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LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
16,519
Well, since we don't any of the Avenger's use Tony's gauntlet for a single stone and only for using all of them at once to "snap" I just kept thinking why not use just use the stone individually against Thanos.

Even using a single stone would have probably killed Tony. Normal humans can't use an infinity stone, which was made clear as early as guardians of the galaxy 1 when the collectors slave exploded on trying.
Tony might as well go all in and use all 6 for the instant effect since that's the case.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Then your post makes no sense. How am I supposed to know that you saying this:

"Actually, Ragnorok is correct. Also, notice what he is mentalizing BEFORE putting the glove: "Everyone goes back home" is precisely what he says before his snap. Not "go back to where they were exactly "

Is you expressing that Hulk, when saying "home", does not actually mean "home" but actually means, "I'm going to bring back people, but also put them in the safest possible location, and if they were in a relatively safe location, I'm going to live them there. And I'm also going through trillions of possible scenarios to make it so everyone makes it out alive.".

That reads as you saying that he literally meant home, and more so if we read Ragnarok's post you're replying to. Which is why I and JB1981 both took it as you being 100% literal.
I'm saying that for a very brief moment in time, Thanos, Hulk and Iron Man were omnipotent. So yes, it's clearly figuratively. You are the one that took it literally. Falcon came from the same portal than Panther, Shuri and Okoye. He isn't from Wakanda, but was snapped there. Same for Wanda, Bucky and Groot, that came up from the same portal I believe. Clearly, I think you understand that "bringing everyone back home" means that Hulk thought about bringing them back relatively safely. It's not a stretch at all when you know the extent of what the six infinity stones can accomplish together.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,704
Watched it but I had a hard time enjoying the movie when I saw Iron Man's death coming from back in 2018 when it was announced his contract with Marvel won't be getting renewed.

I kind of wish business news like that wasn't revealed. It's got nothing to do with the movie promotion like a trailer or interview and only serves to warn the viewer that a send of for the character is incoming. It was clear as day that this was going to be capitalised in some way for dramatic effect.

As a result I felt more shock for Tony's near death in Infinity War because that I didn't see coming.
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was never said that RDJ was outright not renewing his contract with Marvel, just that his contract was up at the end of Endgame. But that had also been true multiple times before (his contract initially ended with Iron Man 3 and he's been reupping on a mostly movie-by-movie basis ever since), and was also true for many of the other cast members: Evans and Hemsworth's contracts technically ran out with Infinity War, but both re-signed for Endgame to see the story through. Oppositely, Scarlett's contract still had at least another movie on it, but that didn't mean Black Widow couldn't be killed off.

Given that this movie was always billed as the end of the last decade of the MCU, a decade that began with Iron Man, it was reasonable to think the movie could end with his death (though personally my long-held theory was that he'd retire into the sunset with Pepper, but I guess they ended up doing that already anyway!), but I think whatever you read or whoever you told "Robert Downey Jr. chooses NOT to renew his Marvel contract" wasn't accurate to begin with.

Sure, but I don't think Tony's snap really needed to happen though. I think they could have won the fight on their own, assuming they kept the gauntlet away from Thanos.

Well there's no way to really know that, and I'm not sure it's honoring Tony's sacrifice to suddenly re-invite a battle of that scale on the Earth again. Who knows how many more people would then die because the Avengers + friends have to fight it out to the last man? Hell, Tony could still end up dying, except this time it takes longer and there are more dead to get to that same outcome.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,493
Even using a single stone would have probably killed Tony. Normal humans can't use an infinity stone, which was made clear as early as guardians of the galaxy 1 when the collectors slave exploded on trying.
Tony might as well go all in and use all 6 for the instant effect since that's the case.
But someone like Thor could probably have handled using a single stone or Captain Marvel, Hulk, etc. Just saying, it never made much sense why they didn't try to use the stones independently.
 

godofcookery

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
950
I remembered that I did watch it!

I checked if it was up on any of the services I sub to and watching the cover made me remember, it's the one with BDSM-Diana coming to Earth and breaking Bat's rib, and well - SPOILERS, but I remember it. Pretty dark, iirc. The Owl guy lets himself die even if he had time to stop the bomb saying something like "it doesn't matter", Bats persuade the evil Flash gone good that he's the only one who can run fast enough to save the world knowing it will kill him (and thus saving Barry, who was volounteering).

Yes, I remember it. I wouldn't go as far as the Owlman does, but I understand his spleen.

Yes, well I didn't mean to imply your are a sociopath! But yes his general attitude upon discovering the multiverse is interesting. "It doesn't matter" is a great ending line in the context of the film.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,906
Portland, OR
Yes I get what you mean and I agree with all the stuff you said about her. And that's why all those people you mentioned were gathered in the lake honouring her. It was intimate and personal, all the people she cared about were there. They could have given it a bit more time but we were almost in the climax and I'm not sure it would have worked. They go back to her and Vision at the end of the movie too.

And, let me insist in this, "getting thrown off a cliff" is not how I would describe her death at all. There was a sacrifice to be made, and she chose and fought to be able to do it. I think her death adds to her character, even more than dying in battle in some random way (Tony was going to get the "big" death so any other would always be less important, if anything that it happened before allowed the movie to take some more time with it). And if she wasn't the one to die to get the soul stone, who would do it? It had to be one of the original 5 for it to have any weight I think (so realistically it could only be Hawkeye or her) and in my eyes she was the right choice, it fits her.

Edit: I will add that even though I think it all makes sense, it does rub me the wrong way that she couln't be there in the all woman Avengers shot, when she is the first and more important one. So sad and unfair :(
Yeah, I agree with this. She doesn't get "thrown off a cliff," she intentionally sacrifices herself so that others have a chance to undo the death that Thanos unleashed upon the universe. Her sacrifice is right up there with Tony's, the difference being that it happens away from the main battle. But it's still an intentional sacrifice that she chooses to make. That post makes it sound like she just gets pitched off a cliff and dies for no reason, which is really selling her character arc short. She's the first one, and really the only one, to say "I have to die so everyone else may live" (technically Hawkeye does as well in the same scene). Even Tony thinks he's got a chance of surviving snapping Thanos.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Even using a single stone would have probably killed Tony. Normal humans can't use an infinity stone, which was made clear as early as guardians of the galaxy 1 when the collectors slave exploded on trying.
Tony might as well go all in and use all 6 for the instant effect since that's the case.

Still, a scene with Tony slowly killing himself but absolutely wrecking Thanos in the process would have been amazing.
 

Cubo

Member
May 14, 2018
506
The Russo's in EW said:
"If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality," Joe explained. "The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?"

The brothers smile.

"Interesting question, right?" Joe said. "Maybe there's a story there. There's a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it's fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we're thinking."
Yes, he was frozen with the shield. The shield he returns is quite different than the one we know too, so there must be some story there.


I'd love if we could learn about that story and the Russo's seem to be hinting at it. Sam and Bucky's show?
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Zatt's phrased his argument in a way where (I guess he didn't mean to?) it sounded like he was saying Hulk was being literal. It's obviously figurative in the movie.
I didn't. Repeated several times after you got it wrong that I did not. And yet, you are still insisting I did. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, it seems. Can we move on now?
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,519
Yeah, hard to take those comments any other way. "Eat a salad" in particular.

Yeah, it's not like eating better is a valid suggestion to someone from depression to help them get better, coming straight from the characters mother who has nothing but love for him, as made clear by the entire talk they proceeding that comment.

Like I can imagine the argument for Rocket being an insensitive prick, because he is, but how you can misread what Frigga was saying to Thor given her character confuses me.
 

luca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,686
How did Cap get back to main universe?
Do we think he ported back to the Avengers facility one when everyone on time heist and went and hid in the forest?
Or to the forest platform before that scene when noone looking?
Or do you not need a platform to get back to main timeline, can just jump there like they jumped to 1970?

If that last one, why they need a platform?
When Cap travelled back to 1946 to live out a normal life with Peggy on that alternate timeline, he could have waited a day (or a day could have passed), and he comes back out the pad he entered, but one day after the day he left the others. And then travelled one day back in time to land on the bench with his gps coordinates. That's the theory Forbes ran with, and would work with the established rule set the movie sets up.

Oh, was that Norway? I kinda figured it was New Hampshire or something. Norway would definitely make more sense.
Yes. In-universe that is Tønsberg, where the Tesseract used to be hidden with the cultists at the church. It's also where Odin fought the Frost Giants.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
I didn't. Repeated several times after you got it wrong that I did not. And yet, you are still insisting I did. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, it seems. Can we move on now?
I actually had moved on, which is why I didn't reply to your other post.

Your phrased your post badly, two people understood you meant the opposite of what you were actually trying to say. You didn't mean to argue something but you ended up doing so.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
But someone like Thor could probably have handled using a single stone or Captain Marvel, Hulk, etc. Just saying, it never made much sense why they didn't try to use the stones independently.
The stones only grant "omnipotent" power to the bearer when paired together and used by one person, that has been explained since Infinity War. Thor would certainly survive using it, same for Hulk. Stark never would stand a chance, but yet that's the reality where Strange saw that the Avengers were able to defeat Thanos and revert what he has done.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,676
So is it pretty much assured that Guardians 3 will be the crew + Thor searching for Gamora? Or do we think that Gunn's script is different?
 

godofcookery

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
950
So is it pretty much assured that Guardians 3 will be the crew + Thor searching for Gamora? Or do we think that Gunn's script is different?

I would think so... Guardians 3 is now going to come out closer to the year Endgame takes place as well, so unless time passes in the MCU as it has been, he could still be with them. Else, he could just be a part of the crew and never have left.

edit: He is fatter than Quill now, so that should help his ego.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,493
The stones only grant "omnipotent" power to the bearer when paired together and used by one person, that has been explained since Infinity War. Thor would certainly survive using it, same for Hulk. Stark never would stand a chance, but yet that's the reality where Strange saw that the Avengers were able to defeat Thanos and revert what he has done.
I wasn;t referring to the omni-potent power, I was referring to using the stones independent of one another just like Thanos was using them for the majority of Infinity War. I get the whole "that's the reality that Strange saw" but that's a copout because the winning reality could have been whatever the writers decided it to be.

All 6 OG Avengers each getting a stone to battle fully Gauntlet-ed Thanos would have been sweet.
While cool, I was just questioning why someone like Thor wasn't like "Give me the Gauntlet" and used it similar to how Thanos used it in his fight on Titan before collecting all the stones. Certainly could have been feasible but wasn't thought of for whatever reason.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,477
So is it pretty much assured that Guardians 3 will be the crew + Thor searching for Gamora? Or do we think that Gunn's script is different?

I feel like at this point it's gotta be a prequel to Infinity War. That might be wishful thinking on my part, though - there's enough loose threads after the first two that adding Thor and 2014 Gamora to the mix would make things overstuffed or have stuff lost in the shuffle. Like, GOTG2 had no Thanos, no Infinity Stones, no real ties to the larger MCU. It was its own thing.

I'd like the OG Guardians all tied up before Endgame, chronologically. Then let Waititi direct Thor 4 with the Guardians as guests. Or maybe split the team... Thor, Rocket, Groot, Korg, and Miek for Asgardians of the Galaxy, with Peter, Drax, Mantis, and Nebula going after Gamora in GOTG3.

Then JaneThor and Valkyrie for the "official" Thor 4.
 

brinstar

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10,411
I wasn;t referring to the omni-potent power, I was referring to using the stones independent of one another just like Thanos was using them for the majority of Infinity War. I get the whole "that's the reality that Strange saw" but that's a copout because the winning reality could have been whatever the writers decided it to be.

While cool, I was just questioning why someone like Thor wasn't like "Give me the Gauntlet" and used it similar to how Thanos used it in his fight on Titan before collecting all the stones. Certainly could have been feasible but wasn't thought of for whatever reason.

Tony's gauntlet doesn't seem to work like that since Thanos had to rip out the power stone to use it against CM
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
IWhile cool, I was just questioning why someone like Thor wasn't like "Give me the Gauntlet" and used it similar to how Thanos used it in his fight on Titan before collecting all the stones. Certainly could have been feasible but wasn't thought of for whatever reason.
Simply putting on the Gauntlet hurts them. Hulk is in agony before the snap, they would be helpless for a while. There is a power surge in them, same thing happens to Thanos but he can take it better.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
I wasn;t referring to the omni-potent power, I was referring to using the stones independent of one another just like Thanos was using them for the majority of Infinity War. I get the whole "that's the reality that Strange saw" but that's a copout because the winning reality could have been whatever the writers decided it to be.

Oh, I agree, but at same time I think it's fitting that in the end the fight with Thanos was Iron Man, Thor and Cap, with Captain Marvel as well as a representative of the future.

I honestly think that's not the last that we will see of the infinity stones, and I think that planting seeds like the Guardians holding it together one infinity stone and Iron Man sacrificing himself using the six infinity stones might one day look as set up for something exactly like you are thinking. It might take a good while, but I think they will go there. Think the Illuminati in the comics.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Shuri is about to post torrent links and ask everyone not to download it and to definitely not seed.
 

JealousKenny

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
1,231
I wasn;t referring to the omni-potent power, I was referring to using the stones independent of one another just like Thanos was using them for the majority of Infinity War. I get the whole "that's the reality that Strange saw" but that's a copout because the winning reality could have been whatever the writers decided it to be.

While cool, I was just questioning why someone like Thor wasn't like "Give me the Gauntlet" and used it similar to how Thanos used it in his fight on Titan before collecting all the stones. Certainly could have been feasible but wasn't thought of for whatever reason.

Because something didn't happen doesn't mean it wasn't something that was thrown out during the writing stage.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,493
Tony's gauntlet doesn't seem to work like that since Thanos had to rip out the power stone to use it against CM
iirc, he rips out the power stone because the gauntlet has one of the those pieces on it preventing it from snapping as well as Carol holding his hand open.
Simply putting on the Gauntlet hurts them. Hulk is in agony before the snap, they would be helpless for a while. There is a power surge in them, same thing happens to Thanos but he can take it better.
The only reason I can think of it because the writers decided it would be less interesting. Which is ok, but not very practical. Small gripe but not a big deal.

Oh, I agree, but at same time I think it's fitting that in the end the fight with Thanos was Iron Man, Thor and Cap, with Captain Marvel as well as a representative of the future.

I honestly think that's not the last that we will see of the infinity stones, and I think that planting seeds like the Guardians holding it together one infinity stone and Iron Man sacrificing himself using the six infinity stones might one day look as set up for something exactly like you are thinking. It might take a good while, but I think they will go there. Think the Illuminati in the comics.

Oh I agree, I don't think you take the time over the last 10 years to build up the lore of the Infinity Stones and then just abandon them after Endgame. I'm sure they will play a part in some story in the future.
 
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More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,676
Do you think that's the last we'll see of Cap, or will he be in the MCU in a capacity like this?

uwm5s8p69rxmfhpk9ia2.png


latest
 

MajorBritten

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,080
When Cap travelled back to 1946 to live out a normal life with Peggy on that alternate timeline, he could have waited a day (or a day could have passed), and he comes back out the pad he entered, but one day after the day he left the others. And then travelled one day back in time to land on the bench with his gps coordinates. That's the theory Forbes ran with, and would work with the established rule set the movie sets up.

Are we sure its 1946 that he traveled back to and not 1970? My assumption was that Rogers took back all of the infinity stones and thors hammer back to each of the periods that they stole them from and did the tesseract last so he could stay with the Peggy that he was watching through the window when he was there with Tony.
 

Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,841
Now that I've seen the film, i wanted to find that 4 minute leak vid now just to see what actually was in it and it seems to have been snapped from the internet lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,213
Are we sure its 1946 that he traveled back to and not 1970? My assumption was that Rogers took back all of the infinity stones and thors hammer back to each of the periods that they stole them from and did the tesseract last so he could stay with the Peggy that he was watching through the window when he was there with Tony.
I hope he didn't steal her away from her husband then. (Someone said she mentions she's married in the 50's).

Personally I kind of assume that he goes back to somewhere in the early-mid 50's which fits better with how many years hes been in the present.
 
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AlteredBeast

Don't Watch the Tape!
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Oct 27, 2017
4,789
Does Dr. Strange telling Tony if he "tells him how it is supposed to go that it won't happen" mean that Tony wouldn't go through with it if he knew he was going to have to die to do it? Does that remove a little of the self-sacrifice arc of Tony Stark if that is true?

If the roles were changed and it was Cap asking the question, Dr. Strange would've probably just said, "You're going to put on the gauntlet and end up dying." Cap would have just said, "just tell me when to do it" with out hesitation.

Cap still the best :P
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,493
Are we sure its 1946 that he traveled back to and not 1970? My assumption was that Rogers took back all of the infinity stones and thors hammer back to each of the periods that they stole them from and did the tesseract last so he could stay with the Peggy that he was watching through the window when he was there with Tony.
I think people assume he went back further because by the 70s, Peggy was already married with children. Cap coming back at that time would have forced her to abandon her family. Him going back to 1946 means he was the husband and father to the children all along.
 

Anubis

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
I am so happy that Falcon will carry on the mantle of Cap.

I'm guessing this triggered a lot of racist people?
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Does Dr. Strange telling Tony if he "tells him how it is supposed to go that it won't happen" mean that Tony wouldn't go through with it if he knew he was going to have to die to do it? Does that remove a little of the self-sacrifice arc of Tony Stark if that is true?

No, it means that Tony would have positioned himself in such a way that he would have failed to pull off the sacrifice correctly. If he knew it was coming minutes in advance he might have messed something up.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,650
Does Dr. Strange telling Tony if he "tells him how it is supposed to go that it won't happen" mean that Tony wouldn't go through with it if he knew he was going to have to die to do it? Does that remove a little of the self-sacrifice arc of Tony Stark if that is true?

If the roles were changed and it was Cap asking the question, Dr. Strange would've probably just said, "You're going to put on the gauntlet and end up dying." Cap would have just said, "just tell me when to do it" with out hesitation.

Cap still the best :P
Iron Man is too smart for his own good (see: all the things that go wrong because he's trying to help, like Ultron).

If Strange said, the only way to win is for you to put on the Gauntlet and snap Thanos away (but you die), Tony would have tried some other clever thing, not because he didn't want to die but because he thinks he's smarter than Strange.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Are we sure its 1946 that he traveled back to and not 1970? My assumption was that Rogers took back all of the infinity stones and thors hammer back to each of the periods that they stole them from and did the tesseract last so he could stay with the Peggy that he was watching through the window when he was there with Tony.
Peggy was younger than her 1970s self by the end of the film. Also the location seems like mid fourties, early fifties. My theory is that Cap going back is a time travel conundrum. Peggy's husband was Steve all along, hence why Steve's portrait is still on her desk at SHIELD. Neither really "move on". I wonder if Steve told her about kissing her nephew tho.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,274
Anyways the Russos did a Q&A in China, some interesting answers (translation is a bit rough):

So, when Alt-universe frozen Cap wakes up he's going to have a wild and depressing time as he learns the love of his life actually got married to another version of himself and probably had a bunch of kids. Does that Cap then fight Thanos and jump to an alternate reality again to be with Peggy and it's a never ending loop of selfish Caps joining other Caps timelines to bang Peggy?
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,650
Peggy was younger than her 1970s self by the end of the film. Also the location seems like mid fourties, early fifties. My theory is that Cap going back is a time travel conundrum. Peggy's husband was Steve all along, hence why Steve's portrait is still on her desk at SHIELD. Neither really "move on". I wonder if Steve told her about kissing her nephew tho.
The way time travel works in this film, the only way Steve could have been Peggy's husband all along would be if "our" MCU wasn't the first one. Each Peggy would be married to a Steve Rogers from a timeline one "closer" to the universe "prime" (where she never married Steve), and then each Steve would go back in time and marry a Peggy from one universe "further" from the prime universe.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Iron Man is too smart for his own good (see: all the things that go wrong because he's trying to help, like Ultron).

If Strange said, the only way to win is for you to put on the Gauntlet and snap Thanos away (but you die), Tony would have tried some other clever thing, not because he didn't want to die but because he thinks he's smarter than Strange.
Bingo.

Tony, like his father, has trouble to put the greater good ahead of his own self interest. It's heartbreaking because now we know that Strange is in remorse and almost apologizing to Tony by the end of Infinity War.
 
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