Imagine you bring your car to a gas station but you can't use their gas because the nozzle only works at XYZ company and your car uses ABC company's nozzle.
CNBC: GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford in leveraging the EV leader's tech; will replace CCS with NACS in US EVs starting in 2025
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Imagine you bring your car to a gas station but you can't use their gas because the nozzle only works at XYZ company and your car uses ABC company's nozzle.
Huge news, really surprised at that but happy the superior standard won out. Anyone who's used both can easily tell you how much better NACS is.
Yeah, the other obvious example has been the repeated handouts we have given to telecom companies for broadband expansion. We have repeatedly given regional monopoly telecoms money to expand rural broadband, and yet studies have shown that the money has had little impact.
It has basically worked like this:
Before the handout, internally: "We plan to expand to broadband to 1,500 homes in this region. It will cost $1,000,000."
After the handout of half a million, publicly: "We plan to expand broadband to 1,500 homes in this region. It will cost $500,000. Also our profit is up $500,000."
The government doesn't audit these companies' historical plans to understand what they intended to do before or after the handouts. There's little accountability. This can be fine when you're trying to create a new market of companies or subsidize a new technology. It doesn't work well, however, when you simply cut costs for an established monopoly or oligopoly.
Isn't the NACS format is an open standard and any company can create chargers with it? This would just create immediate access to some of the best charging stations for more EV's.
This shouldn't create a monopoly where cars can only use super charging stations. It seems other charging networks are now looking to expand their offerings to include NACS as an option to charge with.
I'm a huge proponent of EVs and I hate this, personally.
I get it, but I hate it. There's ways to solve some of the issues but as of today:
- Tesla's price per kilowatt is ridiculous.
- Charging an 800v car on Tesla's network just sucks. This will ideally be fixed in v4 but how long before those are everywhere?
- My opinion, but this is a great way to just make everyone stop and reconsider buying or investing in EVs right now. People will just wait (or buy a Tesla, which is what Telsa actually wants).
If Tesla was actually concerned with EV adoption and not their bottom line they would have done what they did in Europe.
100%. I can already picture several people I know saying "Well I was interested in buying an EV, but they need to work out the charging standard", as yet another move-the-goal-post move, and a refusal to recognize that you 99% of the time charge at home anyways, and the availability of charging networks only matters on very long distance roadtrips.
I'm not loving this as a Tesla owner. Tesla has raised prices on Superchargers. I don't want them to create a monopoly where the control price.
The unfortunate narrative around CCS is self inflicted but literally anyone other than EA needed to build it out. CCS, as a standard, is fine (and has been better in some key areas (voltage) than the Tesla standard).
We're finally getting to a point where the CCS network doesn't have to be synonymous with Electrify America and some good competition and improvements are in the pipe so of course nows the time to make everyone stop and question their investments.
GM's CEO statement literally says 'Hey we *were* going to spend 750 million dollars building out an EV network (based on CCS that anyone can use) and now we just saved $400 million! Great for GM, bad for consumers or anyone that wanted to see more networks.
Considering how restrictive US import laws are, that wont be an issue for normal people. Though it would be for others outside the US
I'm sure this is the future. Though you're right that I'm surprised we haven't seen someone try to establish themselves as the place to go. Gas stations already make all their money on the stuff inside, and EV drivers that have to wait around longer are the perfect person to sell stuff to.
I'm a Tesla owner and I love this. You have to look at the flipside. It means at some point, all other charging networks will be NACS as well, that means I can charge my Tesla anywhere and not just at Tesla Superchargers. I mean suddenly all charging networks have the ability to serve all the Tesla's driving around. Previously, I just ignored them because I didn't want to use an adapter.
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Tesla will always and has always been able to control the price of their supercharger stations they own them.
They can't control the price of any other station that has NACS plugs.
If 7/11 wants to add NACS to their DC chargers at their gas stations, they can charge whatever they want. Same goes for EVgo(they even have NACS plugs already at select stations), Electrify America, etc.
All this does is make a more constant and better plug across electric vehicles, no different than the current standardized gas station nozzle. It has nothing to do with prices.
Tesla supercharger near you cost too much per kWh? Use another stations charger to save a few cents. Just like everyone does with their gas cars, and just like I do currently on road trips with my M3.
That's easier said than done. I live in the Bay Area where there's a lot of chargers. That's still not enough. Supercharger are the most efficient way to charge if you don't own a home.
It's easy to see that because Musk is Musk, Tesla had always invited automakers to use their charger port, no?
J-1772 CCS has really not been it and the market was going to have to move away from it regardless.
They could have moved to the EU CCS standard, but why do that when there are already 1,000,000,000 (exaggeration) Tesla charging stations in the US and Canada already?
Only a small subset at this time do.. those with the Magic Dock. This decision by GM does make it seem that Magic Docks are on their way out (even before they were really rolled out in numbers).
With one port standard, the hope is that would create actual competition.
I responded to you saying " I don't want them to create a monopoly where they control price".
It's not a monopoly. They already control the price of their stations, and you already pay whatever they want you to pay when you pull up and plug in.
If nobody else is stepping up in your area to create more stations with NACS/CCS1, and giving the Bay Area folks more options you'll continue to be screwed by Teslas prices without the competition.
The infrastructure will and has to improve, just like it did over time with ICE vehicles. Consumers want more options not less
If by 'always invited' you mean it was proprietary until November of 2022 (7 months ago) then, sure. Always.
How was CCS not it? It's literally it. Europe (including Tesla) have been chugging along just fine with the Type 2 CCS connector which is just a modified AC input. The DC side is the same.
They recently opened it up. They have fitted certain charging stalls with CCS I believe, or maybe J1772. Either way you use the Tesla app to charge. It's a little weird right now because Superchargers are designed for Teslas which have a uniform design (plug port at the driver side rear), whereas other manufacturers put them in other locations, but they're working on this with longer cables and such.
Anyway this is good news. NACS is way better than CCS which is kind of clunky. Looking forward to more charging competition now that things seem to be standardizing. However, it remains to be seen if ANYONE can create a reliable network other than Tesla, Electrify America is known to be unreliable as heck.
According to this post CCS2 is way better than NACS:
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
Given that NACS lacks AC 3-phase support, it seems like this would put the US infrastructure behind that of Europe if we adopt NACS.
This is great news. First Ford goes to NACS and now GM follows.
So Europe will be CCS2 and the US will be NACS. Finally we'll have a standard EV plug for the US, it's about time.
I expect we'll see other charging networks like Chargepoint and even Electrify America will likely switch to the NACS plug in the near future, or at least the Tesla Magic Dock setup. Once all US charging networks are on NACS then we'll have EV charging competition on a level playing field, and THAT is great for ALL US EV owners. :)
You can get an adapter, they are already on the market. Ford will be shipping them to current Ford EV owners next year apparently.
So Europe will be CCS2 and the US will be NACS. Finally we'll have a standard EV plug for the US, it's about time.
I expect we'll see other charging networks like Chargepoint and even Electrify America will likely switch to the NACS plug in the near future, or at least the Tesla Magic Dock setup. Once all US charging networks are on NACS then we'll have EV charging competition on a level playing field, and THAT is great for ALL US EV owners. :)
You can get an adapter, they are already on the market. Ford will be shipping them to current Ford EV owners next year apparently.
This wasn't a thing anyway. Even though "CCS" is used in the US and Europe, they are different and incompatible. The top half of the CCS1 plug used in the US uses a J1772 connector for AC and the CCS2 plug used in Europe uses a Mennekes connector on top for AC.
According to this post CCS2 is way better than NACS:
Reddit - Dive into anything
Given that NACS lacks AC 3-phase support, it seems like this would put the US infrastructure behind that of Europe if we adopt NACS.
CCS1 also has no 3-phase AC support because J1772 has no 3-phase AC support. Basically only commercial buildings use 3-phase AC as far as I know, so I guess it wasn't a priority when J1772 was developed.
I would put the odds of adopting CCS2 in North America at approximately zero because then you do away with the only advantage CCS1 has - it has a J1772 port built in so you don't need an adapter or a separate port for J1772 charging, which has been ubiquitous to this point. Although to be honest I wouldn't shed a tear if J1772 also dies in favor of NACS...
I don't think the adapters exist from NACS -> CCS yet. Only the other way around, which is why the magic dock was so interesting.
I find it annoying that this decision is being made now, but maybe it had to be the IRA incentives to make things happen. I'd buy a Model Y if it was a little smaller and had sensors/rear traffic alerts, but as it stands we'll be committing to a CCS car when my Bolt lease is up and I don't want the adapter situation to suck.
From experience though, I had two pretty flawless charging sessions with my rental Tesla, and have had loads of issues with CCS chargers over the past three years. This is probably the fastest way to a decent network and I think the connector is more usable
As a non tesla owner, it's often a struggle to find a non tesla charging station so it's hard to feel your pain when your charges clearly dominate. Best is when we have a charge available on a location to get there and we got a whopping 2 charges available and of course in use, while tesla has a whole fleet of charges available to use in the same spot.
246 after close. I was considering unloading some at 200 and then 225, but not anymore 😮
So….. what happeneds with my 2023 Mach E charger in 2025 and beyond?
Do I need an adapter or will my current port stil work cause I don't like the thought my network will "shrink" if I'm two years too early
Do I need an adapter or will my current port stil work cause I don't like the thought my network will "shrink" if I'm two years too early
This is the exact reason I have not considered an EV in my last car purchase. I haven't even seen any charging stations near where I live, I'm sure there are probably some I haven't noticed, I rent an apartment so it would be impossible for me to charge at home. When I see charging stations on every corner like gas stations, then I'll jump in.
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I'm hopeful manufacturers will work on some adapters. I know I can get a Tesla to J1772 adapter from Lectron, but it won't work at superchargers.
I'm not too worried, though, as I mostly use my EV for local travel and just charge at home
Having more than one charging standard on a big continent was always dumb. Tesla started first, invested heavily before all others, and they have most easy to use and reliable charging network.
EU forced their own charging standard before Tesla had chance to have a say, so everyone in Europe already have a streamlined experience.
EU forced their own charging standard before Tesla had chance to have a say, so everyone in Europe already have a streamlined experience.
Never thought I'd see the day, bit very happy to see the superior standard for user experience win out in North America it seems.
For sure, also much much better for handicapped and elderly people. CCS is proven to be a poor design for them based on the weight and clunky designs. Switching to NACS has basically no downsides and so many upsides.
Yeah, the 1.5 year delay to put NACS on their vehicles is odd. Ford is doing it just 6 months from now.
Literally every Tesla Supercharger I've seen near me is in the parking lot of a Wawa, so I presume at least they are making a deal with Tesla for that and getting some kind of payback for that.
Casey's, a Midwest gas station chain with a kitchen like this, has been adding Tesla superchargers to their lots the past year or two. Very nice because you can order ahead on the app, get there plug in. And then eat a pizza while you wait
From a purely technical point of view, lack of 3 phase AC support is a bit of a downer. Though I guess irrelevant for the US.
Yep, here in PA and along lots of the east coast many Tesla superchargers are at either Wawa or Sheetz gas stations. I like it, very convenient for road trips.
it won't - CCS2 is already a standard and is mandated by law. Tesla adopted it when they brought out the model 3.
I think Ford said they'll ship or make available adapters for existing owners to use tesla chargers. So in theory you can use tesla chargers before the new cars even come out. And they'll also make CCS adapters available so those new NACs cars can still use EA stations etc.
I think there's a misunderstanding here.
Now, multiple companies will compete with Tesla to create NACS charging stations and drive prices down.
Well, they're stuck there for 20-30 minutes; it's likely they already did their business inside and are just wanting some chill time
I'm there every day, never seen it. I'm sure it happens obviously but it's not the norm. They back their car in and just chill until they are charged up and leave. Could also be a class thing with rich people not wanting to go in to wawa.
Exactly. Now that all US chargers will (eventually) be NACS, it will (eventually) allow for competitive charging pricing, which will drive the cost of supercharging down for all in the US.
This is the first / second step towards a universal, standard, affordable charging environment for all EV's in the US. It's great forward looking news.
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Talking about price competition but now that third party EV chargers need to compete with the Supercharger Network directly, hopefully there is a reliability competition. Have heard nightmares about non-Supercharger Network charging networks.