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hodayathink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,058
Hbomberguy's "Woke Brands" video is a much better analysis of how corporations use social issues to manufacture controversy while still acknowledging the importance of corporate social responsibility than any of RLM's supposed "anti-corporate" leanings.
People like to miss Hbomberguy's actual conclusion of that video to act like he's making a similar point to RLM, but I agree with you.

It's pretty easy to miss the conclusion of the video when you don't even start bringing up your point until 20 minutes into a 26 minute video. I have a lot off issues with that video, many of which come from just a structural lens instead of a capitalist one (I consider myself enough of a capitalist to have issues with it there as well, though), but I agree that it's a better framed critique of capitalism than anything RLM have ever put out.
 

Evan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
922
I don't know. They love Ripley/Aliens, Sarah Conor/Terminator. They'll usually say that Hollywood is using diversity for marketing's sake, not out of honesty.

Whatever the case, love their content.

I don't think most the people on here watch enough of their content to get that side of it.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,550
Them loving two female characters and using the same rhetoric disingenuous people already use to invalidate diversity doesn't actually say much when a decade ago the argument against representation was bullshit like "sex sells" & "straight white actors pull in audiences" and "it's a job so they have to pick the best people for it". Yeah Black Panther probably wasn't made because any executives at Disney/Marvel were being 100% altruistic and progressive but the film remains important for actually being representation that bucks the status quo. Things can be marketed as well as actually important for changing the way things are done. Diversity can only exist when people and companies actually make the choices to be diverse. Whether it's cynical or not doesn't matter when the entire damn system is cynical anyway.
👏
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,943
Eh, I find it difficult to fault him for this. There's a difference between bad sequels which still have some value as B-movies and cynical corporate cash-ins off the back of beloved movies. The new Ghostbusters is virtually one step removed from an Adam Sandler movie in terms of the amount of product placement and by the numbers writing.
You literally described B movies twice in this post.
Bad sequels are bad sequels most of the time because they're quick cynical corporate cash-ins.
Like why do you think Ghostbusters 2 sucked so much to begin with?
At least Sandler's filmography has a public willing to let the guy finance his and his friends' vacations.
Can't knock the hustle, it's the certainly the most honest one there is.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,348
UK
Pretty good takedown! Wish I could be this articulate and concise haha.

Even though I was a fan (and still don't really 'hate' them), I was personally always a bit bothered by the fact that they mostly reviewed American/English movies. With a few exceptions, anything that strayed too far from the American mainstream didn't seem to warrant their attention. I understand needing to talk about popular movies if you don't want to stay completely niche, but I remember them specifically mocking people for suggesting that they tackle foreign movies at some point.

Couple that with their cynicism and faux-awkwardness (especially Mike's), and it gives them this dudebro vibe, except they're movie nerds - nerdbros, if you will.

I still cherish the prequel reviews and some of their other videos, but they're pretty close-minded all in all.
Why doesnt Redlettermedia cover foreign movies? I don't follow them but if there's a clip of them specifically deriding the suggestion, I'd love to see it. Seems very discriminatory.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Is feigning a moral interest in "proper representation" to criticize and attack all representation the new "it's really about ethics in gaming journalism"?

Yup.

"Listen to us, we are telling you that you are being conned into believing brands care for you. Who needs representation when you already have examples x, y and z? #sowoke"
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,311
The abruptness of just deciding "nope, not gunna do it" definitely raises my eyebrow, because there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for just outright refusing to review the movie. But again, I don't know what his content is like and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. RLM on the other hand..
The reason he felt the need to say he wasn't interested was in part to circumvent all the "when will you review it" questions that he was inevitably going to get. But this was also before he decided to really lean into the whole movie thing. I assume he'd have a different attitude if he knew he was basically going to have a movie channel.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Last month was fun for gay pride... "These brands are only doing it as a marketing ploy!!" Neat... and you've never once shown solidarity even cynically, so you're worth even less than that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,224
Well I am sorry for liking something you apparently don't.

Please return to your circular discussion about how awful they are and don't mind me.

You came into a thread about how these guys have said some suspect shit and were all "Yeah, I'm a big fan." What does that add? Where did you hope the discussion would go because of that comment?
 

Typhonsentra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,979
You came into a thread about how these guys have said some suspect shit and were all "Yeah, I'm a big fan." What does that add? Where did you hope the discussion would go because of that comment?
That I like their channel and feel it has value. In a thread where as the OP states the intention of the thread is to open a wider discussion on whether or not it should be acceptable to discuss and consume said content on the site I'd say it is perfectly relevant.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,696
Arizona
Well I am sorry for liking something you apparently don't.

Please return to your circular discussion about how awful they are and don't mind me.
What you could have done is made any kind of argument, any whatsoever, in defense of RLM. Believe it or not, despite your obviously ohsothrough review of this thread, there are many people doing just that. But you came into a 20 page discussion with a robust and well-sourced OP disclosing various instances of suspect behavior, ignored literally everything, and shit out the absolute nothing that it is "i like thing" and nothing else, then have the gall to pretend like you have any sort of standing when called on it.

If you weren't interested in a discussion, you shouldn't have posted.

That I like their channel and feel it has value. In a thread where as the OP states the intention of the thread is to open a wider discussion on whether or not it should be acceptable to discuss and consume said content on the site I'd say it is perfectly relevant.
"i like thing" isn't a "wider discussion", it's a trash-tier drive-by. Even if this topic was specifically a defense of RLM your post would have served no purpose.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,395
That I like their channel and feel it has value. In a thread where as the OP states the intention of the thread is to open a wider discussion on whether or not it should be acceptable to discuss and consume said content on the site I'd say it is perfectly relevant.

But... you didn't contribute to the discussion. Whether their content is good or not isn't really the point. Whether you like their content is not the point. The point is the ideas they present and their social acceptability or more so the lack thereof. And whether others should accept that. Your comment does not engage with any of these points in any way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,224
That I like their channel and feel it has value. In a thread where as the OP states the intention of the thread is to open a wider discussion on whether or not it should be acceptable to discuss and consume said content on the site I'd say it is perfectly relevant.

So you wanted to have a discussion about how you personally like the channel while completely ignoring every point the OP brought up? Like I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but this just comes across as you coming in here and shitting up the thread for no reason.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,348
UK
Ok guys, settle down!

Yes, yes, I realize you have me figured out and I know where we're headed. But no, I don't think it's arrogant to stand up for something and be passionate about diversity. It's got absolutely nothing to do with that. And no, I don't believe women have to be giggly and inoffensive.

It's just that her general demeanor comes off as somewhat standoffish. The WIRED video is a good example. Or the ET interview.



2:30, 3:38, 5:00

Or this bit from the RLM video:

12:44

Again, I'm not talking about what she's actually saying. But that somewhat uppity body language rubs me the wrong way.

That being said, I'm socially awkward, so maybe people who exude confidence generally seem a bit unlikeable to me.

I was aware that saying this means I'll be lumped in with the "feminism has turned Brie Larson into an ugly SJW!!!" crowd.

The fact that you looked up examples of even just her body language (also inaccurately reading it) as if you're some armchair psychologist/therapist
(although they never pick out body language to criticise and judge, they do it to make person aware if they weren't already of how they come across when saying certain things)
and didn't bother to find similar examples for the male co-stars which you can easily do, comes across as sexist. Reflect on that and hope you improve from the awareness in your week off from here. The irony of a Daria avatar is not lost.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Well I am sorry for liking something you apparently don't.

Please return to your circular discussion about how awful they are and don't mind me.
This is some bad faith bullshit right here. You're perfectly aware that just posting "I like them" is a complete dismissal of what's listed in the OP. It's a drive by. You're not engaging with the discussion.

As Chug said, there's an entire thread dedicated to ignoring these issues and consuming their content without a second thought/cheering them on.

If you like them or don't find what's listed in the OP problematic, maybe share why.
 
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Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,852
I watched a lot of Half in the Bag for horror movie reviews and have watched them for a couple of years but that Captain Marvel review was a red flag. (I haven't seen all the original things posted in this thread before) It is okay to not like the movie and criticize its faults but spending so much time on your feelings towards an actress isn't a review of the film it is pandering to an audience of angry people. I have noticed this a bit with a few Youtube channels I enjoyed lately, a lot of them are going in this direction because it is easy views from an angry base of people. It is like they google what the latest controversy is in this circle and bandwaggon it for easy money. It isn't a respectable way to make a living.

Also Rich seems like he has issues and channels them into 90's shock jock humor which doesn't fly with most people anymore.
 

Typhonsentra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,979
I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with the OP that they are wrong on diversity in media, in particular on feminism. At least when it comes to racial diversity they somewhat acknowledge that it is a net positive that films like Black Panther exist but I know from viewing Mike and Jay are definitely to the right of me on this and most likely most issues of any importance.

Really, I just saw a lot of negativity towards something I enjoy and wanted to voice something positive about it. HitB has been something I have watched for over 6 years now and is something I like quite a lot and look forward to. I don't have anything more meaningful to say about it beyond that but wanted to say so. Not every response has to delve into an extended argument.
 

Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,852
I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with the OP that they are wrong on diversity in media, in particular on feminism. At least when it comes to racial diversity they somewhat acknowledge that it is a net positive that films like Black Panther exist but I know from viewing Mike and Jay are definitely to the right of me on this and most likely most issues of any importance.

Really, I just saw a lot of negativity towards something I enjoy and wanted to voice something positive about it. HitB has been something I have watched for over 6 years now and is something I like quite a lot and look forward to. I don't have anything more meaningful to say about it beyond that but wanted to say so. Not every response has to delve into an extended argument.

It's okay, they make some good / enjoyable content. They have also said some questionable things in some of their videos. A lot of the discussion in this thread revolves around the evidence provided and pondering the question of, should we really be giving these guys ad revenue by watching their content and talking about it? It shouldn't be a discussion about banning them imo but everyone needs to make their own decision on who they support when questionable things are done, like, ethically / morally can you support people who may or may not have certain views? If you can then you either don't think the evidence provided is clear enough, you share similar views or you can overlook it for personal enjoyment.
 
Dec 8, 2018
71
Was my most watched youtube channel by far and I think I had seen uh... everything? they had put out but haven't watched a video since their weird and numerous takes on Captain Marvel. Just got to be too awkward and felt forced. Like they felt obligated to stop the video and just shit on the actress because they needed to share their so important opinion about her. I don't think this was even in the OP, and yeah I knew about all the OP things, but I guess my breaking point was a bit further. I've just felt no desire to watch their stuff. Oh well.
 

Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,852
Was my most watched youtube channel by far and I think I had seen uh... everything? they had put out but haven't watched a video since their weird and numerous takes on Captain Marvel. Just got to be too awkward and felt forced. Like they felt obligated to stop the video and just shit on the actress because they needed to share their so important opinion about her. I don't think this was even in the OP, and yeah I knew about all the OP things, but I guess my breaking point was a bit further. I've just felt no desire to watch their stuff. Oh well.

That was a big turnoff for me too. I agree as well, I think it felt forced. I think they were pandering to a base of angry people for easy money and in some ways that could be worse than just having those views yourself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,205
Interesting to see how many people readily concede that they're bigoted and misogynistic but fully admit they'll keep giving them clicks. For me I'm not able to separate the ideas and politics, particularly when their whole raison d'etre is to talk and share their perspectives.
 

Reversed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,383
I haven't seen them since they got really obnoxious with star wars on that nerd podcast, and the obsessive take on the new ghostbusters, starring mike as scientist man, was a red alarm. It seems to be the same case for captain marvel, an ok movie with action that outstands from the rest of the MCU (that's kinda close to a compliment), from what I'm reading.

It's a shame because I enjoyed their best of the worst sections, even though it also had its molds here and there.
 
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Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
Why doesnt Redlettermedia cover foreign movies? I don't follow them but if there's a clip of them specifically deriding the suggestion, I'd love to see it. Seems very discriminatory.

I know, right? That's my point: they just dismiss them outright. I have the feeling that Jay might be a bit more open-minded towards them, but who knows. Certainly doesn't help their case at any rate.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,348
UK
At least when it comes to racial diversity they somewhat acknowledge that it is a net positive that films like Black Panther exist but I know from viewing Mike and Jay are definitely to the right of me on this and most likely most issues of any importance.

Really, I just saw a lot of negativity towards something I enjoy and wanted to voice something positive about it. HitB has been something I have watched for over 6 years now and is something I like quite a lot and look forward to. I don't have anything more meaningful to say about it beyond that but wanted to say so. Not every response has to delve into an extended argument.
In RLM's review of Black Panther, they go on to criticise anything in the film that isn't Eurocentric democracy by saying Wakanda is too primitive but their technology is too "outlandish, too overdone":
Jay: "if they're this advanced why are they sticking to these primitive traditional things?"
Mike: "yeah, super primitive!...I get it they would include African culture stuff but I thought that was going to be in just the look of the film...I thought Wakanda would be more of an advanced society that had sort of like African flair...I wanted Wakanda to be above that"

Then Mike realises Wakanda being isolationist and wanting to preserve their culture, explains why the nation is like that. Like, they put all these uninformed points forward, and then at the end, they start thinking why such and such is so and so and finally get to the point that their relatively informed viewers already know. It's redundant and pointless.

Finally at 17min of the 26 minute review do they acknowledge that representation is good because they're "rational people", but with a cynical caveat.

Jay: "Black Panther is a good movie but people need to look at the bigger picture a little bit here...produced by the Disney corporation to sell action figures"
Mike: "Representation is good as long as you don't think too hard about it because this is a movie about how magic space rocks made a society, it's not going to change the world"

Then finally they come back down to reality from their captain obvious cynical clouds (20:10):
Mike: "It will change the movie industry where we have more representation, directors actors, writers, the whole business. It will change that."

You wanting to just do a drive-by positive post about RLM (there's a RLM OT just for that where you can consume the content without being questioned!), gives me a feeling that you've formed a parasocial relationship with RLM as a big fan and somehow feel bad that your source of enjoyment is being criticised so because of this relationship you have with them. So you feel the need to defend them as if they're reading this thread and would appreciate it. However, many people do this in bad faith or to troll in threads where the content creator has done bad stuff, but because there are fans who can ignore all the problematic stuff because they don't want to care or thinks nothing is wrong and might share the same views so they just post "I like them! They're great!" so you'll be lumped in with them.
 

gir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,019
It's a fair critique, sth to keep in mind while watching and would expect each viewer to make their own mind up on each topic on whether they agree or disagree with RLM. Doesn't make it wrong to watch them though, no piece of media has ever existed without critique or demonstration of the writer's bias, would be impossible
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
No person of subject should be banned from this forum. We're all adults here, and shouldn't be treated like children.
Obviously it's their direct content what should be banned.

Just like for Randolph or that ex-Polygon employee (whom we are able to discuss without getting a ban); Era "shouldn't provide a platform" for RLM videos.
 
Oct 2, 2018
3,902
Why doesnt Redlettermedia cover foreign movies? I don't follow them but if there's a clip of them specifically deriding the suggestion, I'd love to see it. Seems very discriminatory.

Why does them not reviewing foreign movies make them discriminatory? Jeremy jahns and most of the popular culture movie review shows (fandom included) rarely if ever discuss foreign language films
 

derder

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
371
I've been following them for quite some time. I've found Mike and Jay's reviews to be insightful.

Rich has always rubbed me the wrong way. Most of your snippets involve rich. Id be fine if they let him go.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,165
RLM are just a bunch of "liberal" white dudes, they live in a bubble of their white, straight, male world and do little to think outside of it. And that colors their opinion on everything as they view all attempts at "diversity," especially celebrating diversity, through their cynical lens. The only member of the crew whose not like that is Jack, but Jack isn't in much besides BoTW now that PreviouslyRecorded is dead. Jack actually tries to expose himself to shit outside his bubble and be more of a liberal advocate.

Everyone else is just cynical, white "liberal."

I still watch them. But, I keep this knowledge in my mind when I watch their opinion on anything.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
It's been an interesting experience to watch people handwave a long list of bigoted shit with receipts and timestamps that would get folks permabanned from this forum a hundred times over.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
People are willing to overlook racism and sexism when its convenient for them, you see it all the time. People being willing to stand up to racism and sexism only when it's easy is sadly not a new thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
If you can't get people to unsubscribe to a youtube channel with this evidence, you can be damn sure they won't do anything to address their asshole friends and family either when they casually spew bigoted bullshit.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
If you can't get people to unsubscribe to a youtube channel with this evidence, you can be damn sure they won't do anything to address their asshole friends and family either when they casually spew bigoted bullshit.
Bingo. A lot of people claim to be against racism/sexism but won't lift a finger to do anything about it unless it doesn't effect them at all to do so.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Obviously it's their direct content what should be banned.

Just like for Randolph or that ex-Polygon employee (whom we are able to discuss without getting a ban); Era "shouldn't provide a platform" for RLM videos.
Ehhh. Even then, i'm not really down with that.

Because you could not link their shite, but still not be allowed to talk about them in Gaming or Etc. Because you could argue that you're still providing them with a platform.

That's why i'm not down with blanket banning things on this site.
It's been an interesting experience to watch people handwave a long list of bigoted shit with receipts and timestamps that would get folks permabanned from this forum a hundred times over.
Apart from the one Re:view. I haven't watch anything of theirs for over a year now.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,283
I used to be subscribed to them. Used to watch a LOT of their stuff. But the Wonder Woman review put me off. I unsubbed from there. I would watch some of their stuff after but then came the Captain Marvel review..... that was fucking terrible. I didn't even like that movie, but watching their video made me feel a bit icky.

So I haven't seen anything by them since. I may still watch one or two things from them in the future, but they get a permanent side eye from me.
 

Transistor

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,316
Washington, D.C.
I was in love with their Best of the Worst series and the original Plinkett reviews. I never liked Half in the Bag at all, and never watched any of the Re:Views. I always knew Rich was a shit heel, but some of the content (like their respect of Cynthia Rothrock and why she wasn't a star) made me think they weren't all bad.

Unfortunately, the evidence in here has made me realize otherwise and they've officially lost a subscriber