better word. Party loyalists back him for a reason

He started to make a series of mistakes and some people are running that saps some of his potential voters from him, the same issue Bernie would have if he ran while Warren is also running.

That bipartisan roadtrip alone put him near Biden. Stop trying to "normalize" a really hostile party, Democrats.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
weirder said:
Kamala Harris seems to be drawing the most fire and ire from the extremes and she's handling it well. She had a difficult and controversial job and the way she handled it is not only acceptable but commendable. Being President in 2020 and going forward is not going to be easy. Her interview with Maddow was too brief but was good. Although, it's her professional conduct that I'm looking at, not how casual she can act. I'm looking forward to longer interviews.
I liked how Gillibrand presented herself on the Pod Saves interview but it was exceedingly friendly and unchallenging.
It's very early on but for now I like Harris.
If somehow it worked out that Harris/Gillibrand was elected that seems right now like a very formidable duo who would guide the country well, deal with corruption in various departments of the executive, and attract incredible and needed talent to the WH. I'd like to say Harris/Warren but Warren doesn't give the impression she would be open to VP.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Warren would be replaced with a Republican Senator if she took another position. I'm not sure Dems can afford to give up a Senate seat.
 
jack_package_200

jack_package_200

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
https://www.gq.com/story/bernie-sanders-unfinished-business

In a Democratic Party that is increasingly deriving its energy—not to mention its votes—from minorities and women, Sanders remains a critic of identity politics and a firm believer that issues of race, while important, are not as salient and determinative as those of class. "There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they're white or black or Latino," he said. "My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view. Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity." He hastened to add that "diversity is enormously important," but there was a bigger goal: "to change society and create an economy and a government that work for all people."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Bernie, what do you mean by "working people"?
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
SaveWeyard said:
How is there confusion over what is meant by the working people/class? Like, I get that the message may be harsh for some, but he's essentially saying diversity is necessary but not sufficient.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because there's a contradictory thing going on here that has to do with Bernie having represented Vermont, the second-most rural, second-most white state in the country for a half-decade. Bernie's been representing and speaking to and speaking to a primarily white and rural audience for a very, very long time. And that's the history that colors how people are viewing the statements below, because of how the party has been changing over the past 50 decades as the Southern Strategy nationalizes.
"There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they're white or black or Latino,"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. "
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bernie's class-oriented speech is pining for a diverse "working class" coalition that cross cuts racial lines and is primarily based around economic class. But that dream of a cross-cutting coalition hasn't shown up in either 2016, 2018.... or really any election in the past half-century. Lower-income white rural areas are continuing to vote more and more for the GOP. While upper-income, diverse metropolitan areas like Ocean County, CA are the ones that were heavily flipping to the Democrats in the past election. He's been openly skeptical of these areas as a strategy, which is why his Burlington event late last year post-election sure seems to have been booked with the assumption that the Democrats would lose hard, making it a very awkward collection of guests and statements saying that the Democrats were doing it wrong while Nancy Pelosi was preparing to take the gavel.

The thing that Sanders and folks with this cross-cut mindset miss is that the biggest thing holding back progress is racism, not people's economic views. Because if someone wants a lot more social welfare benefits.... but only for white people, you are going to wind up with fewer net benefits than if that person were exchanged for someone who wants fewer social welfare benefits (but sitll more than the status quo) but for all people.
 

Deleted member 6122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
533
Mercury Fred said:
How is he becoming MORE tone deaf as he goes on? Very embarrassing to watch him shit the bed yet again on questions of race and diversity; his lack of care in his communications about diversity reveals how little he actually cares about the struggles of minorities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Did you even actually read it? I feel like if your solution to racial inequality doesn't tackle the economic inequality at the heart of America as well, you aren't really fixing anything. That's basically what he's saying.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Hylianhero777 said:
Did you even actually read it? I feel like if your solution to racial inequality doesn't tackle the economic inequality at the heart of America as well, you aren't really fixing anything. That's basically what he's saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, I read it. Sanders is a constant racial gaffe dispenser. If he wants to be taken seriously for 2020 he need to get his shit together on communicating around race. The fact the people have to sift through & translate his message says a lot about how poor of a communicator he is outside of his usual stump.
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Hylianhero777 said:
Did you even actually read it? I feel like if your solution to racial inequality doesn't tackle the economic inequality at the heart of America as well, you aren't really fixing anything. That's basically what he's saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The problem is that he has it backwards. You fundamentally have to fix the economic inequality by fixing the racial inequality, because it's the heart of the problem.
 

Deleted member 13364

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,984
Mercury Fred said:
Yes, I read it. Sanders is a constant racial gaffe dispenser. If he wants to be taken seriously for 2020 he need to get his shit together on communicating around race. The fact the people have to sift through & translate his message says a lot about how poor of a communicator he is outside of his usual stump.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What's the gaffe? Are you sure you're not confusing a gaffe with saying something you disagree with?
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Mercury Fred said:
Yes, I read it. Sanders is a constant racial gaffe dispenser. If he wants to be taken seriously for 2020 he need to get his shit together on communicating around race. The fact the people have to sift through & translate his message says a lot about how poor of a communicator he is outside of his usual stump.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I legitimately do not see a gaffe unless you think he means white people when he says "working class."
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Number of Completion said:
What's the gaffe? Are you sure you're not confusing a gaffe with saying something you disagree with?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Belittling the importance of diverse representation if it doesn't meet his metric is a gaffe.

He's continually terrible with communicating on race so I'm not surprised. I thought someone would have taught this old dog some new tricks but it's going to be the same old same old with Sanders this time around.
 

Deleted member 13364

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,984
Mercury Fred said:
Belittling the importance of diverse representation if it doesn't meet his metric is a gaffe.

He's continually terrible with communicating on race so I'm not surprised. I thought someone would have taught this old dog some new tricks but it's going to be the same old same old with Sanders this time around.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
MORE 👏 BLACK 👏 REPUBLICAN 👏 CONGRESSWOMEN
 
hydrophilic attack

hydrophilic attack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,474
Sweden
28cvyjfc.png
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Helio said:
I legitimately do not see a gaffe unless you think he means white people when he says "working class."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sanders says "Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity."

It's shitty on many levels-- it suggests that the only reason diverse candidates exist is because they're diverse, not because they're capable or accomplished or have great policy ideas. It also suggests in a backhanded way that he-- an older, white celebrity career politician-- is the arbiter of what good and thusly diverse candidates must get at his level.

Gaffe is generous; Sanders' statement veers into racism sexism and homophobia in my view.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Mercury Fred said:
Sanders says "Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity."

It's shitty on many levels-- it suggests that the only reason diverse candidates exist is because they're diverse, not because they're capable or accomplished or have great policy ideas. It also suggests in a backhanded way that he-- an older, white celebrity career politician-- is the arbiter of what good and thusly diverse candidates must get at his level.

Gaffe is generous; Sanders' statement veers into racism sexism and homophobia in my view.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're forgetting the sentence before that:

"My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. "
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Helio said:
You're forgetting the sentence before that:

"My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. "
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Include the sentence and the effect is still the same.

And speaking of strawmen, who are these mystery opponents of his who want to put forth candidates ONLY because they're diverse? Who is making that a thing?
 
Ichthyosaurus

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Hylianhero777 said:
Did you even actually read it? I feel like if your solution to racial inequality doesn't tackle the economic inequality at the heart of America as well, you aren't really fixing anything. That's basically what he's saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem is how he says it, and his history isn't helping before with the deaf to non-white people. AOC should be giving him a course for how to do this clearly and concisely.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,747
How is that when bernie says ""My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. " That's not an "all lives matter" gaffe?
 
SaveWeyard

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
Sandstar said:
How is that when bernie says ""My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. " That's not an "all lives matter" gaffe?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uh, because he's saying that we need a coalition of the working class to take down capitalist elites. I don't know how you construe "all lives matter" from that.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Kirblar said:
The thing that Sanders and folks with this cross-cut mindset miss is that the biggest thing holding back progress is racism, not people's economic views. Because if someone wants a lot more social welfare benefits.... but only for white people, you are going to wind up with fewer net benefits than if that person were exchanged for someone who wants fewer social welfare benefits (but sitll more than the status quo) but for all people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So how do we fix racism?
 
Cooking

Cooking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
it's incredible that Bernie saying we need a diverse coalition of progressives gets construed into racism and all lives matter rhetoric on this board. Truly impressive
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,747
SaveWeyard said:
Uh, because he's saying that we need a coalition of the working class to take down capitalist elites. I don't know how you construe "all lives matter" from that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

" Sanders remains a critic of identity politics and a firm believer that issues of race, while important, are not as salient and determinative as those of class. "There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they're white or black or Latino," he said. "My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view. Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity." He hastened to add that "diversity is enormously important," but there was a bigger goal: "to change society and create an economy and a government that work for all people." "
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
SaveWeyard said:
How do you fix racism?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As far as Democrats are concerned? You replace them in the coalition with less-racist people, either via primary/retirement or by realigning the coalition to replace them with reps from other districts. And the latter is what has occurred in the US House. The 2019 US House that Pelosi is overseeing is far, far less socially conservative than the 2007 version because of the nature of the continuing realignment.

The Senate, obviously, is an enormous roadblock to this.
edit: details on how the composition and marginal votes have changed:



SaveWeyard said:
Uh, because he's saying that we need a coalition of the working class to take down capitalist elites. I don't know how you construe "all lives matter" from that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The general issue is that he keeps saying things that strongly imply his fundamental worldview is that of a "colorblind" hyper-old-school class-matters-first socialist. And thus these things grate on a great deal of people because of how dated and out of touch that type of perspective is relative to modern understandings of the world.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
Status
Not open for further replies.