Banjo-Kazooie announced for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,940
The difference lies in the sincerity of the attachment. No one is going to argue against the idea that people like Geno because he's got a certain visual appeal and I can't prove this one way or another but I'd bet the majority of people calling for Geno's inclusion have played his game and base their opinion on having experienced his story. What do people like Waluigi for? I can see the argument for liking him because he's terribly out of place and out of pace with the rest of the regular cast of characters. His idiosyncrasies make him stand out. But do people like him for his inherent character traits? Would he have as much attention if he was surrounded by selfish jerks and weirdos in his own games?

And this is without going into the fact that Waluigi's image is perpetually influenced by fan-created exaggerations that may or may not line up with Nintendo's own representation of the character, AKA memes y'all
I don't think Sakurai is capable of judging sincerity of fan requests. That's why merit also has to play in.

Waluigi does have earnest fans, because he DOES have quite the personality and has been present for nearly 20 years as a recurring sports game character. He's on the same ballpark as Daisy, really. And Daisy got in.

And I don't even want Waluigi in, because, like I said, he's just recurring filler. But to treat Geno as somehow a superior choice because his fans seem more honest is just laughable.
 

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
666
Awesome. Why cant MGS make a AAA batyynjo game with the intent of outdoing Mario odyssey?
Because nobody other than Nintendo takes 3D platformers seriously anymore. Look at the anger here if anyone suggest Naughty Dog or Insomniac ever return to the franchises that put them on the map, it would be "a waste of talent" (ugh)
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,954
Because nobody other than Nintendo takes 3D platformers seriously anymore. Look at the anger here if anyone suggest Naughty Dog or Insomniac ever return to the franchises that put them on the map, it would be "a waste of talent" (ugh)
I too hate this sentiment, but thank goodness right now Crash is in good hands.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,699
Because nobody other than Nintendo takes 3D platformers seriously anymore. Look at the anger here if anyone suggest Naughty Dog or Insomniac ever return to the franchises that put them on the map, it would be "a waste of talent" (ugh)
This is such a bullshit argument. This idea that “realistic” games are objectively better than more cartoony ones. I cringe when i hear people say that about naughty dog, like the first jak and daxter game was more enjoyable than uncharted 4
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
"You asked. we listen"

you didn't do shit
It actually wouldn't surprise me if they worked on some of the assets for Spiral Mountain. Banjo's house, for instance, looks like was pulled over as is from Nuts & Bolts. And we already know other studios have helped Bandai Namco with stage development, like Retro in with Jungle Hijinx in Smash 4.
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,867
I would argue Geno is as much of a meme as Waluigi. SMRPG was being treated as a meme back in the Brawl days, and it's not suddenly that it becomes legit support. He's no Ridley, or K. Rool, or Banjo, who are major recurring characters of significant Nintendo games.

In any case, Smash already has his meme rep, Duck Hunt. A far more deserving one too.

Geno simply does not have history and is a rather obscure pick. Sakurai is very much aware of his popularity, but there's a reason why, despite acquiring his rights, he hasn't made Geno playable.
No, Sakurai said he tried to make Geno playable in both Brawl and Smash 4. The Mii costume was a consolation prize for things not working out behind the scenes.

 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,007

Archduke Kong

Member
Feb 2, 2019
189
Eh, it happens.

K. Rool, Mega Man, Simon, Pit, etc.

Sometimes, all you need is a good legacy to get into Smash.
This. I could definitely see a new Banjo being on the table, it does seem like the other two picks so far were somehow being used to promote upcoming games coming out for the company (Joker with 5R and Scramble, DQ with DQ11). Still, I wouldn't expect it. Rare made their stance clear and I don't know I have faith any studio could develop it faithfully (yes that includes current era Rare). I could see a straight up port of the duology and maybe even Nuts n Bolts around the DLC release, but I don't know if a new game is in the cards.
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,305
No, Sakurai said he tried to make Geno playable in both Brawl and Smash 4. The Mii costume was a consolation prize for things not working out behind the scenes.

People mostly assume it didn't work out back then due to licensing issues, because at this point technical ones shouldn't be? I mean, I know nothing about coding in game development, but Sakurai has shown us he and his team can make a viable moveset out of any single character, and he has the license now, so I wonder what those issues were/are to keep preventing Geno in the game.
 
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Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,526
Orlando, FL
People mostly assume it didn't work out back then due to licensing issues, because at this point technical ones shouldn't be? I mean, I know nothing about coding in game development, but Sakurai has shown us he can make a viable moveset out of any single character, and he has the licensing now, so I wonder what those issues were/are to keep preventing Geno in the game.
Once upon a time I would've said that it's clearly SE holding them back and being stingy with what they hand out to Sakurai, but no, here's Hero with 4 different skins and a plethora of callbacks to the entire series.

I guess Sakurai just figured it'd be more exciting to include other guys over Geno at this point?
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,867
People mostly assume it didn't work out back then due to licensing issues, because at this point technical ones shouldn't be? I mean, I know nothing about coding in game development, but Sakurai has shown us he can make a viable moveset out of any single character, and he has the licensing now, so I wonder what those issues were/are to keep preventing Geno in the game.
The Geno Mii costume was removed in Ultimate, so something's going on, even though it doesn't make sense.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,007
Once upon a time I would've said that it's clearly SE holding them back and being stingy with what they hand out to Sakurai, but no, here's Hero with 4 different skins and a plethora of callbacks to the entire series.
It might just be a matter of Square not wanting to get involved at the time, and now that they do there's more important characters in the way like Cloud and Dragon Quest's Heroes.

If by some miracle another Square character gets in I think it'll be Geno.

The Geno Mii costume was removed in Ultimate, so something's going on, even though it doesn't make sense.
All third party costumes were removed in Ultimate.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,070
with Banjo in no one’s allowed to say “sakurai doesn’t listen to the fans” ever again

it’s illegal now
 

Baby Bird

Member
Nov 5, 2017
368
It's almost kind of weird how Banjo got an appearance in Smash before getting a new game of any kind.
It actually feels very reasonable if you think about it. Microsoft has been trying to revive classic franchises recently, in particular Rare's (Killer Instinct, Battletoads), but it is still risky business since there is no way to really measure if all the noise is real demand for a new game or just, well, the internet being the internet.

What is a great, zero risk way to somewhat measure demand? Put the character in Smash. There are many benefits: it generates good will for an entire new audience (Switch owners) of fans towards Microsoft. It also, allows MS to approximate the demand for the franchise by measuring how well the DLC sells, and at the same time generate more demand by raising awareness of the franchise. All of that while also making money for lending the character's rights.
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,867
All third party costumes were removed in Ultimate.
Ah, right, the Sonic ones were re-added with a price tag attached. It implies that Sakurai managed to strong-arm third parties into accepting the whole "Everyone Is Here" thing, but any other content needs to be bought. In the case, it makes sense that Dragon Quest takes priority over Geno.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,290
Houston, TX
Once upon a time I would've said that it's clearly SE holding them back and being stingy with what they hand out to Sakurai, but no, here's Hero with 4 different skins and a plethora of callbacks to the entire series.

I guess Sakurai just figured it'd be more exciting to include other guys over Geno at this point?
None of the third-party Mii Costumes were in the base game (Joker even brought back all of the Sega ones except Virtua Fighter). The remaining missing costumes are actually the basis of the Mii Costume Theory.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Once upon a time I would've said that it's clearly SE holding them back and being stingy with what they hand out to Sakurai, but no, here's Hero with 4 different skins and a plethora of callbacks to the entire series.

I guess Sakurai just figured it'd be more exciting to include other guys over Geno at this point?
I think Dragon Quest is a special case because Yuji Horii is the one that's mostly involved with all of that. Dragon Quest itself had also already crossed over with Nintendo in the past.
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,526
Orlando, FL
I think Dragon Quest is a special case because Yuji Horii is the one that's mostly involved with all of that. Dragon Quest itself had also already crossed over with Nintendo in the past.
Yeah, that was the other thought. DQ already having so many hands on it makes it harder for SE to try and lock it down. We may never know, but it'll always be hilarious that we get Cloud and the FF7 content in the state they're in when DQ gets a proper blowout.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,528
Yeah, that was the other thought. DQ already having so many hands on it makes it harder for SE to try and lock it down. We may never know, but it'll always be hilarious that we get Cloud and the FF7 content in the state they're in when DQ gets a proper blowout.
We also shouldn't hurry before praising DQ's inclusion. We still have no remixes confirmed; the two songs in the trailer are from the symphonic renditions of the DQXI soundtrack.

I'm actually afraid that all the spirits we might get will be Slime and the heroes in the Final Smash.
 

Mokujin

Member
Oct 31, 2017
287
That trailer was genius!!! And Banjo Kazooie design is awesome!! Hated the Nuts and Bolts redesign soooo much 😤
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,526
Orlando, FL
We also shouldn't hurry before praising DQ's inclusion. We still have no remixes confirmed; the two songs in the trailer are from the symphonic renditions of the DQXI soundtrack.

I'm actually afraid that all the spirits we might get will be Slime and the heroes in the Final Smash.
Given Sugiyama, no remixes may actually be the best case scenario, but you're right that we should probably wait and see what happens with spirits and the like.
 

timrtabor123

Member
Feb 11, 2019
243
This. I could definitely see a new Banjo being on the table, it does seem like the other two picks so far were somehow being used to promote upcoming games coming out for the company (Joker with 5R and Scramble, DQ with DQ11). Still, I wouldn't expect it. Rare made their stance clear and I don't know I have faith any studio could develop it faithfully (yes that includes current era Rare). I could see a straight up port of the duology and maybe even Nuts n Bolts around the DLC release, but I don't know if a new game is in the cards.
My theory is Double Fine is gonna do it at some point when their schedule clears. It fits there sensibilities as a dev quite well.
 

sahfarry

Member
Jan 16, 2019
181
Sorry family, him or Sub would be hype picks, but I just can't see it. I don't think Mortal Kombat games have sold in Japan in decades. Gore is also part of that franchise's identity, which can't be translated into Smash.
I agree it's probably not going to happen. But I'm still gonna hope.

Little Mac is completely unknown in Japan as well. When asked about him, Japanese players knew him as "the guy from Captain Rainbow". Mike Tyson... Boxing as sport in general has always been a US thing. On the other hand, Scorpion is not a first party character.

People ask: there are 2 DLC chars left - how are they gonna top Banjo-Kazooie??? The last 2 have to be even wilder! Well,, this is how you'd do it. At least for Americans.

Gore is a big issue too. Not that it couldn't be toned down, but it'd just be difficult to do that. Scorpion's most famous move is impaling you with a spear and pulling you towards him. That's brutal. Ridley does do something similar, though, as he was meant to be brutal in a similar way. Nintendo could always remove the blood, just like in the SNES days.

Anyway, this post is a mess. I just argued both for and against Scorpion and nothing was accomplished. Either way, I'm still gonna hope bc I dont really care and all my Nintendo faves are in anyway.
 

jaggies

Member
Oct 30, 2017
671
If by some miracle another Square character gets in I think it'll be Geno.
Geno strikes me as the sort of “left-field surprise” character you’d include to round out the roster in the base game, not a character you’d try to sell separately for $5.99.

If we’re talking paid DLC, I think they’d choose Sora over Geno. Especially if Kingdom Hearts III S was on the way, and there’s little reason to believe it isn’t.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,007
Geno strikes me as the sort of “left-field surprise” character you’d include to round out the roster in the base game, not a character you’d try to sell separately for $5.99.

If we’re talking paid DLC, I think they’d choose Sora over Geno. Especially if Kingdom Hearts III S was on the way, and there’s little reason to believe it isn’t.
Sora is owned by Disney.
 

jaggies

Member
Oct 30, 2017
671
As in he's not a Square character and is instead owned by a megaconglomerate.
And Banjo-Kazooie is owned by Nintendo’s direct competitor. And yet, that happened!

Disney is willing to put Mickey Mouse in a weird crossover anime video game; I don’t think putting a character exclusive to that video game in a different crossover game would somehow be a bridge too far. Do you really think Disney is going to hold Sora more sacred than Mickey Mouse?

It’s pretty bizarre to say “Sora is Disney, next” and just shut down that discussion in a world where Kingdom Hearts, y’know, exists. (And is pretty popular, to boot.)