If this was a thread in r/amitheasshole , the answer would ordinary be everyone sucks in this situation. Sure trump caused it, but he incompetence of not even having a no fly area and just shooting down a plane is staggering
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Canadian CEO Blames Trump for downed Iranian Airliner
- Thread starter JustinBailey
- Start date
That orange fuck still doesn't have a clear cut reason to attack a Iranan General on Iraqi soil after all this time. He couldn't explain it to both chambers and people still defending his bullshit. His hands have blood since his inability to be a leader led to this bullshit.
When the U.S. shot down that Iranian flight 655 in 1983, Iran was stirring up serious trouble in the Straight of Hormuz, harassing oil tankers and a U.S. Navy helicopter with their gunboats. The USS Vincennes, an Aegis Cruiser, fired a couple of Standard Missiles at what they thought was an Irainian F-14. Anyway, that was still entirely the fault of the U.S. and to blame Iran for stirring up shit was just an excuse.
Iran must pay compensation, accept responsibility and apologise sincerely, cooperate with investigations and be open, and do what they can to ameliorate a tragedy they can never make right. Because they are responsible. They should have grounded all flights, at least.
Trump is responsible too. Without him, that plane is safe. And he knew, because he was warned, that these are the consequences of escalation from assassinating the No. 2 in Iran's Government. Iran was always going to go to the highest level of alert where things like this tragedy become a very real and knowable risk. The fact he did all this to distract from his own crimes only makes it worse.
Responsibility isn't binary. It's never one thing or another. The world is complicated. Which is why you don't drone-strike murder people out of the blue without even informing most of your own Government, then threaten more war crimes, and expect everything to be peaceful and safe. Trump shares blame and fuck anyone who covers for him on this. He knew. He fucking knew this kind of collateral damage, this kind of loss of life was a possibility, and he didn't care. He knew open war was a possibility and he didn't care.
The reason it matters that Trump is to blame too is that he needs to be removed from power now. Because he makes decisions like this. How are you going to deal with him if you never hold him responsible for his own actions?
Trump is responsible too. Without him, that plane is safe. And he knew, because he was warned, that these are the consequences of escalation from assassinating the No. 2 in Iran's Government. Iran was always going to go to the highest level of alert where things like this tragedy become a very real and knowable risk. The fact he did all this to distract from his own crimes only makes it worse.
Responsibility isn't binary. It's never one thing or another. The world is complicated. Which is why you don't drone-strike murder people out of the blue without even informing most of your own Government, then threaten more war crimes, and expect everything to be peaceful and safe. Trump shares blame and fuck anyone who covers for him on this. He knew. He fucking knew this kind of collateral damage, this kind of loss of life was a possibility, and he didn't care. He knew open war was a possibility and he didn't care.
The reason it matters that Trump is to blame too is that he needs to be removed from power now. Because he makes decisions like this. How are you going to deal with him if you never hold him responsible for his own actions?
Yes, the "action" of pushing a button is 100% on Iran. Trump did not personally walk into an Iranian SAM site and fire the missile himself.
The greater context of why their finger was on the trigger is not. How is this so fucking hard to understand.
Communities across Canada have been devastated by this tragedy. There's a lot to be angry about.
Yes Iran is directly to blame, but Americans who back up and take no blame are getting really annoying. America's war mongering was definitely a factor, and now their finger pointings at Iran to further justify their war ambitions are equally annoying. The United States has been losing allies at a steady pace, and they continue to do so.
Yes Iran is directly to blame, but Americans who back up and take no blame are getting really annoying. America's war mongering was definitely a factor, and now their finger pointings at Iran to further justify their war ambitions are equally annoying. The United States has been losing allies at a steady pace, and they continue to do so.
So what I'm understanding from this is that happened in isolation to the escalation with Iran. It would have happened regardless. There's no holes in this reasoning at all.
When you dole out blame and leave Iran completely blameless that doesn't seem too different from a defense of Iran.
Would it have happened without Trump's escalation? No. If Iran's military were better would it have happened even with the escalation? No. Would Trump's escalation have happened if the contractor hadn't been killed? Any assignment of blame that doesn't pin at least 80% of it on Iran is misguided.
Literally no one thinks Iran is blameless. This is the worst kind of strawman.
Yet everyone glosses over the fact Iran made sure of no casualties in its strike against the bases in Iraq.
No one gives a fuck about the Iranian people. it's about having a bone to pick with Trump. Look at the thread where people in Iran protested against the government and started tearing Solemani pictures. Yet, it had like 30 posts and most of them are "fuck Trump"
No one gives a fuck about the Iranian people. it's about having a bone to pick with Trump. Look at the thread where people in Iran protested against the government and started tearing Solemani pictures. Yet, it had like 30 posts and most of them are "fuck Trump"
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The CEO blames the US without blaming Iran as do many posters. If a poster says only "this is on Trump" or "this is the US's fault" then why should we assume that they also hold Iran at fault.
If they say "this is partially the fault of the US" then I agree wholeheartedly. Many don't, however, and I think it's fair game to call them on letting Iran completely off the hook which is both too soft on Iran but also oddly condescending (as if you don't expect them not to shoot down planes that leave from their capital's airport).
His tweets literally refer to Iran as a dangerous nation that the world was trying its best to deal with before Trump decided to blow it all up. Again, trying to equate "blame Trump" with "absolving Iran" is the biggest kind of bullshit.
Edit: I'm just going to assume you didn't actually read the tweets themselves.
What about the war mongering of Iran in the Middle East? There is a reason that almost no country in the Middle East wants to do anything with Iran. They are bssically isolated. That's why Isreal has informal permission to do what they need to do against Iran and the rest of the countries just look away.
The US is certainly not blameless in the mess they helped create in the region for decades but Iran is way worse.
What was an Iranian General doing in Iraq? Nothing good for sure. He knew he wasnt safe and he knew it. Every country was gunning for him.
Also, Iran just slaughtered hundreds to thousands of their own people in protests last year.
The US is certainly not blameless in the mess they helped create in the region for decades but Iran is way worse.
What was an Iranian General doing in Iraq? Nothing good for sure. He knew he wasnt safe and he knew it. Every country was gunning for him.
Also, Iran just slaughtered hundreds to thousands of their own people in protests last year.
This is pretty much how I see it too. We can't always have situations dictated to each other. The plane was shot down by Iran in their own country, with what I assume other civilian planes around.
Assume away. I read them and saw nothing positive about Iran but no blame for being this incident.
The US escalated tensions.
Iran kept planes flying.
They fired the missile(s) that brought the plane down.
They tried to cover up that they had done so
This guy puts more blame on the US than Iran. That seems dumb to me.
If it was a couple days ago I'd have maybe disagreed, but then some of those posters started defending the assassination...
Some people have set a conveniently arbitrary start point for all of this at the killing of Soleimani. Trump is a dumbass, but he didn't force Iran to make a stupid decision like not shutting down commercial flights prior to a missile strike. Those idiots are 100 percent responsible for their own ineptitude. There's fog of war and collateral damage, and then there's just straight up incompetence. This was incompetence. Their shameful coverup after the fact only compounds it.
Iran is to blame 100% for shooting down the plane and deserve to be held responsible . Trump and America are also to blame for escalating shit stupidly. You see both can be blamed.
This is a very great post.
This is a very great post.
Iran deserves pretty much all the blame for this, there is no reason why that plane should have been shot down, it's pure incompetence and there needs to repercussions for this action(as well as reparations awarded to the affected families). That said, the moron in the White House started this chain of events, knowing full well that his actions will lead to more loss of life American or otherwise. I can't help but shake the feeling that the 176 lives that were lost in that crash would still be with us if Trump hadn't taken the reckless actions that he did.
Only because you are directly fixated on the action as being the sole portion where blame can be assigned.
Literally no one but Iran can be blamed for the "action" of shooting a plane down. It was their military, with their SAM sites, shooting a plane in their airspace.
None of that is being debated, so none of it needs repeating.
But to put us in this scenario, where Iran was on high alert and ready to shoot aircraft down, it had to start somewhere. I'm sure if you want you can just go back in time far enough to really see who "started" it, but in the now, the situation was tense but manageable, and Trump decided, without cause, to push it to the point where this could happen.
That's why Canadians want Trump to shoulder the blame, because we literally would not be having this discussion without him. And trying to imply that if we don't shit on Iran literally every waking second of our lives we're absolving them of blame is incredibly disingenuous.
I'm not one of the posters that thinks that the US has no blame. Killing Soleimani was a highly escalatory step and it created the environment for this type of mistake to happen. I think if someone is doling out blame, however, they should make it clear that Iran is primarily to blame for shooting down the plane while still putting some responsibility on the US for creating the environment in which that was more likely. There are a ton of posters on here who have posts that start and stop with blame on the US as if Iran shouldn't be held to any sort of expectation or standard. It's very hard for me to see the logic in those posts.
A lot of people struggle with complexity and critical thinking. It's cultural.
What kind of no-logic-having bullshit is this post? Iran is automatically at fault for everything everyone says then?
Its because their discussing blame in a context specific way.
If i write a post blaming Trump for escalating this conflict, I'm not absolving Iran of their actions when I don't mention them, because I (and many others) aren't talking about their portion in this. Because their portion isn't in debate. Trump, and everyone who didn't either push back or resign at his orders, is to blame for this immediate escalation. They are directly responsible for getting us into this situation. That is 100% on them.
If you think people are "actually" absolving Iran of all blame, point them out. Show examples. Tell them their wrong. But implying those who aren't actively berating Iran are absolving them of blame isnt the way to do it.
I bite my tongue a lot around here when I see stupid shit like this. But get some fucking perspective.
I wanted to say this but I didn't want to get piled on. Its definitely worrying as anything could still happen.
Sure, if you view it in a vacuum and ignore the fact that Iran have also been escalating over the last 12 months.
Trump is an absolute moron that shouldn't have added to destabilizing the region with the order to execute, however Iran have been trying to exert dominance recently since the US removal from JCPOA.
Both parties are to blame, this tragedy doesn't take place without the actions of the other.
You need the smoothest of brains to find any fault in the logic that when the US escalates a tense situation with violence, the US shares some of the blame for ALL the violence that follows.
Here we go again. We're not absolving Iran of the situation. Iran fucked up big time.
But things also don't happen in a vacuum. Trump just assassinated one of their top generals via airstrike - Which, for the record, we are also NOT saying that the general is a saint, far from it!! But you also CANNNOT just airstrike another country's top staff member and expect there to be no consequences! Not to mention that Trump continued to threaten that there would be the possibility of further action taken against them. With tensions so high, people will start to make colossal mistakes.
This tragedy could have been avoided if Iran had been more coordinated... And maybe they would have been, had they not felt so threatened. Saying the US had absolutely nothing to do with this is being ignorant of what's been happening the past few weeks.
But things also don't happen in a vacuum. Trump just assassinated one of their top generals via airstrike - Which, for the record, we are also NOT saying that the general is a saint, far from it!! But you also CANNNOT just airstrike another country's top staff member and expect there to be no consequences! Not to mention that Trump continued to threaten that there would be the possibility of further action taken against them. With tensions so high, people will start to make colossal mistakes.
This tragedy could have been avoided if Iran had been more coordinated... And maybe they would have been, had they not felt so threatened. Saying the US had absolutely nothing to do with this is being ignorant of what's been happening the past few weeks.
I have seen many Redditors on the Canadian Subthreads saying those who oppose Trump are "left-wing extremists". It's not just isolated (unless there are bots at work).
What the fuck is this response? What the fuck are you talking about?
Unless Iran is randomly shooting down passenger planes, how can you not see this is partially US/Trumps fault as well?
Trump gave them a loaded gun (a reason to fight back). They shot that gun back (retaliation missiles) and accidentally shot their neighbor.
Both are to blame. Just because someone else shot the gun doesn't absolve the person who handed it to them in the first place.
And he has yet to prove there was an immediate danger.
Both are to blame. Just because someone else shot the gun doesn't absolve the person who handed it to them in the first place.
And he has yet to prove there was an immediate danger.
None of this would have happened of the US (fucking again) hadn't played judge, jury and executioner and bombed another countries general at a fucking international airport.
Trump & Co are very much at fault here.
I made this point in the other thread.
You would think blame was a limited resource the way people are twisting themselves in knots to absolve Trump of any responsibility.
In the end, when America needlessly escalates a situation, we all suffer. When Trump assassinated this dude, we all worried there were going to be casualties. Now that we have them, suddenly it has nothing to do with Trump.
Fucking joke.
In addition, I feel like some posters have also forgotten that Trump promised to attack dozens of cultural sites if Iran even considered retaliation. Trump's actions of escalation weren't limited to the assassination.
