Armed Neo-Nazis Crash Detroit Pride with Police Escort (see staff post)

OP
OP
Kinsei

Kinsei

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,108
going through this last page i'm surprised the left wing is giving up the police to the far right. this is how the far right gains the institutional power and structure to suppress their victims. saying 'fuck all police' is just playing into their hands giving them uncontested ground in the culture war. just look at how trump claims the police and military. op could have easily framed the police in this story as protecting the pride parade from gun-totting racists but chose to do the opposite, equating the police to those racists. trump talks about fake news and we laugh but op is basically fake news, and what's the point?
Cops have been tools for white supremacists since the beginning. Let's not forget that American police have their origins with slave patrols and night watches.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
I see your point but you still can't look at this and not think the police are an institutional threat to LGBTQ people. What needs to happen here is not protection, it's mass arrests of Nazi filth at the very least.
You're being ridiculous.

This isn't protecting Nazi's. Are you ignoring that these fascists have rifles? The police aren't protecting them, they are protecting everyone who is surrounding them so a Nazi shit head doesn't decide he feels threatened and blows a persons head off in "self defense"

Do you think the police are sympathizing with mass murderers when they escort high profile accused people to court?

I can understand people are angry that this even exists, but it really shouldn't take more than a few seconds of critical thinking to understand why it's not a bad thing to have a police perimeter around armed fascists.

And no, in 2019 police are not an institutional threat to LGBTQ people. The threat to us are those in legislature who are refusing us equal rights and those who want to give biggots the legal authority to deny us service and protection from discrimination in the public and private workforce.
 

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
ps4, pc
When has the American police ever stood up for the left wing? The institution itself enforces white supremacy.
historically yes, doesn't mean they should or always have to. i'm just gobsmacked the left is so easy and quick to give up law enforcement to the far right. same with the military. if any institution needs more left wingers it is these two, but you won't know it from this thread. its practically a lost cause here.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
You're being ridiculous.

This isn't protecting Nazi's. Are you ignoring that these fascists have rifles? The police aren't protecting them, they are protecting everyone who is surrounding them so a Nazi shit head doesn't decide he feels threatened and blows a persons head off in "self defense"

Do you think the police are sympathizing with mass murderers when they escort high profile accused people to court?

I can understand people are angry that this even exists, but it really shouldn't take more than a few seconds of critical thinking to understand why it's not a bad thing to have a police perimeter around armed fascists.
And tell me why the fuck are we trusting the police to do their job right when they can't even keep armed fascists from fucking organizing to intimidate a Pride parade?

These Nazis should feel fucking scared to be a Nazi, scared enough to not even show their worthless faces around. The very fact they've been allowed to assemble is a failure on the police's part.

Edit: even shorter to the point, there's no other context in which you'd condone police deliberately protecting someone who's armed and in public with the explicit purpose of exacting violence on (especially marginalized) people.

It's more important to you that Nazis feel safe in organizing as armed factions than LGBTQ people feeling safe in existing.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,566
Reminder that a plotpoint of BlacKKKlansman was that the lead character had to personally guard/protect David Duke at one point in an official law enforcement capacity.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
And tell me why the fuck are we trusting the police to do their job right when they can't even keep armed fascists from fucking organizing to intimidate a Pride parade?

These Nazis should feel fucking scared to be a Nazi, scared enough to not even show their worthless faces around. The very fact they've been allowed to assemble is a failure on the police's part.
What part of "the Nazi's have rifles" are you not understanding?

They aren't scared, they forwardly wanted a reason to start shooting, just like in Charlottesville.

In a post on Sunday (June 9), Colucci said: “We told the police we didn’t need or want them there, they insisted.”
They didn't want police protection, they wanted someone to try and start a fight so they can start shooting.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
What part of "the Nazi's have rifles" are you not understanding?
Do police just throw up their hands when there are armed criminals going around free, killing people? Should police not respond to mass shooters because the mass shooters have a gun?

Hell if you're going to argue the police is too weak to apprehend a bunch of armed Nazis, I'd assume the military has a responsibility of preventing domestic terrorism.

In short, what part of "you don't have to let armed Nazis assemble in public" are YOU not understanding?

To put it even more simply, if you don't fucking let Nazis assemble, you won't have to have protection for Nazis assembling.

Another difference-- a police escorted convict is handcuffed and rendered incapable of full free movement. An armed Nazi isn't.

i'd say its not the police's place to decide who gets to march or not. that is up to the city, town, whatever. i'm sure you won't want the police to decide these things if the shoe was on the other foot.
I'd like to think "literal armed Neo-Nazis should not be allowed to assemble" is something every branch of government should support. The police are supposed to protect the people, and if they are allowing Nazis to assemble as an armed faction, they can't be said to be fulfilling their duty in any capacity.
 

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
ps4, pc
One of them actually had a rainbow badge, at least

this should not be buried in this thread. hey op, are you finally going to revise your post to reflect the facts? that there is no evidence the police were protecting the neo-nazis? that the neo-nazis did not want the police to be present? that one of the police actually showed a symbol of pride support on his official gear? or are we still stuck in this 'fuck the police' circle jerk?
 

gigantor21

Member
Oct 29, 2017
971
This Pride month has been absolute dogshit for the LGBT community on pretty much every front, hasn't it? And it's only the 9th.
 
OP
OP
Kinsei

Kinsei

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,108
this should not be buried in this thread. hey op, are you finally going to revise your post to reflect the facts? that there is no evidence the police were protecting the neo-nazis? that the neo-nazis did not want the police to be present? that one of the police actually showed a symbol of pride support on his official gear? or are we still stuck in this 'fuck the police' circle jerk?
Oh one of them had a rainbow pin. Whoop de doo.
 

jim-jam bongs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
110
this should not be buried in this thread. hey op, are you finally going to revise your post to reflect the facts? that there is no evidence the police were protecting the neo-nazis? that the neo-nazis did not want the police to be present? that one of the police actually showed a symbol of pride support on his official gear? or are we still stuck in this 'fuck the police' circle jerk?
There's literal video of the cops forming a barrier to allow the Nazis to march. The fact that a cop would do that while wearing a pride badge might give you a good idea about why a lot of LGBTQ+ people don't want cops at pride.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
8,545
Not America
IDGAF if I am banned but I will echo the best words pertaining to Nazism I had ever heard- The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

The fucking balls on these cunts to come out and crash pride month.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
Do police just throw up their hands when there are armed criminals going around free, killing people? Should police not respond to mass shooters because the mass shooters have a gun?

Hell if you're going to argue the police is too weak to apprehend a bunch of armed Nazis, I'd assume the military has a responsibility of preventing domestic terrorism.

In short, what part of "you don't have to let armed Nazis assemble in public" are YOU not understanding?

To put it even more simply, if you don't fucking let Nazis assemble, you won't have to have protection for Nazis assembling.

Another difference-- a police escorted convict is handcuffed and rendered incapable of full free movement. An armed Nazi isn't.
What the fuck are you even talking about.

This wasn't illegal, this is a fucked up situation where fascists have the unfortunate right to form protests (and I'm not even sure if this counts as a protest considering like 7 people showed up).

You can't just arrest protesters who have a legal right to form and assemble. The police's job aren't to install our social justice, it's their job to deal with half a dozen nazis legally walking down a sidewalk, legally armed, attempting instigate instigate people into causing violence against them so they can "stand your ground" (Michigan is a Stand Your Ground state).

The police know that that's why they are walking around during a gay pride parade, they aren't stupid. They know these people are walking around with guns to try and goad someone or a group of people into giving them a possible legal reason to "defend" themselves.

You're mad, I get that, but you're completely ignoring the actual laws that exist and that police are there to prevent a violence from breaking out.

"The City of Boston cannot deny a permit based on an organization's values," he said.

Walsh, a Democrat elected in 2013, said the organizers of the 'Straight Pride Parade" don't have a permit yet, but are "working to amend their application" for permits to host a public event. He did not say what those amendments entail.
This is how protests work. It's very shaky ground to outright deny permits based on the values of an organization. If you can't deny the legal right for assembly of a bunch of armed nazis during a large gay pride parade, the next best thing is to have an armed police force isolate them and make sure nothing happens that would cause violence to break out.

Obviously the best situation is to just deny their legal right to assemble. If I had my way it would be law to ban nazi and white nationalist assembly. I don't make laws and we don't live in a world where the 1st Amendment is so easily circumvented in a legal manner.

In this situation the best possible solution to the problem at hand is what happened. Police isolating the Nazi assembly and not allowing anyone to get close to them in order to prevent a possible life ending situation from happening.
 

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
ps4, pc
There's literal video of the cops forming a barrier to allow the Nazis to march. The fact that a cop would do that while wearing a pride badge might give you a good idea about why a lot of LGBTQ+ people don't want cops at pride.
what's the alternative? letting a group of heavily armed neo-nazis march around trying to find any excuse to start shooting up the place?
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
Actually after some thought I think I agree with everyone.

What should have happened is a bunch of armed fascists just stroll into a gay pride parade, with no cops around isolating the armed fascists from a large assembly of people celebrating their right to exist.

How could I be so foolish!
 

Orwell

Member
Jun 6, 2019
211
Replace the armed Nazis with armed black people and substitute a conservative rally for the Pride march, and tell me if the police would provide the former with an armed escort. Those of you saying the police just HAD to do this aren’t fooling anyone.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,142
historically yes, doesn't mean they should or always have to. i'm just gobsmacked the left is so easy and quick to give up law enforcement to the far right. same with the military. if any institution needs more left wingers it is these two, but you won't know it from this thread. its practically a lost cause here.
What can we do? They support their own, there isn't any cops speaking out against this. They murder, they lie, how far should we be going out of our way to convert people who have no interest in being converted? Once you start killing people, yeah, it kind of is a lost cause, I don't see how they come back from that ever unless the whole system is torched and rebuilt.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
this should not be buried in this thread. hey op, are you finally going to revise your post to reflect the facts? that there is no evidence the police were protecting the neo-nazis? that the neo-nazis did not want the police to be present? that one of the police actually showed a symbol of pride support on his official gear? or are we still stuck in this 'fuck the police' circle jerk?
I just fucking hope that someday you'll look back at what you just wrote and feel as embarrassed as you should be.
What the fuck are you even talking about.

This wasn't illegal, this is a fucked up situation where fascists have the unfortunate right to form protests (and I'm not even sure if this counts as a protest considering like 7 people showed up).
First, legit question-- are assemblies like these literally allowed to be armed to the point of intimidation (and by your admission, are part of the reason why the police have to protect them, because they are a literal danger to the Pride parade)?

Secondly, then the police are kneecapped and practically useless, so the only thing that really changes is that it's the government who's at the most fault for the police being near fucking useless for protecting the people.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,913
What can we do? They support their own, there isn't any cops speaking out against this. They murder, they lie, how far should we be going out of our way to convert people who have no interest in being converted? Once you start killing people, yeah, it kind of is a lost cause, I don't see how they come back from that ever unless the whole system is torched and rebuilt.
Replace the armed Nazis with armed black people and substitute a conservative rally for the Pride march, and tell me if the police would provide the former with an armed escort. Those of you saying the police just HAD to do this aren’t fooling anyone.
So many times I've seen police straight up attack Anti-fascist protestors, but not the other way around. I can see their point, but i think our reactions are warranted. It's not a good look on their part to let them assemble.
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,559
Imagine if it was a counter protest from Black Lives Matter supporters. We'd be hearing shit how the Nazi had permits and permission.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
First, legit question-- are assemblies like these literally allowed to be armed to the point of intimidation (and by your admission, are part of the reason why the police have to protect them, because they are a literal danger to the Pride parade)?

Secondly, then the police are kneecapped and practically useless, so the only thing that really changes is that it's the government who's at the most fault for the police being near fucking useless for protecting the people.
It's legal to assemble
It's legal to open carry long rifles

At that point unless the permit is denied (and it's very shaky to deny a permit because of the views and morals of the organization that is attempting to get a permit, but in some cases you can argue that it's a security risk).

I can't speak for the details of this, we don't even know if they needed a permit in the first place considering how small of a group they had. If they didn't need a permit to protest then there is literally nothing that the city or police could have done outside of exactly what they did.

Again, the best outcome outside of denying their right to assemble is to do exactly what the police decided to do.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
Actually after some thought I think I agree with everyone.

What should have happened is a bunch of armed fascists just stroll into a gay pride parade, with no cops around isolating the armed fascists from a large assembly of people celebrating their right to exist.

How could I be so foolish!
Of fucking course we should just allow Nazis to arm themselves and roam around in the first place, literally terrorizing the place! How stupid I was to think we should not renege on LGBTQ people's right to exist, when I should've realized that Nazi people getting to be literal terrorists is far more important and worth defending than others' puny human rights!
 

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
ps4, pc
What can we do? They support their own, there isn't any cops speaking out against this. They murder, they lie, how far should we be going out of our way to convert people who have no interest in being converted? Once you start killing people, yeah, it kind of is a lost cause, I don't see how they come back from that ever unless the whole system is torched and rebuilt.
i don't have any hard or fast solutions other than to encourage more representation in police forces. more women, more minorities, more police who live in the neighborhoods that they patrol, etc. i don't know, i only know it doesn't help in the long run to give up police support to only right wingers.
 

jim-jam bongs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
110
what's the alternative? letting a group of heavily armed neo-nazis march around trying to find any excuse to start shooting up the place?
Actually after some thought I think I agree with everyone.

What should have happened is a bunch of armed fascists just stroll into a gay pride parade, with no cops around isolating the armed fascists from a large assembly of people celebrating their right to exist.

How could I be so foolish!
This is an official event, sanctioned by the city. There would have been rules and guidelines around participation which were negotiated and agreed between the organisers and the city. If you think the cops wouldn't have permission to turn people away or deny them the right to participate for "discretionary" reasons then you're nuts.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,453
You're being ridiculous.

This isn't protecting Nazi's. Are you ignoring that these fascists have rifles? The police aren't protecting them, they are protecting everyone who is surrounding them so a Nazi shit head doesn't decide he feels threatened and blows a persons head off in "self defense"
When the police are literally allowing literal fucking nazis to carry weapons around to a pride parade then there is something very very wrong with America.
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,431
Man that passion that people put into protecting their free speech and guns is amazing. It’s like those are the only two amendments that matter... fuck the rest of them.
 

Toddhunter

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,633
Meanwhile the Bethesda conference celebrates killing nazis with a friend in an alternate 1980 where nazis walk around openly.

Crowd cheers!

Things are fucking weird.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,142
i don't have any hard or fast solutions other than to encourage more representation in police forces. more women, more minorities, more police who live in the neighborhoods that they patrol, etc. i don't know, i only know it doesn't help in the long run to give up police support to only right wingers.
You can encourage all day and nothing is going to change, they don't give a fuck. You think they are chomping at the bit to hire minorities and women? We're talking about a systemic problem that's over 100 years in the making, they are rotten to the core at this current point. They are effectlively above the law and reproach. Anyone who gets into that system gets corrupted to some extent, even good people who mean well.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
Maybe that's for the best so we might actually set a precedent that it isn't okay to do this shit.
There is no legal world where a city can legally deny the right to assemble because of the political views of a group of people.

I'm sorry but that's never ever going to happen in America.

Go read up on the ACLU's stance on this


When City Permit Ordinances are Invalid

ACLU said city permit ordinances are unconstitutional
  • If they are unreasonably or unnecessarily burdensome
  • If they prevent protesters from communicating their messages
  • If permits are selectively enforced
  • If a government discriminates against a group for the content of its speech
“This means that city officials may not impose additional burdens or costs on you because your message is controversial,” ACLU concluded.

Punch and assault un-armed nazis and assemble massive counter protests against "unite the right" style rallies.

Let the police escort and isolate 8 armed nazis who are trying to stir up shit during an event. It's not the police's job to ignore city ordinance or legal assembly that was approved by the city (which the poster above said it was approved by the city)
 
OP
OP
Kinsei

Kinsei

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,108
There is no legal world where a city can legally deny the right to assemble because of the political views of a group of people.

I'm sorry but that's never ever going to happen in America.

Go read up on the ACLU's stance on this


When City Permit Ordinances are Invalid

ACLU said city permit ordinances are unconstitutional
  • If they are unreasonably or unnecessarily burdensome
  • If they prevent protesters from communicating their messages
  • If permits are selectively enforced
  • If a government discriminates against a group for the content of its speech
“This means that city officials may not impose additional burdens or costs on you because your message is controversial,” ACLU concluded.
Threatening to kill people is not a political view.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
If police cannot identify literal swastika carrying armed individuals trying to protest against a Pride parade as a threat to security then they're all fucking idiots and cowards. Cops can shoot mass shooters on scene to ensure the security of other people, and hell, we all fucking know they can and will get away with killing far more innocent people.

These cops are people as well, and that's why they fucking know what a Nazi looks like and what they fucking stand for.

Cops are allowed to shoot mass shooters, etc. on sight, so they've got enough of a brain to apprehend or at least drive away an armed fucking Nazi.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,142
And then the city gets sued and then someone makes a thread in a few months about the ACLU attempting to protect the rights of these people to assemble
The ACLU has done some shitty things, I don't think they would step up for them in this case though, but someone would
However, the organization has reevaluated its criteria for accepting new free speech cases, with a renewed focus on the potential for violence. Romero said the ACLU has now made it clear that it won't represent individuals who want to bring guns to rallies.

They have new guidelines on the cases they take on after everyone called their asses out after Charlottesville.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
And tell me why the fuck are we trusting the police to do their job right when they can't even keep armed fascists from fucking organizing to intimidate a Pride parade?

These Nazis should feel fucking scared to be a Nazi, scared enough to not even show their worthless faces around. The very fact they've been allowed to assemble is a failure on the police's part.

Edit: even shorter to the point, there's no other context in which you'd condone police deliberately protecting someone who's armed and in public with the explicit purpose of exacting violence on (especially marginalized) people.

It's more important to you that Nazis feel safe in organizing as armed factions than LGBTQ people feeling safe in existing.
There's a reason I had that person on ignore. It's not worth the time.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
The ACLU has done some shitty things, I don't think they would step up for them in this case though, but someone would



They have new guidelines on the cases they take on after everyone called their asses out after Charlottesville.
Well that's good, because they shouldn't be stanning and defending assemblies like Charlottesville, or this for the matter.

It's insane that they have a history of defending groups who's political end-game is to end the rights of anyone who basically isn't straight and white, but that's a discussion for another day.
 

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
ps4, pc
You can encourage all day and nothing is going to change, they don't give a fuck. You think they are chomping at the bit to hire minorities and women? We're talking about a systemic problem that's over 100 years in the making, they are rotten to the core at this current point. They are effectlively above the law and reproach. Anyone who gets into that system gets corrupted to some extent, even good people who mean well.
i'm encouraging the left to not completely give up policing to right and far right culture. i feel like i'm going in circles with this so i'll just leave that as my final thought. g'night.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,335
If police cannot identify literal swastika carrying armed individuals trying to protest against a Pride parade as a threat to security then they're all fucking idiots and cowards. Cops can shoot mass shooters on scene to ensure the security of other people, and hell, we all fucking know they can and will get away with killing far more innocent people.

These cops are people as well, and that's why they fucking know what a Nazi looks like and what they fucking stand for.

Cops are allowed to shoot mass shooters, etc. on sight, so they've got enough of a brain to apprehend or at least drive away an armed fucking Nazi.
Not really sure if there is a point of even responding to you if you constantly ignore the very simple fact that it's not the polices job to decide what legal protest permits to enforce or not. If the city approved the permit then the police's job is to honor that permit, and in this case it looks like a key part of the agreement was to dispatch armed police to isolate the nazis during their walk around the city in order to minimize and de-escalate anything possible situations.

The fact you're conflating a mass shooting event to an armed protest just tells me you're not full grasping how these things work and how, on a legal basis, it's very much a muddy grey area.

Again, the alternative to the situation where the city approved the permit is there are no police, there are no-one to keep the nazis isolated, and they can walk around a city with nobody preventing anything from happening during a gay pride parade.

The latter is fucking horrifying and I'm stunned so many people seem to be advocating for that alternative to happen when they say "Nazis should be afraid, they shouldn't be protected", thinking that the police are protecting the armed group of fascists.

There's a reason I had that person on ignore. It's not worth the time.
It's dangerous to have people burst your political bubble!
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
You can encourage all day and nothing is going to change, they don't give a fuck. You think they are chomping at the bit to hire minorities and women? We're talking about a systemic problem that's over 100 years in the making, they are rotten to the core at this current point. They are effectlively above the law and reproach. Anyone who gets into that system gets corrupted to some extent, even good people who mean well.
I mean this sincerely, I fucking wish the police would use that leverage they (unjustly) have to you know, protect the people who actually need protecting.
 

Powdered Egg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,976
You're being ridiculous.

This isn't protecting Nazi's. Are you ignoring that these fascists have rifles? The police aren't protecting them, they are protecting everyone who is surrounding them so a Nazi shit head doesn't decide he feels threatened and blows a persons head off in "self defense"

Do you think the police are sympathizing with mass murderers when they escort high profile accused people to court?

I can understand people are angry that this even exists, but it really shouldn't take more than a few seconds of critical thinking to understand why it's not a bad thing to have a police perimeter around armed fascists.

And no, in 2019 police are not an institutional threat to LGBTQ people
. The threat to us are those in legislature who are refusing us equal rights and those who want to give biggots the legal authority to deny us service and protection from discrimination in the public and private workforce.
So the people who don't want police at Pride are delusional?
 

jim-jam bongs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
110
i'm encouraging the left to not completely give up policing to right and far right culture. i feel like i'm going in circles with this so i'll just leave that as my final thought. g'night.
The left is right to give up policing in the sense that current incarnation of policing in our countries is one which exists to uphold the rights of the wealthy while making profits off the poor through fines and the for-profit prison system. That doesn't mean we should abandon the idea of justice in a society, but is more a reflection of the fact that the current system doesn't encourage justice (to put it mildly).